Hot Rod cam dyno results

[SirKnightTG]

I called John last week and he told me to first try reloading the stock tune, unplug the battery for a while (I did for 30 min) then re-load the tune. I tried that and nothing changed. I sent John an email and never heard back so I just need to call again. I got through very quickly the last time I called. He also told me that if the problems were still there, they'd write up a whole new tune file for me to try. Maybe mine was corrupted when passing through the internets tubes. Or my car is just weird, I don't know.

I also tried to do a datalog but I could not get it to work. I need to see if there's a detailed write up on doing that b/c I guess I'm doing it wrong.

 

[marcspaz]

To the OP... great numbers. Esp on a Mustang dyno. Right on par.

Are these cams turbo friendly?

Exactly how much torque did you lose? Do you have a before and after dyno sheet to post? Thanks for the info.

A local shop put these cams in a car with a twin screw supercharger on 8 PSI and 40 more HP.

About time someone posted up some truth regarding these cams. Those are some really good numbers for NSR. Waaaaay to much B.S. has been spewed on forums about these cams.

I think they are right on track for what is claimed. 18 to 32 rwhp based on what other mods you have. I think the "sound only" rep is because most people by HotRod, Thumpers, and BBR's because of the sound and the power, compared to something like the Comp Cams NSR. The Comps make great power (32/18 on my car), but sound stock.

the real question is, what are they like in rush hour traffic? thats what i need to know

They are like stock if the car is tuned correctly.

Yeah I'm sure they could. I may give the email tunes a little more chance before I spend the $500 on a dyno tune.

For me, my BBR tune can't hold the idle so it jumps from 400 to 950, on start up it does not want to hold idle either instead it wants to fall < 500 and die and of course, the flashing O/D light when coasting slow (15-20 mph). I REALLY hate that issue. What's worse is I don't know 100% why the hell it's doing it. I have some theories from others but I can't make much sense of them myself. Of course my Brenspeed tune does it too and it seems they don't know why. Very frustrating. My Bama tune does not, but it has other issues that's annoying (like weaker over-all performance and VERY high start up RPMs which is annoying).

The O/D light issue is a very, very easy thing for your tuner to fix. just tel him about it. (and on my car it came with a shifting problem too)

The idle issue is because you need to clear the STFT tables. Disconnect the battery for 10-15 minutes after that car is at running temp and follow the directions in your onwers manual about retraining the ECU after replacing the battery.

 

[SirKnightTG]

The O/D light issue is a very, very easy thing for your tuner to fix. just tel him about it. (and on my car it came with a shifting problem too)

The idle issue is because you need to clear the STFT tables. Disconnect the battery for 10-15 minutes after that car is at running temp and follow the directions in your onwers manual about retraining the ECU after replacing the battery.

If only Brenspeed knew what the fix was. I'm also curious myself what the fix actually is and why. Since I'm a software engineer this kind of thing is bugging the hell out of me.

The weird thing is the idle issue does not happen and has never happened with my Brenspeed tune. My bama tune did it and I finally got an update from Doug after like 5 tries and it stopped. The other day when I was trying the BBR tune again, after I found it still did not work right I put the Brenspeed tune in and bam the idle issues were no more. That's why I've been thinking it's a tune thing.

 

[marcspaz]

If only Brenspeed knew what the fix was. I'm also curious myself what the fix actually is and why. Since I'm a software engineer this kind of thing is bugging the hell out of me.

The weird thing is the idle issue does not happen and has never happened with my Brenspeed tune. My bama tune did it and I finally got an update from Doug after like 5 tries and it stopped. The other day when I was trying the BBR tune again, after I found it still did not work right I put the Brenspeed tune in and bam the idle issues were no more. That's why I've been thinking it's a tune thing.

Hmmm, I am surprised BrenSpeed doesn't know how to fix that O/D light issue. I have a friend who is a tuner who shared with me, but I don't want to blast trade secrets out to the world.

If you can get the mako file (.mtf) and email it to me, I will fix it for you.

 

[SirKnightTG]

Well if you can't say what the fix in the tune is, can you at least tell me what is physically going on in the car that's causing this? Is it like one member on here says that somehow it thinks the torque converter is spinning faster than the engine? Is it related to lower than stock vacuum? It just sucks that I can't know what is going on in my car. It's just unacceptable IMO.

 

[marcspaz]

Well if you can't say what the fix in the tune is, can you at least tell me what is physically going on in the car that's causing this? Is it like one member on here says that somehow it thinks the torque converter is spinning faster than the engine? Is it related to lower than stock vacuum? It just sucks that I can't know what is going on in my car. It's just unacceptable IMO.

It's not that the computer thinks the TC is spinning faster, its a matter of the pulsing of the cams vs. the TC trying to spin the motor during decel and coasting. The computer think something is broken, causing lurching. However, as you see, there is no lurching.

Like I said, if BrenSpeed can't fix it, email it to me and I will. It's not a problem.

 

[SirKnightTG]

Cool, that's just what I was looking for. This has been bugging me for MONTHS. The tuning aspect of it I'm not worried about and if people want to keep that a secret that's fine I don't care. Since I don't do my own tuning at this time the actual fix in the tune does not concern me, I just wanted to know the why behind the trans fault and this is exactly what I was looking for. I could not understand why the loping would confuse the trans, I thought maybe a vacuum thing, but now I see.

So my brenspeed tune is in the file format that Live Load wants which is .cef but I think that format is protected and no one can read that. So if I can request the .mtf format of my tune from Brenspeed then I'll send it to you.

The first time I ran my BBR tune it flashed the O/D light, so I'm un-sure if it has this fix, whatever it is, but maybe it only did it b/c the STFT is not right for it so with the bouncing-all-over-the-place idle is what caused it. I still find it weird that my Brenspeed tune has no idle issues but the moment I load the BBR tune it does. My Bama tune did have those issues too until Doug revised it like 5+ times, heh. Maybe the STFT data is "setup" for my Brenspeed tune and it's incompatible with my BBR one? Is there any sense to that? I'll try over the weekend since it'll not be raining then to reset the STFT. It's too bad unplugging the bat for 30 min does not do that, apparently it takes more than that.

Yesterday I went to load in one of my older test Brenspeed tunes b/c I wanted to test something and in the middle of flashing it beeped and said some kind of error. I was like oh shit I just bricked my PCM!!! The car would not show any numbers on the trip and would not start. Not even try. It wouldn't even turn the starter over. Scared the hell out of me. So I unplugged the SCT, put it back in and tried to load the tune again and thank god it worked. I'm so glad this PCM is not like some devices where if you flash a new firmware and it fails then the device is bricked.

Anyway, thanks 100000x marcspaz "The guy with the best sounding 3v ever!" LOL!

 

[marcspaz]

Cool, that's just what I was looking for. This has been bugging me for MONTHS. The tuning aspect of it I'm not worried about and if people want to keep that a secret that's fine I don't care. Since I don't do my own tuning at this time the actual fix in the tune does not concern me, I just wanted to know the why behind the trans fault and this is exactly what I was looking for. I could not understand why the loping would confuse the trans, I thought maybe a vacuum thing, but now I see.

Glad I made sense in that one.. LOL. Doug is the person who explained it to me as well as telling me how to fix it. If he was not doing tunes anymore, I would have no problem sharing, but he asked me not to share the info, as it took awhile for him to develope. I just don't want to screw him over by giving the infor to BrenSpeed and BBR... I hope you understand.

So my brenspeed tune is in the file format that Live Load wants which is .cef but I think that format is protected and no one can read that. So if I can request the .mtf format of my tune from Brenspeed then I'll send it to you.

I am sorry, which ever tune is the one you are trying to use now (BBR or BrenSpeed) that is the correct tune for your car, but has the O/D light flashing issue... that is the one I need in an mtf format.

The first time I ran my BBR tune it flashed the O/D light, so I'm un-sure if it has this fix, whatever it is, but maybe it only did it b/c the STFT is not right for it so with the bouncing-all-over-the-place idle is what caused it. I still find it weird that my Brenspeed tune has no idle issues but the moment I load the BBR tune it does. My Bama tune did have those issues too until Doug revised it like 5+ times, heh. Maybe the STFT data is "setup" for my Brenspeed tune and it's incompatible with my BBR one? Is there any sense to that? I'll try over the weekend since it'll not be raining then to reset the STFT. It's too bad unplugging the bat for 30 min does not do that, apparently it takes more than that.

Yesterday I went to load in one of my older test Brenspeed tunes b/c I wanted to test something and in the middle of flashing it beeped and said some kind of error. I was like oh shit I just bricked my PCM!!! The car would not show any numbers on the trip and would not start. Not even try. It wouldn't even turn the starter over. Scared the hell out of me. So I unplugged the SCT, put it back in and tried to load the tune again and thank god it worked. I'm so glad this PCM is not like some devices where if you flash a new firmware and it fails then the device is bricked.

LOL I have bricked many servers due to bad firmware and BIOS updates. I know that would suck bigtime if it happened to a car.

Anyway, thanks 100000x marcspaz "The guy with the best sounding 3v ever!" LOL!

hahaha Awesome! NP bro.

 

[SirKnightTG]

Glad I made sense in that one.. LOL. Doug is the person who explained it to me as well as telling me how to fix it. If he was not doing tunes anymore, I would have no problem sharing, but he asked me not to share the info, as it took awhile for him to develope. I just don't want to screw him over by giving the infor to BrenSpeed and BBR... I hope you understand.

Yes NP. I just wanted to know more about what's physically happening and what the PCM thinks is happening more than the tuning part. If there's any more details you can share I'm all ears.

I am sorry, which ever tune is the one you are trying to use now (BBR or BrenSpeed) that is the correct tune for your car, but has the O/D light flashing issue... that is the one I need in an mtf format.

Well I'm told BBR knows the fix but I just need to solve the idle problems first before I can worry about the O/D issue with that one. It might be fixed in the tune but comes back only b/c of the messed up idle. I'll only know once I can do a better clearing of the PCM's data like mentioned earlier. So the Brenspeed tune is the one I've been trying to use the most since the only issue it has is the O/D light. That's the one I'll send if I can and if Brenspeed does not fix it.

LOL I have bricked many servers due to bad firmware and BIOS updates. I know that would suck bigtime if it happened to a car.

I bricked my one of my previous computer's BIOS once like that. I went to update it and for some reason it failed (even though I followed their directions exactly) and the computer was completely dead. There was no fixing it on my end. It wouldn't do jack. I had to unplug the BIOS chip from the motherboard and sent it in to have the manufacturer re-flash it with their equipment. That sucked. I have not flashed another BIOS since.

 

[SirKnightTG]

I just got an email from Dave @ Brenspeed and he said they are working with SCT on this as we speak. SCT has been forwarded all the info I have given Brenspeed and so they're aware of the problem and trying to isolate it.

Dave told me that they had one local customer with the issue and had the dealer adjust something (not sure what that was yet) on the trans and the issue went away. He also told me his 2006 GT auto w/ cams (not sure which ones yet until he responds) has had 20K miles on the cams and never seen it.

Almost sounds like to me that some cars are sensitive to this issue while others are not?

What's also weird is this issue comes up almost randomly where there are times I think it should do it due to doing a good amount of coasting and it does not, and other times where I've never had it happen before suddenly do it. But, in ALL cases, coasting at slow speeds was happening.

 

[marcspaz]

I just got an email from Dave @ Brenspeed and he said they are working with SCT on this as we speak. SCT has been forwarded all the info I have given Brenspeed and so they're aware of the problem and trying to isolate it.

Dave told me that they had one local customer with the issue and had the dealer adjust something (not sure what that was yet) on the trans and the issue went away. He also told me his 2006 GT auto w/ cams (not sure which ones yet until he responds) has had 20K miles on the cams and never seen it.

Almost sounds like to me that some cars are sensitive to this issue while others are not?

What's also weird is this issue comes up almost randomly where there are times I think it should do it due to doing a good amount of coasting and it does not, and other times where I've never had it happen before suddenly do it. But, in ALL cases, coasting at slow speeds was happening.

PM Sent...

 

[mydangstang]

PM Sent...

Wow Woodbridge Here Too!! Are you the white Gt with the glass top?? If so I spoke to you at the Subway but was driving my corolla awhile back

 

[marcspaz]

Wow Woodbridge Here Too!! Are you the white Gt with the glass top?? If so I spoke to you at the Subway but was driving my corolla awhile back

Nope, sorry. I have a solid roof... I still think we may have met before though. The handle and car look familiar. Are you friends with Nate over in Lakeridge? I am a member of the NVMC too.

I am not more than a few blocks from the corner of Hoadly and Dale... Just down the road fom Mapledale Plaza.

 

[mydangstang]

No but it'd be good to meet up sometime, I am on Old Bridge just up from Gordon blvd. Do you all goto the meetings up at dulles expo? I joined up via the website but haven't been able to get to any meetings or runs etc.

 

[Gray Ghost GT]

I belong to the same club (NVMC) as Marcspaz and plan to be at a future club meeting once the weather cooperates, etc. I have the Hot Rod cams installed so you can check them out.

 

[marcspaz]

No but it'd be good to meet up sometime, I am on Old Bridge just up from Gordon blvd. Do you all goto the meetings up at dulles expo? I joined up via the website but haven't been able to get to any meetings or runs etc.

I try to get there as often as possible. If you go to the next meeting, I'm hard to miss...

I'm the big guy in the foreground... LOL

http://fiveguysracing.com/marc/JohnandI.jpg

I belong to the same club (NVMC) as Marcspaz and plan to be at a future club meeting once the weather cooperates, etc. I have the Hot Rod cams installed so you can check them out.

I hope the weather is nice. I have been waiting to hear the cams myself... and maybe a tip around the block shooting shotgun!

 

[mydangstang]

I try to get there as often as possible. If you go to the next meeting, I'm hard to miss...

I'm the big guy in the foreground... LOL

http://fiveguysracing.com/marc/JohnandI.jpg





I hope the weather is nice. I have been waiting to hear the cams myself... and maybe a tip around the block shooting shotgun!

Decent, Depending when the next meeting is I can follow you up there and not get lost.

 

[undefinedrj666]

2006 gt, man tran- i currently have a JLT series 3 Cia, with an sf3 bama tuner and i am currently looking to install the FR TB, intake manifold, hot rod cams and FR 4.10's. It is my daily driver and im looking for more power+performance but not a track goer.the instal will all be done by a mustang specific shop and they will dyno tune it for me, now my question is does anyone have any suggestions on maybe different parts or a different setup for quality Vs power for the $$$. also should i just go ahead and do headers also and if so which ones would be most recommended?

 

[Marc s]

2006 gt, man tran- i currently have a JLT series 3 Cia, with an sf3 bama tuner and i am currently looking to install the FR TB, intake manifold, hot rod cams and FR 4.10's. It is my daily driver and im looking for more power+performance but not a track goer.the instal will all be done by a mustang specific shop and they will dyno tune it for me, now my question is does anyone have any suggestions on maybe different parts or a different setup for quality Vs power for the $$$. also should i just go ahead and do headers also and if so which ones would be most recommended?

It really is a small world. Today, you find an old thread of mine and yesterday I think that you were in my shop getting a quote for all of this work. This is a great site and I'm sure that everyone will give some good info.

Also, good job on using the search function. Most people that are new to this site forget to do that. Anyway, it will be good to hear everyones opinions to your questions.

 

[Wes06]

The only downside to these cams is that you will now experience a condition called "perma grin" every time you start up and drive your car!!

Confirming the diagnosis of perma grin.
Every time I get to a light and it lowers enough to get that choppy lope I just have to grin. Car rocking around and that sound.
Suprised gf or mom havnt asked why my car sounds/shakes the way it does. Lol