Kooks knockoffs

[Barricade]

I do believe that most of the time you get what you pay for but
I also agree with George....Its an alternative for people who cant afford it.

Maybe its just my age but headers are headers. There really isnt allot to them if they fit.

 

[fdjizm]

I don't even know why kooks headers are so damn expensive, they aren't made out of platinum coated titanium and the cats are sub par.

 

[beefcake]

I don't even know why kooks headers are so damn expensive, they aren't made out of platinum coated titanium and the cats are sub par.

for what it's worth, the stainless works use thicker gauge than anyone else as well. I already confirmed that with the larger manufacturers when JJ tried telling me Stainless works was sub par.

Of course the response I got to that was, who needs the added weight, lol.

Personally, I want a quality product.

 

[JJ@WMS]

For those looking for a nice quality header at a low price, OBX will be releasing their Kooks copy for the 5.0 soon. Stainless 304. I would expect pricing in the ~$450 range.

for what it's worth, the stainless works use thicker gauge than anyone else as well. I already confirmed that with the larger manufacturers when JJ tried telling me Stainless works was sub par.

Of course the response I got to that was, who needs the added weight, lol.

Personally, I want a quality product.

I didnt tell you the headers were subpar I told you that in my experience with the SW headers and exhaust that I didnt like the thin slip fit connections and thin tubing that was used.

My opinions are not based upon any loyalty, sponsorship or "deals" that I have gotten from any manufacturer and thats hard to find on the forums, My opinions are based upon what I have installed here personally at the shop and what I see come in the door. Trust me when I say that when I finally get my hands on a set of the Pypes longtubes for our car and they are subpar I will cut bait and let everyone know but from what I have already installed here at the shop the Pypes products fit and work as advertised and are fairly high quality compared to the much more expensive offerings out there.

Its a much harder road to travel down in this manner but its a much more rewarding one in the end.

JJ

 

[Barricade]

Thats good to hear cause I bought a set of Pypes LT's with a O/R X.....

Just waiting on install money....

 

[Germeezy3]

Some people simply can't afford 1200-1400 on headers.

Maybe one of the big header companies should build a non-stainless header for budget minded consumer.

Not everyone lives in the salt belt and even some of those that do don't drive in the winter.

Mild steel headers were good enough for the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s...

I find it interesting that some of the companies used to charging the Corvette tax like Kooks and Corsa have kept the same pricing ideas on there 5.0 products. Both companies make very good quality products but as you said $1,400 for a header with a ~ 10 rwhp difference with $600 headers may be a hard pill to swallow.

You pay a higher dollar for Stainless Works, ARH, Kooks because they actually take the time to do the R&D, Mock-up and they build them in house in the USA.

Other companies take someone elses header, and copy it then get them made over seas for pennies on the dollar. Which is why they are so cheap and always late to the party on products. Because they wait for everyone else to do the real work.

Time is money and the companies that take the time to R&D a nice product are going to charge more because they have more time and effort into it. Plus they have AMERICAN workers building them.

Have other companies give you pictures of the process like BeefCake gave us when his car was at Stainless Works. Everyone wants it cheap, but then complains when they see the unemployment rate. You can't have it both ways.

And those people that desire that don't have the problem paying more for it, not everyone can afford the best. I have also found in a lot of different areas like audio equipment that its typically the mid level equipment that is the best. If you don't have $1,200 or $1,400 what alternative do you have?

I didnt tell you the headers were subpar I told you that in my experience with the SW headers and exhaust that I didnt like the thin slip fit connections and thin tubing that was used.

My opinions are not based upon any loyalty, sponsorship or "deals" that I have gotten from any manufacturer and thats hard to find on the forums, My opinions are based upon what I have installed here personally at the shop and what I see come in the door. Trust me when I say that when I finally get my hands on a set of the Pypes longtubes for our car and they are subpar I will cut bait and let everyone know but from what I have already installed here at the shop the Pypes products fit and work as advertised and are fairly high quality compared to the much more expensive offerings out there.

Its a much harder road to travel down in this manner but its a much more rewarding one in the end.

JJ

Its not often that people or companies have unbiased candor, PLUS 1 for you !

 

[Liftedbronco]

i dont think anyone has the money to waste 7 or 800 dollars on headers just for the name brand alone. if they were identical, we'd all buy the knockoffs. but its the typical american way. we always buy from the lowest bidder, then complain when (sometimes) it fits poorly or they have no customer service.

I wish we could see the forest through the trees here. We need to keep in mind that its worth supporting those who deserve it. What happens when (bear with me) Kooks goes out of business because no one felt like "wasting" money on their products? all we can get then is BS jap made crap? Are we gonna be happy then? Its the American way, and what we demand. It sucks.

 

[2011GT1979]

Aftermarket parts sales for cars is a consumer driven "wants" market. So there are very few people that want to spend more on performance parts when they can achieve the same performance for a fraction of the cost no matter where it is manufactured.

A lot of people are saying things like no customer support, made in China and so on. Those are just facts of life. Business is survival of the fittest.

If you could make a header that was a direct knock off and run a business successfully doing while making a nice, comfortable living you would do it and not care if Kooks went out of business. You would probably want it to happen.

 

[KJGT]

Kooks could always just buy the knock offs and sell them for 300.00 more with their name on it. they can probably make more money than they are making now - THATs the American way nowadays

 

[Liftedbronco]

yea! hey kooks, go do that.

but theyd more likley hire a lawyer, and tie up our legal system for 10 years. and cease research on new products during that time.

I know, such a pessimist.

 

[KJGT]

yea! hey kooks, go do that.

but theyd more likley hire a lawyer, and tie up our legal system for 10 years. and cease research on new products during that time.

I know, such a pessimist.

Kooks can label them as their 'value brand,' cheaper, no warranty and no support unless OBX forgets to drill a hole in the flange or something. I'm sure OBX would be more than happy to sell Kooks as many as they want. Which works out for Kooks, no R&D costs at all (except their original R&D that was copied of course), pure profit..

 

[kdesigns]

You pay a higher dollar for Stainless Works, ARH, Kooks because they actually take the time to do the R&D, Mock-up and they build them in house in the USA.

Other companies take someone elses header, and copy it then get them made over seas for pennies on the dollar. Which is why they are so cheap and always late to the party on products. Because they wait for everyone else to do the real work.

Time is money and the companies that take the time to R&D a nice product are going to charge more because they have more time and effort into it. Plus they have AMERICAN workers building them.

Have other companies give you pictures of the process like BeefCake gave us when his car was at Stainless Works. Everyone wants it cheap, but then complains when they see the unemployment rate. You can't have it both ways.

X2.

 

[Mach1Marauder]

We've installed a set of OBX headers before on a 3V. They fit like shit and hit on everything. Not a very good copy.

Found the same thing John on two customer cars where they bought the parts and we installed them. One was an 09 and the other was an 06 I believe.

 

[JJ@WMS]

You pay a higher dollar for Stainless Works, ARH, Kooks because they actually take the time to do the R&D, Mock-up and they build them in house in the USA.

Other companies take someone elses header, and copy it then get them made over seas for pennies on the dollar. Which is why they are so cheap and always late to the party on products. Because they wait for everyone else to do the real work.

Time is money and the companies that take the time to R&D a nice product are going to charge more because they have more time and effort into it. Plus they have AMERICAN workers building them.

Have other companies give you pictures of the process like BeefCake gave us when his car was at Stainless Works. Everyone wants it cheap, but then complains when they see the unemployment rate. You can't have it both ways.

FWIW Pypes used our car for inhouse mockup of what they are coming out with for the 5.0 GT. The stepped header they will be offering was custom fabricated in house and at great cost to the company. The actual product is being made in China.

Charging a premium price to recoup your R&D cost is one thing, gouging the customers just because you have something available is quite another.

JJ

 

[carbd86gt]

If Kooks, ARH or Stainless Works goes out of business, who is OBX going to copy? Then they go out of business too and you have no headers to choose from. Like already mentioned, you pay more for Kooks, ARH and SW because the other stuff is all copies of the expensive stuff that is made in China. I don't know about you guys, but you can afford anything you want, especially a $1300 exhaust SYSTEM (headers and midpipe) if you just SAVE. But we are America, we don't save an we want instant gratification, that's why China OWNS us now.

There is more to just fitment when you purchase a header, the primary and collector design have an effect in scavenging which help reduce pumping losses of the engine which in turn helps the car make more power and be more efficient. That's why in one of the 3v header tests done a few years ago, Kooks, ARH or SW (can't remember which one off the top of my head) made more power then all the other brands. The BBK's and Mac's fit ok, but the other brands do more then just fit.

This is just my opinion and some of my experiences, hope that some of you take some of the info in this thread into consideration and help support the companies and people who actually help our hobby grow.

 

[BMR Tech]

Found the same thing John on two customer cars where they bought the parts and we installed them. One was an 09 and the other was an 06 I believe.

Do you or John have any specific info for inquiring minds?

What didn't fit right, what hit, etc?

BTW, you are missed over on M1R.

 

[Mach1Marauder]

Do you or John have any specific info for inquiring minds?

What didn't fit right, what hit, etc?

BTW, you are missed over on M1R.

One primary on the driver side had to be massaged for the steering linkage, but NOT on the other car. The tranny case had to be clearanced on both cars. That's all I remember off the top of my head.
They sucked!

 

[wbt]

Hmmm.....thread really turned into a bitch fest.

You vendors going to call the BBK and Pacesetter headers out for being less expensive too?

JJ is the only vendor that has posted constructive responses.

The only positive is knowing what vendors I will not be doing business with in the future.

BTW - I am just fine buying parts made in the US. CHE makes all their own parts and the only suspension pieces I will use on my car period.

This thread was intended to provide the community with an alternative to the high $$$ exhaust parts out there.

 

[KonaGT]

If Kooks, ARH or Stainless Works goes out of business, who is OBX going to copy? Then they go out of business too and you have no headers to choose from. Like already mentioned, you pay more for Kooks, ARH and SW because the other stuff is all copies of the expensive stuff that is made in China. I don't know about you guys, but you can afford anything you want, especially a $1300 exhaust SYSTEM (headers and midpipe) if you just SAVE. But we are America, we don't save an we want instant gratification, that's why China OWNS us now.

There is more to just fitment when you purchase a header, the primary and collector design have an effect in scavenging which help reduce pumping losses of the engine which in turn helps the car make more power and be more efficient. That's why in one of the 3v header tests done a few years ago, Kooks, ARH or SW (can't remember which one off the top of my head) made more power then all the other brands. The BBK's and Mac's fit ok, but the other brands do more then just fit.

This is just my opinion and some of my experiences, hope that some of you take some of the info in this thread into consideration and help support the companies and people who actually help our hobby grow.

I agree with this, there is definately power to be gained in a properly designed header. Primary size, length and even the pattern they are routed into the collector as well as collector design and length affect power/efficiency. I had a set of headers I had $1,000 into and while they did make more power on the dyno than some smaller junker headers, they still fit like crap in the car.

 

[STEWIE]

So let me get this straight from the guys that want the cheaper products....

You guys drive $35,000 2011 mustangs but then want to buy the cheapest thing possible to put on it. That cracks me up.