No traction off of the line

[429244]

...
Heavy car, stick transmission takes more air. If you are to low the tires wad up like in the video.

I thought this: I would want the tire to give more due to the fact that it is a stick and heavy car. Therefore lower (not higher) tire pressure would be better. After reading that tech bulletin, it was my opinion that I would want more tire pressure only to increase speed and high speed stability. Less tire pressure equaled more traction.
So the next time I go to the track (early next week if it doesn't rain but I bet it will), I will try to move the UCA to the top hole and start with a higher tire pressure. Do we all agree that I start at 18 psi or should I start with more? The fact that I get traction at one track and not the other throws me off.
Frankie, Thanks for posting the video.
As for the bias ply/radial discussion, yes, I run my DD fronts with my drag tires to and at the track.
As for the gears, my head hurts thinking about gears with the 3650 and my traction problem. Sure I want 4.10's but when I drive the car, it is mostly highway miles. If I keep the 26" DR tires (cost says I will to they wear out), I will be driving the car to the track at 2600rpm. That doesn't excite me. I will be at 2500 rpm on the highway with my DD tires. If only Ford made a 3.90 gear.
Thanks for the help all.

 

[05moneypit]

I thought this: I would want the tire to give more due to the fact that it is a stick and heavy car. Therefore lower (not higher) tire pressure would be better. After reading that tech bulletin, it was my opinion that I would want more tire pressure only to increase speed and high speed stability. Less tire pressure equaled more traction.
So the next time I go to the track (early next week if it doesn't rain but I bet it will), I will try to move the UCA to the top hole and start with a higher tire pressure. Do we all agree that I start at 18 psi or should I start with more? The fact that I get traction at one track and not the other throws me off.
Frankie, Thanks for posting the video.
As for the bias ply/radial discussion, yes, I run my DD fronts with my drag tires to and at the track.
As for the gears, my head hurts thinking about gears with the 3650 and my traction problem. Sure I want 4.10's but when I drive the car, it is mostly highway miles. If I keep the 26" DR tires (cost says I will to they wear out), I will be driving the car to the track at 2600rpm. That doesn't excite me. I will be at 2500 rpm on the highway with my DD tires. If only Ford made a 3.90 gear.
Thanks for the help all.

Motive makes a 3.90, that is what I run.

I run 17.25 to 17.75 in my tires MT 295/55/15 I leave off the transbrake at 3200-3400 but have hit it at full stall which is 4200 and have hooked very good 1.37 60' but it depends so much on the track prep. At a track rental this spring I couldn't keep it from spinning even foot braking it. Two weeks later same track and regular event and I was back to 3400 of the TB.

You are up against the same thing when you go to street nights and test and tunes and there are guys running street tires. It just plays hell with the starting line. I would not be afraid of going over 18psi just to see what it likes. It just takes a lot of testing and practice to find the sweet spot.

When the car spins the tires does it wheel hop or just spin?

 

[429244]

Are your Motive 3.90's quiet? There is a lot of internet complaining about those gears whinning.
My wheels just spin. The BMR lowers took care of the wheel hop.

Motive makes a 3.90, that is what I run.

I run 17.25 to 17.75 in my tires MT 295/55/15 I leave off the transbrake at 3200-3400 but have hit it at full stall which is 4200 and have hooked very good 1.37 60' but it depends so much on the track prep. At a track rental this spring I couldn't keep it from spinning even foot braking it. Two weeks later same track and regular event and I was back to 3400 of the TB.

You are up against the same thing when you go to street nights and test and tunes and there are guys running street tires. It just plays hell with the starting line. I would not be afraid of going over 18psi just to see what it likes. It just takes a lot of testing and practice to find the sweet spot.

When the car spins the tires does it wheel hop or just spin?

 

[05moneypit]

Are your Motive 3.90's quiet? There is a lot of internet complaining about those gears whinning.
My wheels just spin. The BMR lowers took care of the wheel hop.

They are louder than a Ford gear, I have had both in it.

 

[Falkwa]

i have just about every bolt on with my 06 GT stick and 4.10s. when i take it to work 96 miles round trip i get 23-25mph with cruise set a 70. 30%city and 70% highway.

 

[Ampire]

i have just about every bolt on with my 06 GT stick and 4.10s. when i take it to work 96 miles round trip i get 23-25mph with cruise set a 70. 30%city and 70% highway.

I get 15 city 24 highway with 4.10s, manual trans, intake, 93 octane dyno tune, but I dont drive much highway sadly.

 

[429244]

When I think of 4.10's, I am not worried about fuel economy (much). I think about traction, the noise of 2600 rpm at cruising speed, and how useful is first gear. This mental debate is so bad, I can tell you that after reading 05moneypit's post I was set on 4.10. Today, I want 3.73's.

 

[Falkwa]

hahaha my first gear is a very quick start and go for 2nd. will only change it if i do a 6 speed swap. since well they are geared different.

 

[05moneypit]

When I think of 4.10's, I am not worried about fuel economy (much). I think about traction, the noise of 2600 rpm at cruising speed, and how useful is first gear. This mental debate is so bad, I can tell you that after reading 05moneypit's post I was set on 4.10. Today, I want 3.73's.

When my car was a pup I ran 4.30 gears. Cold air kit, Brenspeed tunes, stock clutch, LCA's. I had 285's on the back and really didn't mind it on the street. With a set of MT ET bias (26" I think) at the track I could side step the clutch off the rev limiter and it would hook. 1.9x and high 13's IIRC.

The next summer I got the Novi 2200 and it was sick with the 4.30's but 1st gear was useless on the street and was to quick at the track, went back to the 3.55's and it would 1.6x 60' with the bias tires.

I went to the 3.90's when I upped the power a bunch and went to the 28" radials.

If you are going to do some kind of FI then the 3.55 or 3.73 would be good. Staying NA the 4.10's are good but first gear can be pretty quick.

Just my .02$

Lee

 

[429244]

Thanks for the input on gears. My 450 hp listed in the original post comes from a Roush SC. I had always wanted to build the lower end and go for 550-600 rwhp. Not to sound like a broken record (or skipping cd depending on your age), but I want to solve my no traction problem first.
It is looking like rain all week. I will keep you all posted when I finally do make it to the track with the adjustments we have talked about.

 

[skwerl]

Thanks for the input on gears. My 450 hp listed in the original post comes from a Roush SC. I had always wanted to build the lower end and go for 550-600 rwhp. Not to sound like a broken record (or skipping cd depending on your age), but I want to solve my no traction problem first.
It is looking like rain all week. I will keep you all posted when I finally do make it to the track with the adjustments we have talked about.

My Bullitt had 3.73 gears and gearing was always an issue. It was either too tall or too short. Actually the 3.73 gears worked well with the 3650 trans and 26" tires. But once I upgraded to the T56 then first gear was too tall and 4th gear was too short.

 

[AlbertD]

On a non-prepped track I would recommend a 28" MT Slick. It will give you the most consistent launch and should net you as low as 1.5 60 fts. The smaller sidewall and the DR compound may work well at a prepped track, but will spin at a non-prepped one.

The drag strip I used to race at never prepped the track correctly so I went through the same experience.

315/40 NT05rs - Spinned all day, unless launched from idle. 2.0 60s
17" (26 dia) ET Streets - launch at 3k, 1.9 60s
15" (26 dia) ET Streets - launch at 6k, 1.7 60s
15" (28 dia) ET Drags - launch at 6k, 1.51 60s (very consistent)

I was at 370rwhp and ran a 4.56 gear. Just noticed you have 3.55s, you may have to alter gearing to work with the 28".

Just my

 

[429244]

Brian, it was your posts from the Bullitt build that made me buy 26 inch tires. I wasn't considering them until I read about your success.
Bad281, thanks for the info. I drive my car to the track. I would love to use slicks but I don't want to change tires at the track.

 

[skwerl]

I don't think fuel economy driving to the track on your drag radials needs to be prioritized. If you address this then it will work against everything you're trying to accomplish at the track. Does it really matter if your rpm is at 2400 or 2600 or even 3000 while cruising to the track on drag radials? What difference does it make exactly? If you want better highway fuel economy with gears then you can always go with a taller street tire for your commute to work. But worrying about your highway rpm on drag radials while driving to the track once a month shouldn't even be mentioned IMO.

And I don't mean for that to sound harsh, just my opinion. Also I'm glad my experience with learning how to drag race the Bullitt was able to help you out.

 

[05moneypit]

I don't think fuel economy driving to the track on your drag radials needs to be prioritized. If you address this then it will work against everything you're trying to accomplish at the track. Does it really matter if your rpm is at 2400 or 2600 or even 3000 while cruising to the track on drag radials? What difference does it make exactly? If you want better highway fuel economy with gears then you can always go with a taller street tire for your commute to work. But worrying about your highway rpm on drag radials while driving to the track once a month shouldn't even be mentioned IMO.

And I don't mean for that to sound harsh, just my opinion. Also I'm glad my experience with learning how to drag race the Bullitt was able to help you out.

Well said and it isn't harsh.

 

[429244]

I am not ignoring this thread. I also didn't think Brian was being harsh. I made the changes to the uca mounting point but weather has not cooperated on track days. Hopefully next week.

 

[lindertw]

if you leave your car as is (stock springs/shocks/struts and your 3.55's) I'd go with:

- UCA in the top hole
- LCA in the top hole
- disconnect/remove front sway bar
- M/T ET street bias ply tires (p/n 3743) on a spare set of 17" OEM wheel
- launch at 5k + sidestepping the clutch

looking at the 3V all motor list, you should be able to hit 1.7x 60' times with 3.55 gears. Run bias ply rears with a manual trans, you're chasing your tail otherwise. Sure some folks have their car set to make the radials work, but bias plys are much more forgiving. My $0.02

I ran my '05 spd manual with OEM fronts and 17" M/T rears with no death wobble/sway at the top end at all.

Track with crappy prep, I ran 14-15psi in the bias ply rears; track with great prep I ran 18psi cold (wanted to try higher). I have 4.10's and drive to the track on bigs/littles (and turn 2400rpm or less at 70mph) it's not noticeable at all. My car's setup, now that I switched to 15" rear wheels/tires I get to start all over again with figuring out tire pressure and shock settings

good luck, and have fun!

 

[429244]

if you leave your car as is (stock springs/shocks/struts and your 3.55's) I'd go with:

- UCA in the top hole
- LCA in the top hole
- disconnect/remove front sway bar
- M/T ET street bias ply tires (p/n 3743) on a spare set of 17" OEM wheel
- launch at 5k + sidestepping the clutch

looking at the 3V all motor list, you should be able to hit 1.7x 60' times with 3.55 gears. Run bias ply rears with a manual trans, you're chasing your tail otherwise. Sure some folks have their car set to make the radials work, but bias plys are much more forgiving. My $0.02

I ran my '05 spd manual with OEM fronts and 17" M/T rears with no death wobble/sway at the top end at all.

Track with crappy prep, I ran 14-15psi in the bias ply rears; track with great prep I ran 18psi cold (wanted to try higher). I have 4.10's and drive to the track on bigs/littles (and turn 2400rpm or less at 70mph) it's not noticeable at all. My car's setup, now that I switched to 15" rear wheels/tires I get to start all over again with figuring out tire pressure and shock settings

good luck, and have fun!

Thanks for your reply. Great videos in that link. To be clear, at one point you did run radials in the front and bias ply MT ET Streets in the back, correct? If so, how was the ride home and fast were you going on that ride home?

 

[BMR Tech]

I've been watching this thread since it started.

I was treed, immediately. The recommendations I was going to post, were already posted.

I'll be watching for results.

FWIW, one of the best sixty footing N/A "bolt-on" 3V's I know of, has BMR Springs....UCA in upper hole, LCA in Middle.....and MT 275 Pro Radials. He side steps the clutch from 6000+RPM and consistently runs 1.5 to the sixty. Great 60's for 3600lbs and 300hp.

 

[lindertw]

Thanks for your reply. Great videos in that link. To be clear, at one point you did run radials in the front and bias ply MT ET Streets in the back, correct? If so, how was the ride home and fast were you going on that ride home?

yep, I used to run my OEM radials up front. air up the bias ply rears to 30-ish lbs for the drive to from the track, air them down to 18psi cold, and then air them back up for the drive home (fronts were set to 36psi).

I drive like a little old lady when not at the track, but no issues at all with 55-60mph on the highway with the ET streets on set to 30psi. My local 1/8th mile track is less than 30 miles away, and MIR is 85 miles one way.