torque arm

[pieperz06]

well i got a question i cant find the answer to.

been thinking bout getting some griggs stuff and the only part i dont get is the TA.

i dont understand where it is mounted and what you do with the uca.

the way it mounts to the axle seems kinda different to me also.

how do you mess with pinion angle if you install it?

also they say you have to modify the H pipe and i was wondering what exactly you have to do.

i just do not over all get what all it does and i was hoping yall mite have some incite for me.

i read what was on the griggs site but that raised more question than answers.

o yah and im also wondering if you need to to have a watts link to take full advantage of it or if a PHB will do for the time being.

 

[SoundGuyDave]

The torque arm would replace the upper control arm completely, but mounts in a totally different place... It's rigid-mounted to the axle over and around the diff cover, and extends forward all the way to the trans tailshaft, where it connects to a new crossmember on a slip/pivot bushing. Pinion angle is adjusted through shims, and either a Watts or Panhard will suffice to locate the rear end laterally. You'll have to modify the H-pipe to clear the crossmember.

 

[STEVE_POE]

The torque arm would replace the upper control arm completely, but mounts in a totally different place... It's rigid-mounted to the axle over and around the diff cover, and extends forward all the way to the trans tailshaft, where it connects to a new crossmember on a slip/pivot bushing. Pinion angle is adjusted through shims, and either a Watts or Panhard will suffice to locate the rear end laterally. You'll have to modify the H-pipe to clear the crossmember.

in other words don't spend your good money on it.

for what your looking to do, spend your money on good shocks and springs and a good set of brakes.

 

[pieperz06]

in other words don't spend your good money on it.

for what your looking to do, spend your money on good shocks and springs and a good set of brakes.

i thought that it was suppose to be like the best thing ever

 

[STEVE_POE]

i thought that it was suppose to be like the best thing ever

great marketing isin't it. lol

I'm not saying it's good or bad just that is a lot of money for what you get. I personally Think Griggs is way over rated. all I hear is about this class killer ai car they have being built and I've never seen one run in American Iron.

I don't know them or used them personally. I've called them before, they all sound arrogant as hell and looking at the prices they have made me leave the site. I've been around this road racing thing for a few years and I've heard way more bad stories then good about the products they sell and the customer support they offer.

each there own. If you think because it the greatest thing ever since sliced bread , and will make you the fastest car on the track then have at it.

 

[pieperz06]

great marketing isin't it. lol

I'm not saying it's good or bad just that is a lot of money for what you get. I personally Think Griggs is way over rated. all I hear is about this class killer ai car they have being built and I've never seen one run in American Iron.

I don't know them or used them personally. I've called them before, they all sound arrogant as hell and looking at the prices they have made me leave the site. I've been around this road racing thing for a few years and I've heard way more bad stories then good about the products they sell and the customer support they offer.

each there own. If you think because it the greatest thing ever since sliced bread , and will make you the fastest car on the track then have at it.

my problem is that i have not been around all that long and all i seem to read is how great there stuff is. i would love to be pointed in the direction of some thing that would be better(or cheaper). they just seem to be nice because you can get every thing at one place and you know it all works together. im wide open for any thing its just hard to know about some thing past face value because the internet has way more opinions than facts.

i finialy got on C-C and every s197 post i have found has griggs stuff on it of some sort and im just trying to find the best product i can and rite now i cant find any thing that has information to the contrary about the griggs setup.

 

[STEVE_POE]

If I seem to recall your looking to get involved in AI/CMC in Texas. go visit a race weekend with thos guys and look and ask around.

If I was starting with a stock car and was on a learning curve and had limited cash to spend the last place I would call is Griggs.

get yourself a set of good adjustable shocks and springs to start. Get those brakes upgraded and a good set of tires and go play and learn for a year. I bet after that year of having fun you will be glad you didn't spend the money.

You can have a lot of fun in cmc texas and not spend a ton of cash doing it.

It's amazing how many cars I see with all the great racing parts and they wonder why some guys with less go fast parts kick the crap out of them on the track.

You try to help by looking at a car with probably a 75k build with all the good stuff on it and you ask what spring rates are you running and they look at you with a dumb face like "I don't know." or you ask what kind of tires temps are you seeing and they don't even take any.

I guess what I'm saying is that there is a lot more to it then just spending money on go fast parts.

 

[Rodeoflyer]

Plain and simple -

If you don't know how it works you have absolutely no business buying it.


Spend your money on safety and comfort. Worry about going faster later. That torque arm costs as much as a set of tires.

 

[pcdrj]

The front crossmember is installed over existing studs and welded in place.
You'll install a new rear differential cover, which has (2) extra holes. Using the holes as guides you drill into the moutning face of the axle and pin it. The T/A has a flange that is bolted over the rear differential cover using the cover screws. The front will bolt onto the welded crossmember.

I am running an "X" pipe which needed slight bending to clear. My local shop didn't even charge me for it.

The T/A will hold/set you pinion angle and moves the axis point forward which holds the geometry better.

 

[pieperz06]

Plain and simple -

If you don't know how it works you have absolutely no business buying it.


Spend your money on safety and comfort. Worry about going faster later. That torque arm costs as much as a set of tires.

so you are saying you know how every thing you buy/use works because that seems pretty stupid. because im sure there are things in this world you dont know how every part of it work but im sure you would find out if it was some thing that interested you and that is all im trying to do.

The front crossmember is installed over existing studs and welded in place.
You'll install a new rear differential cover, which has (2) extra holes. Using the holes as guides you drill into the moutning face of the axle and pin it. The T/A has a flange that is bolted over the rear differential cover using the cover screws. The front will bolt onto the welded crossmember.

I am running an "X" pipe which needed slight bending to clear. My local shop didn't even charge me for it.

The T/A will hold/set you pinion angle and moves the axis point forward which holds the geometry better.

thanks that clears up just about every thing






damn now i know how it works now i can buy it

 

[SoundGuyDave]

I think the point Rodeo was making was that it very well may be a solution to a problem that you don't have... Best to spend your money learning to drive the car at the edge, with the stock system design, and only change it out IF you find yourself limited by the forward bite of the rear axle on corner exit, and are experiencing wheel-hop as a result. Also, understand that the converse of fantastic forward bite is the tendency to get into a wheel-hop condition under braking with the torque arm, that you won't have with the standard 3-link.

Seriously, Rodeo is just trying to save you from spending money fixing something that most likely is not a problem to begin with... FR500S? No torque arm...

 

[pieperz06]

I think the point Rodeo was making was that it very well may be a solution to a problem that you don't have... Best to spend your money learning to drive the car at the edge, with the stock system design, and only change it out IF you find yourself limited by the forward bite of the rear axle on corner exit, and are experiencing wheel-hop as a result. Also, understand that the converse of fantastic forward bite is the tendency to get into a wheel-hop condition under braking with the torque arm, that you won't have with the standard 3-link.

Seriously, Rodeo is just trying to save you from spending money fixing something that most likely is not a problem to begin with... FR500S? No torque arm...

im just wanting to get rid of my damn Dspecs because they are pissin me off and the griggs stuff seemed like and easy fix (because i like the idea of the SLA fronts with coilovers front and rear. but i dont want to get stuff i dont need which is why i was trying to learn more about the t/a and what all its function is.

 

[Cookiemonster]

I think the point Rodeo was making was that it very well may be a solution to a problem that you don't have... Best to spend your money learning to drive the car at the edge, with the stock system design, and only change it out IF you find yourself limited by the forward bite of the rear axle on corner exit, and are experiencing wheel-hop as a result. Also, understand that the converse of fantastic forward bite is the tendency to get into a wheel-hop condition under braking with the torque arm, that you won't have with the standard 3-link.

Seriously, Rodeo is just trying to save you from spending money fixing something that most likely is not a problem to begin with... FR500S? No torque arm...

I think wheel hop caused by braking just sounds dangerous...

heres a link to all the most popular "centering" techniques for solid rear axles.. its a good read.

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0604_rear_suspension_guide/pictures_diagrams.html

 

[pcdrj]

pieper,

I used to run D-Specs with Steeda Sport Springs , FRPP sway bars and Saleen Watt's link. I spoke with Agent 47 and Griggs before going further. They both have a solid approach and speak well of each other.

I installed the GR40 ST with their Watt's link and torque arm and IMO it went from being a better handling Mustang to a different car. I'm no hot shoe but the corner exits were dramatically improved. At 550 rwhp, you can come into the gas mid corner and still maintain grip. The car "feels' much lighter and can be tossed around with more predictability.

 

[SoundGuyDave]

I'm not trying to slam one approach, or push another, as I have absolutely NO dog in this hunt... The only thing I'm focusing on is not trying to re-invent the wheel. Both Griggs and A47 have good reps on the left coast, BUT the stuff is pricey, to the point where installing the SLA/TA combo is a solid season's racing budget!

The approach that I always advise is to fix the nut behind the wheel first. Only when you're capable of running lap after lap with solid consistency, can you really judge how the car is responding to YOUR inputs. Once the nut behind the wheel is tight (which takes track time, more track time, and then a bit more after that), you're in a position to really consider the dynamics of the car. If it's pushing on corner entry, but neutral in mid-corner, that tells you something completely different than if it just pushes all the way through...

If you get to the point where you can positively identify the camber loss from the strut geometry as the culprit in the mid-corner behavior of the car, then by all means grab an SLA kit and go to town. I will never say that a McStrut suspension is superior to a well engineered SLA kit, however, I do think that for the bulk of us meatheads out there running around in circles having fun, it's a bit overkill. If ponying up the $$ for the SLA winds up costing you even ONE track day, I personally think you're on the losing end.

 

[pieperz06]

I understand that but I'm not going to be missing any track days because of installing the kit. I'm just quite unhappy with my dspecs (long story but it is not becase they are a bad product). And instead of waiting on komi yellows to come back in production I was just going to save some money and just do it rite once rather Than swappy out stuff till I get fed up an end up doing what I wanted to do now.

 

[SoundGuyDave]

On 3/21, you wrote:

all i know is that im happy i got my dspecs.

And then on 3/22, you wrote:

im just wanting to get rid of my damn Dspecs because they are pissin me off and the griggs stuff seemed like and easy fix (because i like the idea of the SLA fronts with coilovers front and rear.

What's the deal? What changed so drastically and suddenly??? Anything we can help you with here?

 

[DusterRT]

LOL I was wondering about that too..

 

[pieperz06]

On 3/21, you wrote:




And then on 3/22, you wrote:



What's the deal? What changed so drastically and suddenly??? Anything we can help you with here?

lol i was wondering who was going to see that but my problem is this. i am happy with D-specs as a part im just not happy with the ones i have. i think they are good for what they are and i see there downfalls now that i have used them.

i have some funky sounds coming from the front right strut.

i have gone back through it and tightened every thing up it stopped the sound some and it was at a bearable level but it has been getting progressively worse.

the sound is is like a thumping kind of sound and sounds just horable on the bumpy roads where i live. i did not have this sound when i first got the shocks and it is only getting worse. also the sound is the same weather it is very stiff or soft and some times i can even hear the shocks moving like the gas being compressed or depressed. i have also gotten up under the car and it is not my exhaust or any thing else i can find.

im going to go back through and tighten every thing back up when i have my new garage and im hoping that may help it.

but i think it will be in vein because i think it is the valving on them. the jack ass who sold me the shocks sent them to me fucked up and i think there is noting more i can do. he sent me the rear shocks with out a dust cover so i was not able to use them and had to buy new rear shocks and the top of the front struts was bent up like it had been in a vice.

they do seem to be working and they are still changing stiffness easily and they do not make any sound on smooth roads or under heavy loads while doing autox or HPDE's.

i think the shocks are good i just got messed around on mine and i see the error of my ways. im just wanting to get a great set up and getting a beater to go to and from school and start making the car closer to a TT/CMC/AI car in the future(like 1-2 years). i am going to keep the dspecs on the car until the summer and by then i will have my beater and can work on the car with out worry about getting to and from school.

 

[SoundGuyDave]

"Ah, I see" said the blind man as he picked up his hammer and saw...

Okay, just a very friendly word of advice... Before you spend one more dollar on the car, think long and hard about where you want to end up. You're looking at three DRASTICALLY different rule sets, and as we all know, to win, you need to build to the limit of the rules. For example, JUST the SLA and TA conversions will cost you 34 points, with NOTHING ELSE DONE. That means no headers/midpipe (+3), no CAI (+1), and no other little bits... That will put you into TTB, with no room for anything but street tires, up against EVOs, M3s and C5Z06s all on Hoosiers... The SLA/TA is illegal in CMC, and that means you've just built yourself into AI, which will be a very expensive class to run in... Think NA motor, running E85 with an aggressive tune to make the power/weight numbers...

If I were you, I would start with a rule set that interests you, figure out what it will cost to campaign a season in that class, then figure your build costs. If AI is where you want to be, then go for it, but realize going in that the cars cost a LOT of money to build, even to just 90% of the rule book. Add to that the running expense, and it adds up fast.