Tulsa Shootout - Rules and Classes Discussion

marcspaz

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Okay gang... we have said it several times. This is for you all and we want to get feedback from everyone. So, chime in if you have ideas.

The organizers have been talking and we want to get a quick thread going to get some feedback about class rules. The other guys should chime in soon too... hopefully I am covering everything we have been discussing.

Keep in mind, we are running short on time and we need to settle this very soon, like in the next day or 3.

So, here is the basic idea. We are talking about having 3 heads-up classes with a potential 4th class for bracket racing. Most of the concern focuses around the heads-up racing.

Pending classes…

NA Street
Power Adder Street
Full Race Outlaw

The concerns are this, we don’t want to make the rules too strict because we don’t want to scare people off or discourage people from attending because they don’t have a purpose built car. Even though there is usually a pretty clear distinction between a street car, door slammer race care, and a 7/8 scale tubed chassis race car, some people’s vehicle teeter on the gray line between 2 worlds. On very rare occasion, a driver of one of those gray line vehicles will try to fudge things in their favor to dominate a class. We want to avoid that.

Here is the first draft of the rules.
____________________________________________

You have to pass track tech inspection. Use the NHRA rules as a guide. In doubt, call the track and ask.

Street cars are just that… licensed, insured, current state safety inspection, full exhaust, can be driven to the local gas station without getting a ticket. They can be on a trailer when coming to the track.

Full Race Class cars, you know who you are. Aftermarket computer (i.e. MSD FAST and similar), regardless of the rest of the setup, you’re in Full Race Outlaw. All race cars MUST be original OEM door slammer Ford Chassis’. No Tubed Chassis.

Event organizers and track staff have final say on safety issues and class assignment. Remember, it’s for fun, so play nice.
____________________________________________





Do the rules stay relaxed and focus on having fun or do we need to make more specific rules? If we make the rules stricter, we are going to ask for some feedback on what the members with racing experience would consider reasonable distinctions between street and race classes.

Do we relax the rules of the "street" guidelines and just put all NA cars in the NA class, regardless of streetability? Might make it fun and I would love to see Ron and Matt do battle! LOL

If we do relax the "street" guidelines, how do we seperate Power Addrer cars from Outlaw cars? I think we need to stay away from ET's, so that leaves setup.

So, what do you think?

Thanks
Spaz



_______________________________________________________________________________


Items mentioned to be added...

Bracket = All Run

NA = All Run

PA Street = 1 power adder, OE computer, any OE engine (strokers OK)

Outlaw = Multiple Power Adders, Any Engine, Any Engine Management system
 
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psfracer

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Here is what I would like to see for the classes:

N/A shootout: S197 mustang, stock computer, 3V or 4V mod motor, stroker motors ok, any transmission, factory body (fiberglass hood / trunk ok), no tube chassis, stock style suspension (coil overs ok) interior stock appearing (as in factory dash, carpet, aftermarket seats ok, rear seat delete ok). Slicks ok, trans brake ok, no electronics. Heads up .400 tree.

Power Adder shootout: S197 mustang, stock computer, 3V or 4V mod motor, stroker motors ok, any transmission, any power adder(s), factory body (fiberglass hood / trunk ok), no tube chassis, stock style suspension (coil overs ok) interior stock appearing (as in factory dash, carpet, aftermarket seats ok, rear seat delete ok). Slicks ok, trans brake ok, no electronics. Heads up .400 tree

Outlaw shootout: S197 mustang, any computer or no computer, any engine, any transmission, any power adder(s), factory body (fiberglass hood / trunk ok), no tube chassis, stock style suspension (coil overs ok), interior stock appearing (as in factory dash, carpet, aftermarket seats ok, rear seat delete ok). Slicks ok, trans brake ok, no electronics. Heads up .400 tree

Bracket race: Any S197 mustang. .500 3 amber tree. Moms mini van will not be allowed.

TNT: Any car that a S197 forum member has that wants to race. Just pass tech.

Call outs: Call out any member. Lets bet on the side as the casinos are too far away.
 

marcspaz

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So the main differences between Power Adder and Outlaw would be the computer (or lack of one) and the engine?
 

GrnBullitt08

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What about the N/A monster cars like Matt Ds? He would be running in the same classes as alot of guys running low to high 12s...He will destroy most if not all of us.
 

psfracer

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Run in the shootout and see how high you can qualify, then when you are eliminated run TNT or the bracket races. The point of a shoot out is to find out who the fastest is, right?

What I don't want to do is make 10 different classes based on mods, because then we will have only a few cars in each class. Remember as of right now, we are thinking only 80 cars will be showing up.

Lets not forget this is an event for all of us to get together and have fun. We can also compare times to each other on the same track, same day, same weather. It will be interesting to say the least.
 

GrnBullitt08

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Run in the shootout and see how high you can qualify, then when you are eliminated run TNT or the bracket races. The point of a shoot out is to find out who the fastest is, right?

What I don't want to do is make 10 different classes based on mods, because then we will have only a few cars in each class. Remember as of right now, we are thinking only 80 cars will be showing up.

that makes sense....guess im gonna need to add a fews things before spring.
 

psfracer

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So the main differences between Power Adder and Outlaw would be the computer (or lack of one) and the engine?

Thats just the start. Based on everyones feedback I am sure more examples will come up. One could say street legal---as in if your not street legal then to outlaw you go---but street legal and street driven are two different things. Of course, this is what the thread is for, to iron out differences / ideas and to have people who are planing to attend post up their ideas.

Perhaps another distinction could be the power adders---if you are running (1) power adder, then power adder class it is, but if you are running two power adders (like turbo + nitrous) then you belong in outlaw. Perhaps that would work?
 
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chad05gt

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What about the N/A monster cars like Matt Ds? He would be running in the same classes as alot of guys running low to high 12s...He will destroy most if not all of us.

that makes sense....guess im gonna need to add a fews things before spring.


Need to subtract a lot of things!

Ron, Matt, Art, and Im sure a few others will be there too... this will NOT be your 'every weekend local track bracket' going on group of s197s!! This event is getting all the guys together that are pushing s197's; in every class. :moon:
 

Tre06GTP1SC

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I really don't care about classes. Whatever class I end up in (power adder x2 here) Im just going to drive it like I stole it. If I win, I win. If not gonna have a blast doing it either way. Besides there is the TNT, so there will be plenty of opportunities to run
 

chad05gt

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I really don't care about classes. Whatever class I end up in (power adder x2 here) Im just going to drive it like I stole it. If I win, I win. If not gonna have a blast doing it either way. Besides there is the TNT, so there will be plenty of opportunities to run

Yup, thats going to be the attitude of most.

There will be alotta grudge matches... tnt will be alotta fun.
 

Boss281

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With these rules in NA, we already know who's gunning for the prize money. So that's not motivation. I'll watch the bracket sponsorships at this point. The new 5.0s are wicked quick out of the show room floor and add a new dimension to the issue. I might have my car in the current form down to 11.8 by next year, but now I really gotta think about dropping more weight, the ported heads, if I want a chance to compete. JJ and other 5.0s will still be a step ahead of me with a tune and suspension mods. Again, brackets is the equalizer here given the broad class descriptions.

To make it interesting to folks that got to drive 20 hours, you're going to need to split out into a few more classes. I've suggested in the past 4.6, 5.0, and built motor NA classes. Matt is going to clean up the 4.6, but you at least have a chance for runnerup or 3rd/4th.
 

Tre06GTP1SC

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To make it interesting to folks that got to drive 20 hours, you're going to need to split out into a few more classes. I've suggested in the past 4.6, 5.0, and built motor NA classes. Matt is going to clean up the 4.6, but you at least have a chance for runnerup or 3rd/4th.


Good point
 

05stroker

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Thats just the start. Based on everyones feedback I am sure more examples will come up. One could say street legal---as in if your not street legal then to outlaw you go---but street legal and street driven are two different things. Of course, this is what the thread is for, to iron out differences / ideas and to have people who are planing to attend post up their ideas.

Perhaps another distinction could be the power adders---if you are running (1) power adder, then power adder class it is, but if you are running two power adders (like turbo + nitrous) then you belong in outlaw. Perhaps that would work?
So that being said , will the street class be required to have cats ( not hollowed out ones) on the car ?

Reason I ask is there are a lot of street leagal cars out there that are inspected and registered with insurance that are not really street legal .

What defines street legal ?

I am like the rest and will be going just to have fun , but there is always "that guy" .
 

chad05gt

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more classes, little prize $, ... if 500$ is going to make or break you on this trip...


...so, how's that workin' out for ya?
drphil-04042007-6.jpg


Just run for fun... that same 500 is NOT an issue to those that will win in any/every class.

F-U-N
:moon:


..and make sure to get a little trophy to award 'that guy'!​
 

ArtQ

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Here is what I would like to see for the classes:

N/A shootout: S197 mustang, stock computer, 3V or 4V mod motor, stroker motors ok, any transmission, factory body (fiberglass hood / trunk ok), no tube chassis, stock style suspension (coil overs ok) interior stock appearing (as in factory dash, carpet, aftermarket seats ok, rear seat delete ok). Slicks ok, trans brake ok, no electronics. Heads up .400 tree.

This looks good, run what you brung and hope you brought enough.
Enough said..

Power Adder shootout: S197 mustang, stock computer, 3V or 4V mod motor, stroker motors ok, any transmission, any power adder(s), factory body (fiberglass hood / trunk ok), no tube chassis, stock style suspension (coil overs ok) interior stock appearing (as in factory dash, carpet, aftermarket seats ok, rear seat delete ok). Slicks ok, trans brake ok, no electronics. Heads up .400 tree

Outlaw shootout: S197 mustang, any computer or no computer, any engine, any transmission, any power adder(s), factory body (fiberglass hood / trunk ok), no tube chassis, stock style suspension (coil overs ok), interior stock appearing (as in factory dash, carpet, aftermarket seats ok, rear seat delete ok). Slicks ok, trans brake ok, no electronics. Heads up .400 tree

This one will get Crazy..I love it!



Bracket race: Any S197 mustang. .500 3 amber tree. Moms mini van will not be allowed.


TNT: Any car that a S197 forum member has that wants to race. Just pass tech.

Call outs: Call out any member. Lets bet on the side as the casinos are too far away.

A suggestion for the people that feel out gunned in the official classes: Get together in the coming months and figure out who will be closely modded and set up side classes, you can run your own eleiminations using the Grudge or TNT lanes to find out who is top dog at your Mod level ...Chip in a few bucks and have your trophies made up before hand..If you get enough cars in a few classes you may be able to get a sponsor to step-up with prizes, cash, Etc.
-V6 power adder/V6 N/A -V8 Cold air, exhaust and tune only for example..
 

Boss281

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A suggestion for the people that feel out gunned in the official classes: Get together in the coming months and figure out who will be closely modded and set up side classes, you can run your own eleiminations using the Grudge or TNT lanes to find out who is top dog at your Mod level ...Chip in a few bucks and have your trophies made up before hand..If you get enough cars in a few classes you may be able to get a sponsor to step-up with prizes, cash, Etc.
-V6 power adder/V6 N/A -V8 Cold air, exhaust and tune only for example..

You know Art, that is a REALLY good idea. I'd be happy to sponsor a class this way. Problem is I can't run in it! Maybe a few of us can talk privately about separating out a couple of mod specific classes and sponsoring cash. While I'd love to run in something like this, maybe I'll just sponsor it:

Open to all 2005 and newer 4.6l Ford Mustangs running pump gas
· Cars must be tagged and registered – no dedicated race cars
· Naturally aspirated stock Ford OEM short block, stock heads 2005-2010 4.6
· Any camshafts allowed
· No gutted interiors – 2 front seats, dash, door panels, console required. Back seat may be deleted but covered
· Suspension must use all stock mounting points
· Any wheel and tire combo is allowed
· Minimum weight with driver 3300 lbs
· Manual or automatic transmissions allowed – manuals must be clutch activated
· No nitrous systems or parts allowed in the car

What do you think? I think there is a cluster in 11.99-12.40 that might bring in 5-10 cars...
 

chad05gt

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You know Art, that is a REALLY good idea. I'd be happy to sponsor a class this way. Problem is I can't run in it! Maybe a few of us can talk privately about separating out a couple of mod specific classes and sponsoring cash. While I'd love to run in something like this, maybe I'll just sponsor it:

Open to all 2005 and newer 4.6l Ford Mustangs running pump gas
· Cars must be tagged and registered – no dedicated race cars
· Naturally aspirated stock Ford OEM short block, stock heads 2005-2010 4.6
· Any camshafts allowed
· No gutted interiors – 2 front seats, dash, door panels, console required. Back seat may be deleted but covered
· Suspension must use all stock mounting points
· Any wheel and tire combo is allowed
· Minimum weight with driver 3300 lbs
· Manual or automatic transmissions allowed – manuals must be clutch activated
· No nitrous systems or parts allowed in the car

What do you think? I think there is a cluster in 11.99-12.40 that might bring in 5-10 cars...


Art is much faster... you and I and others SHOULD be faster... maybe some evolution of that et you have there... no matter...

Im IN :clap:

Call it "The Rained out at the Rock" class! :roflmao:

edit: no 2 step, trans brake,
 
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Natural1

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But wait, I would like to suggest a class that I can be competitive in as well. Does anyone want to hear about it?

The fastest cars get the 500 quid, end of story. If you are driving over 4 hours with a car in tow and you think that you are going to make or break even on this deal, you need to rethink the way you calculate a budget. This is not a money making event, it is an event where the fastest cars in each class get a reward. If you guys split into another class, is Matt just going to run by himself? Can't anyone go out and just have fun?

Also, street legal cars are those that have an inspection sticker. Just because you have an inspection sticker, does not mean that you couldn't remove certain things (converters) before a race. In my opinion, an inspection sticker, registration and current insurance card, determine the "street" status.
 
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Boss281

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Can't anyone go out and just have fun?

Yes, but... This has been a common theme but you gotta be careful with that one. If we just want to have fun, instead of a race throw a damn party, and I mean a BIG one. We all fly in on the cheap red eyes, stay in cheap hotels, and kill brain cells. Done, makes perfect sense, no arguments. It doesn't matter where it is (ok, forget some of our scummier cities). Bet 50 people show up hands down.

But if it's a race, and you want folks to travel, well, some of the more dedicated racers DO that, a lot. They have a limited budget to allocate across fuel and other expenses. A return on that, winning some $$, really helps out.

The former Five Guys Racing group, well, we spent a LOT of time trying to work through these issues. It was tough, and we had to make some really tough choices on classes, etc. (The good news is we ate a lot of good BBQ going through the motions.) We can talk up the business model all you want, but at the end you need to get a REAL car count to make it work, no matter what the plan. When 14 cars show up for the race you know you've missed something big, and the rain date counts went downhill from there.

Several of us have been there - Marc, Fastmover, Rygen, quikhuh, JJ, etc - and getting car counts and committments is a real bitch. You need a carrot, period.

Wanna have FUN, throw a party. Wanna be competitive, you need some sugar...

Just my two cents...
 

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