Tuning question - Can more power really be made without adjusting timing?

[Bmr4life]

I know some tuners were originally adjusting the timing and knock sensor values in the beginning, with pretty much all of them leaving knock setting stock now. Are any of them leaving the factory timing in place also?

 

[beefcake]

the majority of your power i would say would come from timing and fuel.

As far as knock sensor settings. I think it's good to have those settings working full tilt.

Without more timing, I can't see drastic gains, unless there is a huge amount of power to come with vct

 

[Rob72]

I too was wondering about what % of additional power(or amount) came from the timing increase and what additional power came from the cai and fuel increase in the tune.

 

[JDos1]

Doesn't that TSB that Ford released say that monkeying either Knock sensors OR Timing would void warranty?

Don't quote me on that and no one get their britches in a bind just because I brought this up.

 

[Rob72]

Doesn't that TSB that Ford released say that monkeying either Knock sensors OR Timing would void warranty?

Yes. Most of the people on this forum have accepted it and moved on.

 

[Bmr4life]

Doesn't that TSB that Ford released say that monkeying either Knock sensors OR Timing would void warranty?

Don't quote me on that and no one get their britches in a bind just because I brought this up.

Not to be rude, but you can keep that conversation out of this thread.


So I talked to BAMA earlier today and they said that most of their gains do come from adjusting timing. I was thinking about having my street tune programmed with stock timing so it would be a safe tune, but if its performance is going to suck I probably would never run it anyway.

 

[Rob72]

He can adjust the shifting and throttle response. That will make a noticeable difference. That way you can have a "safe" summer race tune.

 

[BAKnBLK2010]

I am of the opinion that you don't gain much peak HP from any of these n/a tunes. Maybe 10hp and probably more like 5hp from tune only. The biggest benefit from having a tune on one of these cars is getting rid of most of the torque management on the auto's and manual cars along with better shifting on the auto cars. People get way too hung up on dyno numbers when in reality the dyno is a tool to measure what the car actually benifits from performance wise. These cars pick up roughly 1/2 a second in the quarter mile from a tune only. Do you really think a tune only car picks up 50hp with just the tune? Something to think about.

 

[Rob72]

Dyno numbers are all over the place on these cars. These cars all seem to run around 5 mph on the 1/4 with just a cai and a tune.

 

[Bmr4life]

I am of the opinion that you don't gain much peak HP from any of these n/a tunes. Maybe 10hp and probably more like 5hp from tune only. The biggest benefit from having a tune on one of these cars is getting rid of most of the torque management on the auto's and manual cars along with better shifting on the auto cars. People get way too hung up on dyno numbers when in reality the dyno is a tool to measure what the car actually benifits from performance wise. These cars pick up roughly 1/2 a second in the quarter mile from a tune only. Do you really think a tune only car picks up 50hp with just the tune? Something to think about.

I partly disagree with you. While peak numbers may be only slightly higher, the power under the curve is greater the entire time. Tunes make a fantastic difference. There is no questioning that.

 

[wbt]

the majority of your timing i would say would come from timing and fuel.

As far as knock sensor settings. I think it's good to have those settings working full tilt.

Without more timing, I can't see drastic gains, unless there is a huge amount of power to come with vct

Wow...what an insightful observation. Timing comes from timing...no shit. Stick to the driving and let us peons do the wrenching......

I am of the opinion that you don't gain much peak HP from any of these n/a tunes. Maybe 10hp and probably more like 5hp from tune only. The biggest benefit from having a tune on one of these cars is getting rid of most of the torque management on the auto's and manual cars along with better shifting on the auto cars. People get way too hung up on dyno numbers when in reality the dyno is a tool to measure what the car actually benifits from performance wise. These cars pick up roughly 1/2 a second in the quarter mile from a tune only. Do you really think a tune only car picks up 50hp with just the tune? Something to think about.

I agree 100%. I witnessed .7 and 2 MPH gain on a stock manual trans 2011 GT the same night, same track with nothing more than a tune. It didn't pick up 70 HP but the tq nanny wasn't interfering anymore. With some added ignition timing and cam changes, along.with disabling tq managememt, we saw some outstanding gains.

 

[Wnt2gofst]

I agree 100%. I witnessed .7 and 2 MPH gain on a stock manual trans 2011 GT the same night, same track with nothing more than a tune. It didn't pick up 70 HP but the tq nanny wasn't interfering anymore. With some added ignition timing and cam changes, along.with disabling tq managememt, we saw some outstanding gains.

Seen it with my own eyes. The guy was stoked. Couldn't believe the tune alone did this. Guy was on stock tires as well. Hell I couldn't believe with a tune only he dropped .7 off of the car.

 

[Bad500chris]

The answer is yes.
Very few tuners know how to manipulate the TiVCT to gain additional power without adding more ignition timing.
http://www.svtperformance.com/forum...sults-local-dyno-tuner-vs-evolution-tune.html

 

[beefcake]

Wow...what an insightful observation. Timing comes from timing...no shit. Stick to the driving and let us peons do the wrenching......

Wow, aren't you brilliant.

I'm sure most people with common sense understood that to be power.

 

[Bmr4life]

The answer is yes.
Very few tuners know how to manipulate the TiVCT to gain additional power without adding more ignition timing.
http://www.svtperformance.com/forum...sults-local-dyno-tuner-vs-evolution-tune.html

Seen that thread before. Seems to much advertising. Looking for other opinions.

 

[beefcake]

Seen that thread before. Seems to much advertising. Looking for other opinions.

Even if you wanted to keep the timing the same. Just the drivability , like the throttle response and such, is soo much better with a tune.

I don't know why these cars are so unresponsive from the factory.

 

[SD07GT]

Even if you wanted to keep the timing the same. Just the drivability , like the throttle response and such, is soo much better with a tune.

I don't know why these cars are so unresponsive from the factory.

Ford does it best not to kill the morons that will be driving the 5.0....they want repeat customers

 

[Bad500chris]

Even if you wanted to keep the timing the same. Just the drivability , like the throttle response and such, is soo much better with a tune.

I don't know why these cars are so unresponsive from the factory.

Correct and ford makes them less responsive because they know the cars go to a whole range of different people. Everything from your 75 year old grandmother to a 16 year old just-got-my-license kid.
They don't want you to just tap the gas and get a huge amount of horsepower.

 

[Black 5.0]

Correct and ford makes them less responsive because they know the cars go to a whole range of different people. Everything from your 75 year old grandmother to a 16 year old just-got-my-license kid.
They don't want you to just tap the gas and get a huge amount of horsepower.

Hey now, I resemble that remark! Or at least I fall in that age group, perhaps in the upper...upper range, however, as far as throttle response, when I got my car, I was happy with the way it worked. Under normal driving conditions, it was tame so to speak. However, when you slammed the pedal, it acted like old school carburetion; opening up the secondaries like a carb sitting on top of a monster engine. It was cool!

I now have a tune on my car from a SC Cortex 1950 which is the performance tune. It is the 91 octane tune they provide. I use this because we don't have 93 octane here, we have 92 octane. Fine by me. There is a lot of different pluses that go along with a tune that are advantages which have been duely noted. Others include having the ability to adjust the radiator fan, turn skip shift off and datalogging using the hand held tuner. I am awaiting the app from SC to be able to read the data on my computer. I then should be able to monitor what my engine does under various driving conditions. Should be very helpful.

 

[Seer]

Even if you wanted to keep the timing the same. Just the drivability , like the throttle response and such, is soo much better with a tune.

I don't know why these cars are so unresponsive from the factory.

drive by wire parameters are neutered stock, thats why.

Have you ever played around with those parameters before. It's kind've fun being able to set the throttle to say 10% even with the foot slammed on the gas.

Or torque availability %'s