VMP TVS install (pics)

[GT500Steve]

Are you guys having issues getting it to idle properly with the L&M TB?

I know Lund is not a fan of them and has been recommending FRPP TB's lately.

Yeah, I was told the same thing. The FRPP is supposed to be a LOT more street friendly and easier to tune around.

 

[twisted_GT500]

Seer - I have the L&M 66, they also make a 72, which makes more power but is less street friendly. Honestly, first think when I start the car, it's a little jerky...but it seems like once the car gets warmed up it goes away and drives smooth as stock! Overall I'm very happy with it. Lund tuned mine also, but through a remote tune. I truly feel that if I took it to him in person so that he could experience it, he would e able to clear it up.


GT500Steve - my car is my daily driver, so while I do enjoy rounds of spirited driving, I rarely ever truly beat on it. And even then I don't push it all the way. I've only taken it to the track on two occasions. Planning on taking it at least once more, but doubtful after that. Your setup looks pretty good. I, personally, wouldn't have gotten the 10% lower knowing I'd eventually got a new blower. I'm pushing 18lbs with just the upper pulley, and there's even smaller ones if I used race gas. I'd only need a lower to run 30lbs (like thatll ever happen). Considering it was almost $700, was money I could spend elsewhere. What's the plan for mods after the DS? I would suggest suspension. Power is awesome, but of you can put it to the ground you get beat beat by old fat people on rascals

 

[GT500Steve]

GT500Steve - my car is my daily driver, so while I do enjoy rounds of spirited driving, I rarely ever truly beat on it. And even then I don't push it all the way. I've only taken it to the track on two occasions. Planning on taking it at least once more, but doubtful after that. Your setup looks pretty good. I, personally, wouldn't have gotten the 10% lower knowing I'd eventually got a new blower. I'm pushing 18lbs with just the upper pulley, and there's even smaller ones if I used race gas. I'd only need a lower to run 30lbs (like thatll ever happen). Considering it was almost $700, was money I could spend elsewhere. What's the plan for mods after the DS? I would suggest suspension. Power is awesome, but of you can put it to the ground you get beat beat by old fat people on rascals

I bought the 10% lower mainly because my car was a 2007. It was nice for the increase in torque, really nothing more. As big as these cars are it is hard to get them moving, and the lower really helped with that.

Suspension is definately the next thing on the list. I am trying to walk the line between a fun streetable car that hauls butt, or a race car. I went through this with a Fox body, and ended up with a full blown race car... so I am going to have to pick suspension parts wisely. Naturally going to do upper & lower LCAs, and probably adj. shocks on all four corners so whe will get the nose up and plant the tires. After that... Im done. Mainly we have 1/8th mile tracks close by, so if I can drive it down there and run 6.70s-6.80s on drag radials and then drive it back home I will be satisifed. I dont think thats being too optimitsic considering what it has run already on pump gas with stock suspension and a small tire. I think it might run 6.90s the way it was if I threw in a race tune and some suspension mods.

 

[pony23]

Nice write up. I am in the middle of my TVS swap right now. Glad to see its that easy. I have the L&M 72 on my stock blower and it drives perfectly. The TVS is perfect for a great street car.
I was wondering the same thing about the injectors. I also thought about sending my injectors out for a rebuild. They are flow tested before you get them back to make sure they match. Still on the fence though.

 

[Seer]

Nice write up. I am in the middle of my TVS swap right now. Glad to see its that easy. I have the L&M 72 on my stock blower and it drives perfectly. The TVS is perfect for a great street car.
I was wondering the same thing about the injectors. I also thought about sending my injectors out for a rebuild. They are flow tested before you get them back to make sure they match. Still on the fence though.

What kind of gains did you see adding a TB to the stock blower? Did you use the stock elbow as well or did you go with a ported elbow?

I never understood why people have their injectors modified, for $100 more you can have FRPP 80lbs.

 

[twisted_GT500]

FRPP 80s are EV6, GT500 engines used EV14 style injectors....the EV6s are taller and wont allow the fuel rail to sit under the crushed inlet elbow of the Whipple 2.9L or the stock elbow. On the Whipple 3.4, the case is so large the inlet sits high enough that it is not a problem. But I know several people personally that had to Dremel a small amount off the bottom of the whipple inlet because they are so big.

 

[Seer]

FRPP 80s are EV6, GT500 engines used EV14 style injectors....the EV6s are taller and wont allow the fuel rail to sit under the crushed inlet elbow of the Whipple 2.9L or the stock elbow. On the Whipple 3.4, the case is so large the inlet sits high enough that it is not a problem. But I know several people personally that had to Dremel a small amount off the bottom of the whipple inlet because they are so big.

But the FRPP 80s do work for the TVS 2300 do they not? Ah, nm it looks like they won't work. I wonder why people sell them for the GT500 then.

 

[pony23]

Justin at VMP stated the larger the injector you get the harder it is to get the car to idle right. That's why I am going with the 63's. Plus they are the correct style too.

I didn't install the dual 72 throttle body. They were installed by Tasca Ford before I bought the car. That and the 123 maf that was on the car. I added the ported elbow over the summer, but it wasn't on there originally. It made 550 on a Mustang dyno.

 

[twisted_GT500]

You can get the 80s to work on a GT500, it just more work than its worth...especially if you're going mildly modified. And the reason for the harsh idle is this: the larger the injector, the more fuel it's shooting per squirt. While the tuner can adjust the amount of time the injector is open, there's only so far down he can go with minimizing it's opening time.


If you have little to no mods, getting a TB isn't really worth it initially. You might see gains of 20-25rwhp...but typically less. Once you start upping the power though, the TB becomes restrictive....so changing it nets you 40-60rwhp, or more depending on how crazy your build is. Once I tried stepping above 15-16lbs of boost, I wasn't seeing any gains. If I remember correctly, it started only reading ~14-14.5....because of the TB. Once I stepped up to the L&M 66, now I'm reading ~18.5lbs.

The larger TB you go though, the harsher the rides. Eventually it gets to be either open, or closed...with very little middle ground. The L&M 66 is capable of supporting 1,200RWHP! I seriously doubt I'll ever see that in my car so it worked for me. Best price while retaining perfect driving manners.

 

[Seer]

You can get the 80s to work on a GT500, it just more work than its worth...especially if you're going mildly modified. And the reason for the harsh idle is this: the larger the injector, the more fuel it's shooting per squirt. While the tuner can adjust the amount of time the injector is open, there's only so far down he can go with minimizing it's opening time.


If you have little to no mods, getting a TB isn't really worth it initially. You might see gains of 20-25rwhp...but typically less. Once you start upping the power though, the TB becomes restrictive....so changing it nets you 40-60rwhp, or more depending on how crazy your build is. Once I tried stepping above 15-16lbs of boost, I wasn't seeing any gains. If I remember correctly, it started only reading ~14-14.5....because of the TB. Once I stepped up to the L&M 66, now I'm reading ~18.5lbs.

The larger TB you go though, the harsher the rides. Eventually it gets to be either open, or closed...with very little middle ground. The L&M 66 is capable of supporting 1,200RWHP! I seriously doubt I'll ever see that in my car so it worked for me. Best price while retaining perfect driving manners.

i have my eye on the CJ65 with the TVS2300

 

[DrTriton]

If you're hoping to be in the neighborhood of 700rwhp, better look at getting a Kenne Belle dual boost-a-pump as well. On the dyno my car put down 683rwhp, because it started running lean above 5,600rpm. After the BAP I running north of 700.



Also, and this is in NO way against VMP (good company), but Ford/Eaton is responsible for the fit and finish of the TVS. VMP added a cnc port job and swapped the nose assembly. I have the Whipple 2.9L on my car, and there were ZERO fitment issues with it either! No firewall modification, and did not have to lower the engine...and it is also offered by Ford. I'm not trying to be a advocate for Whipple, I'm just trying to provide accurate information!

Your information regarding the source of the TVS supercharger isn't totally accurate. Ford had absolutely NOTHING to do with that TVS supercharger, and the only thing Eaton supplied is the TVS rotating group. Roush designed the supercharger and their JV partner in Livonia MI assembled and tested it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGY5RrV8KiQ

This is the end-of-line test process that every unit goes through before it is shipped.

 

[pony23]

You can get the 80s to work on a GT500, it just more work than its worth...especially if you're going mildly modified. And the reason for the harsh idle is this: the larger the injector, the more fuel it's shooting per squirt. While the tuner can adjust the amount of time the injector is open, there's only so far down he can go with minimizing it's opening time.


If you have little to no mods, getting a TB isn't really worth it initially. You might see gains of 20-25rwhp...but typically less. Once you start upping the power though, the TB becomes restrictive....so changing it nets you 40-60rwhp, or more depending on how crazy your build is. Once I tried stepping above 15-16lbs of boost, I wasn't seeing any gains. If I remember correctly, it started only reading ~14-14.5....because of the TB. Once I stepped up to the L&M 66, now I'm reading ~18.5lbs.

The larger TB you go though, the harsher the rides. Eventually it gets to be either open, or closed...with very little middle ground. The L&M 66 is capable of supporting 1,200RWHP! I seriously doubt I'll ever see that in my car so it worked for me. Best price while retaining perfect driving manners.

Perfectly stated. Have a goal and stick to it, bigger isn't always better. People just keep changing their minds on how much power they want. Always more, more, more. Just need a real goal and stick to it. Once you go to far with the car it is no fun to drive any more. It won't idle right, breaks down, too much money for race gas, etc...

 

[vnmous1]

i have my eye on the CJ65 with the TVS2300

Wise eye. There are very good reasons why the best tuners in the nation are recommending the Cobra Jet.

No failsafes, no idle hunting, no hanging idle. Accufab has done an amazing job with this throttle body.

As for use with our VMP TVS, perfect. Justin and I are both over 700 rwhp, with 600+ rw pound feet of torque at 2500 rpm. The smooth response of the CJ with this kind of bottom end makes it a pleasure around town and a beast at the track.

Bj

Sent via Tapatalk from my MoPho

 

[Boozshey]

Awesome man! Im loving my TVS.

 

[twisted_GT500]

GT500Steve - I can understand wanting to get more from your combination. Unfortunately for me, I've had several times where I've gotten one thing...then ended up having to get something different because it wouldn't work with something in the future.


DrTriton - I will not lie, I do not know the full history behind the TVS. I had the understanding it was mostly created by Eaton. Honestly though, if Eaton supplied the rotating group, then Roush did what....design the case? The point of that post was just to say that VMP wasn't a factor in the initial creation of the TVS.




I cannot speak too much about the CJ TB, as I have no personal experience with it. I would imagine that it would work really well since that's what Ford uses. But like most things it comes down to personal preference. I chose to go with the L&M unit for a few reasons. First, I could get it in black. Pretty much my whole engine is in black, and I'm not that big into polished...so that's what I wanted. Second, I was able to get the L&M 66mm for over $150 less than I could find a CJ TB for. Finally, the L&M is slightly larger than any of the CJ TBs, and is supposedly good for 1,200RWHP. I have played around with the idea of being able to reach 1,000RWHP (built block, race gas, etc) for special occasions....and I figured the L&M would still give me wiggle room. And I can't be happier with the TB I got. Works flawless! There have been times when I question if I shouldn't have went a different route...but when I look over the pros/cons, it reminds me that I would have ended up paying more for a rougher ride, that wouldn't have netted me any significant gains, and I'm happy again.

 

[Boozshey]

I run 80lbs FRPP Injectors and they work just fine. I use fuel rail spacers, which VMP sells or you can get them from Lethal... Also I have no idle issues with Justin's (VMP) tune.

Yes, he did mention that 80's are a pita to tune, but he was able to do it in my application and the car runs strong with them.

Also, I run the VMP throttle body which it very much like the L&M. I went with it cause it was $300 cheaper than the FRPP one. Had someone had the FRPP for sale for cheaper I probably would have bought it instead.

But at 670rwhp and 690tq, I know there is still more cause with those pulls the fuel pumps were maxed out. Now that I have the DBAP, I really need to get back over to Justin's to get tuned again.

 

[twisted_GT500]

^^ can you take a picture of your fuel rails...particularly the rear of the driver's side. I had trouble getting my stock fuel rain back on with stock injectors, and them again with 72s, because the fuel rail was hitting the crusher inlet. Are you using stock fuel rail or aftermarket? I know the aftermarket ones have a lite more leeway.

 

[Boozshey]

I have stock fuel rails. I can take a pic, but I have a TVS so it will be different than your crusher.

 

[twisted_GT500]

I know it'd be slightly different. The crusher inlet is retardedly large....

I'd still like to see a picture if it's not a problem

 

[slowtsi]

In all honesty, I would be more concerned with modifying my injectors than swapping engine mounts. Correctly lowering the engine will also lower the car's center of gravity, improving handling and reducing body roll. But the idea of having someone take a drill to my injectors doesn't sit well with me. They feed blood to your engine... I opted to buy a set of injectors that we're designed and created specifically to flow 72lbs and fit the GT500. They were more expensive, but also gave me more piece of mind.

There are no 72lb injectors. Bosch makes an EV14 injector and the holes on the end dictate how much fuel the injector will flow at a given pressure. By switching out the "discs" on the end of the injector you obviously change that flow number. Any new 72lb injecotrs are just new ev14s with the appropriate discs to let them flow "X" amount of fuel. A resized stocker will be the exact same thing, just with a few miles on it