Your cooling mods and results?

[wiperblade]

I have a 2005 GT that I take to HPDE's; engine is stock save for a k&n intake the previous owner put on. Brakes and suspension upgraded.

Over our long cold winter I acquired an iphone, Harry's Lap Timer a high frequency GPS (xpgs 160) and a bluetooth OBD2 dongle (gopoint bt1) to gather some telemetry data during my laps.

A program that came free with the bt1 dongle is Dash Command that can read and display data made available via the obd2 port.

One that caught my attention was the coolant temp. On a 60f day, 10 to 15 minute sessions on a smaller track I would pull off and see a coolant temp of about 216 f consistently, with a high of 219 after slightly longer run.

I guess my first question is, is this too high? What are other's experiencing?

Second, what cooling mods have you done, and what was the result?

Thanks.

 

[Sky Render]

More importantly, what are your engine oil temps?

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[SoundGuyDave]

MOST LIKELY, you will see the oil temps leading the cooling temps by maybe 20*F or so. Neither (215 water, 235 oil) are anywhere close to being out of line.

With mine, in endurance racing, I normally see things stabilize around 220 water and 240~245 oil, and I'll run the car HARD for hours on end with those values. Remember that water boils at 212, BUT that temp is increased under pressure in the cooling system. I wouldn't want to see more than 235 water and 280 oil temps, but under that you'll be fine. What you need to watch for, though, are changes in the values from normal. That is your sign of an impending problem.

Cooling mods: Mezeire pump, Mishimoto radiator, FR500S air deflectors, heater core delete, remote oil filter (FL1A) with -10AN lines. Distilled water, with Water Wetter additive.

 

[Sky Render]

Cooling mods: Mezeire pump, Mishimoto radiator, FR500S air deflectors, heater core delete, remote oil filter (FL1A) with -10AN lines. Distilled water, with Water Wetter additive.

What are your opinions of that Mishimoto radiator?

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[SoundGuyDave]

For the cost, I don't see anything better out there on the market. Will a custom Griffin piece be able to dissipate more thermal energy? Probably. The Mishimoto, though, does "well enough," at least at my current 313HP level. If/when I cam the car or swap to a Coyote, though, that may change. Longest I've run is five hours, all under green-flag conditions, and it's held up fine.

 

[ddd4114]

With a Coyote, I'm seeing pretty high (but stable) temperatures. After a few laps, coolant temperature goes into the 225-230 degF range, and oil temperature runs ~280 degF. The only cooling modifications I've done are an oil-coolant oil cooler and a more open grille.

Since I'm somewhat OCD, I have Blackstone perform an oil analysis every time I change the oil. Even after beating the crap out of my car and letting it run pretty hot, I'm seeing no abnormal wear in the results. Of course, you have to take the measurements in a $25 oil analysis with a grain of salt, but it lets you know if there are any glaring problems.

As Dave mentioned, the cooling system is pressurized, so it won't boil anywhere near the temperatures you're seeing. In fact, some cars purposely run at ~220 degF (if not hotter) for fuel economy. S197's don't, but I still wouldn't be concerned until you get into the 240 degF range (or if you lose system pressure).

For oil, as long as you're using something synthetic, the main concern is pressure. As long as that's reasonable, you can run modern oil super hot for hours, and it'll be fine. Just keep changing the oil and filter regularly.

I know you don't have the same engine as me, but these basic concepts still apply.

 

[Sky Render]

For the cost, I don't see anything better out there on the market. Will a custom Griffin piece be able to dissipate more thermal energy? Probably. The Mishimoto, though, does "well enough," at least at my current 313HP level. If/when I cam the car or swap to a Coyote, though, that may change. Longest I've run is five hours, all under green-flag conditions, and it's held up fine.

I was wondering if the cost difference of the FR500S radiator was worth it over the Mishimoto.

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[SoundGuyDave]

Given that the Mishimoto (as well as the Fluidyne/FRPP/FR500S piece, and others) has a core roughly twice as thick as stock, thermal capacity really isn't the issue. Managing the airflow through the core is. My airflow is all SORTS of jacked up in that respect, and I still have no real issues with cooling. If you're thinking about doing an aftermarket radiator, you could do worse than the Mishimoto. Is the Fluidyne a better piece? Maybe. Is it worth twice the price? Again, maybe. My setup just isn't that stressed where the differences might show up.

Trip-D: Ever think of ditching the "oil-heater" for a proper air/oil heat exchanger? It might do you a world of good in the temperature area...

 

[ddd4114]

Trip-D: Ever think of ditching the "oil-heater" for a proper air/oil heat exchanger? It might do you a world of good in the temperature area...

Yeah, I think you're right. The pancake cooler/heaters do help to reduce oil temperature by 10-20 deg, but of course a dedicated heat exchanger is a much more effective option.

It's something that's on my list, but it's a lower priority for me since what I have is (arguably) still functional. Before those small cooling modifications, my oil temps would exceed 300 degF. Since I started tracking my car a few years ago, most of my budget has gone into tires, safety upgrades, and stuff that keeps my car functioning (like brakes).

I'm also considering an aftermarket radiator like yours, but I haven't looked into it much. A decent heat extractor on the hood would probably help a lot too. With all of the plastic covers, I doubt much airflow goes through the engine bay, and that's terrible for engine temperatures by itself.

On another note, I'm actually very interested to see how much power our engines lose as the coolant temperature rises. It would suck to make a lot less power after a couple laps than what your dyno printout says.

 

[C.Love]

Ive been thinking about a mishimoto radiator and oil cooler. The price seems right. I have yet to hear much, good or bad, about them as they relate to mustangs.

Running all out for 5 hours seems to be a good testament for the radiator though.

 

[Pentalab]

On the 2010-2012 cars...the oem upper grille blocks off 80% of the airflow. I replaced it with a 7 bar grille.. ( mr body kit..uses 6 mounts instead of 4 that the roush uses). The 7 bar upper grille also eliminated the 2 x 90 deg bends into the air intake.."snorkel"... ( my boost went up .6 psi cuz of that..when at >50 mph).

The ceramic coated JBA LT's and mating JBA high flow catted H section reduced the eng bay temps by at least 40 deg F. B4...my steeda STB was blazing hot....not it's barely warm.

The oem cats are at the base of the eng bay..and hit 1850 F per the aeroforce gauges. The new cats are right below the driver's seat..after the LT's. After shutting then eng off... I can touch any of the 8 x primary tubes on the LT's..with my fingers pushed down hard on em..after just 3 mins..without burning my fingers.

100% distilled water plus 2 x jugs of redline water wetter in the eng rad works wonders. In the SCT X3... I can adjust the threshold of the high and low speed eng fan. You can also set the high speed fan to a lower threshold than the low speed fan ( I have not tried this ..yet). For road racing..the high speed fan should be on full bore at all times...easy to do if you set the high speed fan threshold to kick in with a water temp of 180 deg F. I think the low speed fan is adjustable from 170-220F..and the high speed fan is adjustable from 180-230 deg F. Now this is with my tune from VMP.. VMP unlocks all sorts of stuff in the SCT-X3 I bought from them.

Some form of heat extraction on the hood would relieve pressure build up below the hood....esp when a 7 bar grille is used..and also dump a lot of heat.

The FRPP oil cooler that uses 210 deg F eng coolant to..."cool" the oil is fubar. Use a real oil cooler, even a small one. With thicker oils..like 5w-50... oil pressure will be higher vs 5W-20. No big deal..since the flow rate is the same in both cases. The oil pump just has to work harder..and eat up more hp from the crank..to force the thicker oil through. RP-10W-40 would be pretty good for sustained high rpm use. Or a quality 5W-50 oil from another vendor.

 

[csamsh]

The oil pump just has to work harder..and eat up more hp from the crank..to force the thicker oil through. RP-10W-40 would be pretty good for sustained high rpm use. Or a quality 5W-50 oil from another vendor.

Doesn't the efficiency of a PD pump increase with viscosity?

 

[Corpo]

Problem with a thicker oil is it is harder to push. So you hit the relief valve opening pressure sooner and flow oil slower through the engine.

 

[Pentalab]

Problem with a thicker oil is it is harder to push. So you hit the relief valve opening pressure sooner and flow oil slower through the engine.

I think the idea is the thicker oil will thin out when at high temps. Most of these 50 W oils will shear down to 40 W pretty fast. Ford and Roush say to use 5W-50 in their track version cars...which use the same 5.0 L eng as the plane jane GT's that use 5W-20. I believe at 300deg F... 50W oil is going to thin out pretty quick.

The real fix is an oil cooler....with a thermostat. The cheap and dirty fix is to use 40/50 weight oil....... or a combo of both.

 

[2008 V6]

Cooling mods: Mezeire pump, Mishimoto radiator, FR500S air deflectors, heater core delete, remote oil filter (FL1A) with -10AN lines. Distilled water, with Water Wetter additive.

Dave – What is the flow capacity of your Mezeir pump?

First thing I did was change to a Mishimoto Radiator - then a remote oil cooler and remote 185 degree thermostat. Works well but my Mishimoto radiator started to leak during the first track outing. I used Bars leak at the track, which fixed the problem, then flushed the system when I got home. Poor weld at the leak area but I never repaired it. No more leaks for the last 2.5 years. I haven’t ducted the radiator – no need since I upgraded but I also have a different engine combo. The Mishimoto radiator has a life time warrantee -
A vented hood will improve thing a great deal – cooling + aero.

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Dave – What is the flow capacity of your Mezeir pump?

First thing I did was change to a Mishimoto Radiator - then a remote oil cooler and remote 185 degree thermostat. Works well but my Mishimoto radiator started to leak during the first track outing. I used Bars leak at the track, which fixed the problem, then flushed the system when I got home. Poor weld at the leak area but I never repaired it. No more leaks for the last 2.5 years. I haven’t ducted the radiator – no need since I upgraded but I also have a different engine combo. The Mishimoto radiator has a life time warrantee -
A vented hood will improve thing a great deal – cooling + aero.

Flow rate: No idea, but sufficient, from practical evidence. I had considered going back to stock, then asked myself "why?" This is one of those "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" type deals. I do carry the stock pump in with my spares kit.

And agreed on the hood venting. I've got a stock hood, just haven't worked up the testicular fortitude to start carving on it.

 

[2008 V6]

Flow rate: No idea, but sufficient, from practical evidence. I had considered going back to stock, then asked myself "why?" This is one of those "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" type deals. I do carry the stock pump in with my spares kit.

And agreed on the hood venting. I've got a stock hood, just haven't worked up the testicular fortitude to start carving on it.

Thanks Dave

 

[mitch]

Good thread..
As I've posted elsewhere, I'll be tracking my "New to me" 07 GT/CS.
My last track car had tons of mods,
This time I will track each mod as I run the car, and make the mods.

First event is in 2 weeks at Sebring. It is always good and Freakin Hot!! I'm hoping it stays under 220.

Only cooling mod is flushed the antifreeze, filled with distilled water and bottle of WW. By the way... if 1 bottle of WW is good, is 2 bottles better?? More glycol??

PS. My American Iron buddy has a Coyote in his 97 Cobra. With the right cooling mods, ie: heat extractor hood, huge opening in the front, etc., during 40 min. race, in the florida heat, he runs between 198-208!

 

[Sky Render]

On the 2010-2012 cars...the oem upper grille blocks off 80% of the airflow. I replaced it with a 7 bar grille.. ( mr body kit..uses 6 mounts instead of 4 that the roush uses). The 7 bar upper grille also eliminated the 2 x 90 deg bends into the air intake.."snorkel"... ( my boost went up .6 psi cuz of that..when at >50 mph).

I swear, you post up more unsubstantiated bullshit than anyone.

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[NoTicket]

I swear, you post up more unsubstantiated bullshit than anyone.

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It has crossed my mind that it is a troll account.