Skwerl's first hot rod

[lethe]

What cams are you running?
You're in Everett? Damn, me too!! LOL

I have livernois stage 3 blower cams. Sounds like they are pretty similar to some of comps grinds.... I'm in SE Everett, close to hwy 9 and cathcart way.

They are basically a comp 127500 with a 113 lsa. I'm running the same cams with 6 degrees of retard ground in. They work great for my na setup.

The last I spoke with you they were working with your turbo. Is that still the case or did you pull the turbo?

I'm still running them and will continue to do so. I removed the turbo a few days ago and it's on it's way back to precision right now. I ran them before for a while after installing my new motor and they seem to work good in n/a form too. I don't have any low speed/rpm issues with them.

 

[lethe]

After 3 months and now that I'm shopping for cams, my tuner says he doesn't think my cams are the problem. He thinks the issue is caused by the larger port area of the heads. I don't know what to do any more. All I want is a car that will idle correctly. Unfortunately at this point every single thing I try to do to move in that direction is fucking expensive and I can't get any sort of consensus as to WTF the problem actually is. Fuck me.

Do you still have a set of stock cams you could swap in? It might give you a idea if it is indeed a cam issue or not.

 

[BruceH]

We have you spec'd out. E-mail sent.

Is there any chance you can post up the cam card? Are they basically a version of your stage 3 blower cams with a little more lsa? Where is the intake center line at?

 

[BadPiggy]

Personally...I'd toss the stock cams back in and give them a try with those heads. Those cams are relatively cheap since you already own them. You've opened up the flow with the heads and headers. I don't think you'll lose much anywhere except top end. Give them a try before you start blowing more money. Just my opinion.

 

[AutoXRacer]

Those what I call stage 3 heads are race heads, meant for big cams!!

I spoke with FRPP and they did not recommend those heads for a street car. But you can make them work, it will just take Justin time to figure out a tune for them. I have never liked the hot rods as they are useless under 2,000 RPM. I have met quite a few people that ended tossing them due to not being able to cruise without issues under 2,000 RPM. You really have to change your driving style and its not worth it personally to me.

You've got some excellent choices in cams that will provide power and not have idling issues. The thing is that you will lose the potential of your heads...basically not taking full advantage of them.

Don't despair, you'll get there!! At least you are not rebuilding a brand new 1yr old motor. sigh lol

 

[GallopingFord]

Personally...I'd toss the stock cams back in and give them a try with those heads. Those cams are relatively cheap since you already own them. You've opened up the flow with the heads and headers. I don't think you'll lose much anywhere except top end. Give them a try before you start blowing more money. Just my opinion.

I agree with Chris. I would put these back in for the time being. I know it won't be 100% ideal, but it is better to get the car running normally again.

 

[skwerl]

Take a step back so I can move forward? Probably a good idea. Although I don't relish the thought of dealing with those phasers two more times. Every time I touch them one ends up going bad and needs replacement. I've already been through 5 phasers and they aren't cheap. My current phasers have limiters in them so I might as well buy two new phasers because at least one will die if I pull them apart again (just my luck). I can buy an entire timing set for the cost of two phasers.

 

[skwerl]

So today I took a step back and decided to see if the car would still run on the race tune. I think a big part of my issue is that I had some sort of engine miss the last time I had it on the dyno and Justin was trying to tune it out. Now that the miss is gone the tune is no longer accurate. He never got to the race tune because the missing issue. So today I went back and tried every single tune I have including the race tune. On the race tune it runs great, no surging or stumbling at idle when I come to a stop. It runs good enough that I probably don't need to change the cams. The engine miss seems to be gone, don't know what it was or what fixed it. Now I just need to get on Justin's schedule (again) so he can get the 93 tune to run like the race tune.

I also swapped out the left front strut this morning. The car handles much better and no longer pulls to the right. Still has a vibration from the bent rim but the new rim should be here any day. Once the rim is here I'll take it down to have the tire swapped and get it aligned.

 

[stkjock]

Maybe just run the race tune and pull a few degrees of timing? Unless the fuel it's for has a very different stoich

 

[AutoXRacer]

Weird, whats different between the race tune and street tune?

Typically the race tune just has more timing and more fuel (due to higher boost).

 

[skwerl]

The last time I was at Justin's was when I had the ignition issue and the car was missing badly. All I can think is that Justin tried to tune it out, then when the issue went away the tune was no longer accurate. He was also tuning for the new smaller blower pulley, headers and ported blower inlet.

As I said above the car wasn't running right so we never touched the race tune. Now the race tune is the only one that idles correctly and doesn't surge when I come to a stop. It sucks that my gremlin electrical issue happened while we were trying to tune the car.

 

[AutoXRacer]

The last time I was at Justin's was when I had the ignition issue and the car was missing badly. All I can think is that Justin tried to tune it out, then when the issue went away the tune was no longer accurate. He was also tuning for the new smaller blower pulley, headers and ported blower inlet.

As I said above the car wasn't running right so we never touched the race tune. Now the race tune is the only one that idles correctly and doesn't surge when I come to a stop. It sucks that my gremlin electrical issue happened while we were trying to tune the car.

Sounds like you may be OK then. From what you are saying, it sounds like your street tunes are just off and need to be reset to previous misfire event/condition.

Next step is to create a street tune from your current race tune and you should be golden!!

 

[stang67]

Not sure what people have been experiencing with the hot rod cams. Butmy car ran great never had any low rpm problem. The tune was done by bama

 

[Pentalab]

Not sure what people have been experiencing with the hot rod cams. Butmy car ran great never had any low rpm problem. The tune was done by bama

Did you also use high performance ported heads ?

BTW... you folks that use FRPP "hot rod cams"... do you notice a loss of bottom end TQ ? The story I heard from 2 folks using FRPP hot rod cams was the gas mileage dropped 1-2 mpg on they hwy....and a whole bunch more around town.

Jimbo

 

[BadPiggy]

Not sure what people have been experiencing with the hot rod cams. Butmy car ran great never had any low rpm problem. The tune was done by bama

Mine bucks like a MOFO between 1-2k RPM.

Did you also use high performance ported heads ?

BTW... you folks that use FRPP "hot rod cams"... do you notice a loss of bottom end TQ ? The story I heard from 2 folks using FRPP hot rod cams was the gas mileage dropped 1-2 mpg on they hwy....and a whole bunch more around town.

Jimbo

My mileage sucks donkey dong. Terrible.
Before the Hot Rods, I could drive to Nashville (150 miles) on about 1/2 tank. Now it uses about 3/4 tank.

 

[Timmbo]

HATE to lose a fellow Hot Rod cam guy! It will be interesting to see what IAT's I wind up with keeping my Hot Rods on the KB. I have the AFCO twin fan like you as well as the xtra capacity Roush reservoir. Good luck in whatever you choose!

 

[stang67]

I didn't notice much if any mileage drop I live in Columbus Ohio and I drive the car to Madisonville tenn got real good mileage close to 400 a tank

Not sure how the cams were installed in everybodies car lock outs degree mine was a frpp hot rod complete engine

 

[BruceH]

Did you also use high performance ported heads ?

BTW... you folks that use FRPP "hot rod cams"... do you notice a loss of bottom end TQ ? The story I heard from 2 folks using FRPP hot rod cams was the gas mileage dropped 1-2 mpg on they hwy....and a whole bunch more around town.

Jimbo

MPG really depends on the tuner imo. The intake valve opening is shifted about 25 degrees iirc. If the tuner takes the time to plot the valve timing events and accounts for them it makes a difference. If they just plug in value files you will get crappy mpg because of when the ecu thinks the valves are opening vs when they really are.

 

[Pentalab]

Around town.... I can go 150 miles..till I'm down to 1/4 tank. 200 miles till it's empty ( IE: 50 miles for every 1/4 tank). Oem 4.6L eng with Roush M90 blower....with VMP tune. Works out to 15.1 mpg (imperial gallon). That's 12.61 mpg..based on US gallons. That's around town.

Most I get on the hwy..in OD....cruising @ 50 mph, is 26-27 mpg (imperial gallon) . (356 miles per tank). (22.51 mpg..based on US gallons.) At 70 mph cruising, the mileage drops off........... and really drops off at 80-100 mph cruising. These cars are as streamlined as a brick.

Both Ford and Roush had the tune set so the car would go into OD (5th) @ 30 mph... 1000 rpm with a 3.31 rear gear. Car is an auto so the tranny would toggle between 4th + 5th. Fix was to shut off the OD. The VMP fix was to tweak the tune so OD won't happen till it hits 40 mph.

Jimbo

 

[Pentalab]

MPG really depends on the tuner imo. The intake valve opening is shifted about 25 degrees iirc. If the tuner takes the time to plot the valve timing events and accounts for them it makes a difference. If they just plug in value files you will get crappy mpg because of when the ecu thinks the valves are opening vs when they really are.

Ok, how does all of that tie into the variable valve timing on these cars ?
I thought the intake valve timing could be shifted by the ecu across a 30 deg range ? ( on the 11-14 cars, intake valves can be shifted across 30 deg range..and 50 degs on the exhaust valves.

Jimbo