Should BMR make an axle tube brace for the S197?
- Thread starter fdjizm
- Start date
05stroker
Never enough power guy!
I may need one soon...
OK...I was wrong. The flat part of the flange where the paint spot was isn't off 2*, it is off ~1*. The proper place to measure on the pinion flange with the drive shaft in the car is off the backside of the flange using a piece of square tubing. Comparison pics:
Measuring off the bottom of the flange:
Off the back of the flange:
A pic using square tubing with the angle finder on the back of the flange:
Hopefully this helps those looking to set the proper pinion angle.
Measuring off the bottom of the flange:
Off the back of the flange:
A pic using square tubing with the angle finder on the back of the flange:
Hopefully this helps those looking to set the proper pinion angle.
Thanks for sharing. I've never found that to be true.
I will double check next week when I do the pinion angle vid.
I've always used the actual flange with the DS off. In the video, I am going to show people where to measure with and without a DS in the car. Last time we did that comparison, the flat bottom matched the front of the flange. Could be operator error, of course.
I will double check next week when I do the pinion angle vid.
I've always used the actual flange with the DS off. In the video, I am going to show people where to measure with and without a DS in the car. Last time we did that comparison, the flat bottom matched the front of the flange. Could be operator error, of course.
I was fortunate enough to have the "Box 'o parts" car here today to assist with our pinion angle video.
While doing so, I also measured his pinion flange (the flat spot with the mark) and compared it - and I am not seeing how you are getting those measurements, to be honest, wbt.
Both our car, and the box 'o parts car have the same angle on the machined flat spot, compared to the back of the flange. And also the front of the flange.
Our 2005 did, our 2006, and our 2007 did as well.
It could possibly be an OEM tolerance range, I am not sure.
I will also be going over this in our video - so that will show everything on film.
What I will say is, getting the proper measurement on that flat machined portion, isn't the easiest thing in the world.
The tens of thousands of customers who have followed my advice, have not seen any ill affects from my recommendation, so I will likely continue to do so.
The angles are "slightly" off for the image, but, I checked to see the difference, and it was very minimal, very. You'll see it appears that it may be 1/2 degree or so off in the picture, but they are exactly identical.
Of course, the video we shoot, will clarify further.
While doing so, I also measured his pinion flange (the flat spot with the mark) and compared it - and I am not seeing how you are getting those measurements, to be honest, wbt.
Both our car, and the box 'o parts car have the same angle on the machined flat spot, compared to the back of the flange. And also the front of the flange.
Our 2005 did, our 2006, and our 2007 did as well.
It could possibly be an OEM tolerance range, I am not sure.
I will also be going over this in our video - so that will show everything on film.
What I will say is, getting the proper measurement on that flat machined portion, isn't the easiest thing in the world.
The tens of thousands of customers who have followed my advice, have not seen any ill affects from my recommendation, so I will likely continue to do so.
The angles are "slightly" off for the image, but, I checked to see the difference, and it was very minimal, very. You'll see it appears that it may be 1/2 degree or so off in the picture, but they are exactly identical.
Of course, the video we shoot, will clarify further.
Last edited:
It's obvious in the pics where I am placing the angle finder. Due to the angle of your pics no one can discern if there is a difference especially if we are talking ~1* (your pics are horrible FWIW). This is specifically why I took the pics at the angle I did (which wasn't easy and was done with a crappy cell phone...).
The proper way to measure pinion angle with the driveshaft in the car is the method I described. I would venture to say the "tens of thousands" of customer's you have personally spoken with or interacted with are ~1* off using your method. That isn't going to make a hill of beans for the average guy but when we are talking solid mounts/rod/spherical ends it does matter.
Come on Kelly....I am just a hobby shopist, this is your specialty.
BTW - if that is a "box of parts" customer car in the pics they need to invest in better drive line mods to include an aftermarket driveshaft and an ARB (hopefully why they were there).
Again, I will clarify in the video. If you don't want to take my word for it, I will lose no hair - or even sleep for that matter.
We were doing some things to the box 'o parts car in the parking lot yesterday, and yes - it was difficult to do what I did with the car barely high enough to fit my fat ass underneath it.
I am shooting the pinion angle video tomorrow, on our lift, with our 2011 GT. I will show people where to measure with, or without the DS in the car.
The spot with the DS in the car is where I showed above in the pic.
If you want to get technical - which hopefully you do.
How much exactly does your pinion come up under load? Who is to say yours is correct? Do you monitor it electronically?
I am all ears.
CPRsm
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2011
- Posts
- 3,043
- Reaction score
- 1
Keep your day job with a disclaimer in your sig.
"Hobbyist may shoot off mouth and be dead wrong."
I have one here without a driveshaft. I measured the driveshaft mounting surface to the same flange surface he's talking about and get no more than .5 of a degree difference, in multiple spots. Your own picture shows only a difference of .5 degrees. You split hairs over what you think is one degree and use a piece of square tubing as an extension. I bet that square tubing is oh so perfectly true. Nice job Dr Perfect lol
As I stated before, from 220+mph Standing Mile cars, to 7-second race cars, to some serious road course cars - and all the customers in the middle, we have never seen an issue with measuring the pinion flange how we do, and recommend.
The more important question, is, what exactly IS the proper pinion angle?
I will be the first to admit that I do not ask each customer I assist over the phone, to datalog electronically, their pinion angle under various driving conditions. This is the only true way to tell someone "exactly" what to set their pinion angle to.
It's all a big guess - to be completely honest. We have gone off of years of "standards" used in the aftermarket performance industry. 4-Links, Triangulated 4-Links, T/A Suspensions, etc.
The other question is - if we know all of the factors involved, for truth/fact.....still, what is the best pinion angle?
Do we set it specifically for WOT conditions? Partial load? Daily driving?
If you have a -2 degree pinion angle....and take the car to the track 1 time a month, well, that 99% of the time you are driving around, you are introducing unnecessary bind into your drivetrain.
If you set it at -1 or 0...and have a good angle while driving....then go to the track and run a positive, binding, angle.....well? What is more important?
Or - we can argue about maybe 1/2 degree. I'm down!
The more important question, is, what exactly IS the proper pinion angle?
I will be the first to admit that I do not ask each customer I assist over the phone, to datalog electronically, their pinion angle under various driving conditions. This is the only true way to tell someone "exactly" what to set their pinion angle to.
It's all a big guess - to be completely honest. We have gone off of years of "standards" used in the aftermarket performance industry. 4-Links, Triangulated 4-Links, T/A Suspensions, etc.
The other question is - if we know all of the factors involved, for truth/fact.....still, what is the best pinion angle?
Do we set it specifically for WOT conditions? Partial load? Daily driving?
If you have a -2 degree pinion angle....and take the car to the track 1 time a month, well, that 99% of the time you are driving around, you are introducing unnecessary bind into your drivetrain.
If you set it at -1 or 0...and have a good angle while driving....then go to the track and run a positive, binding, angle.....well? What is more important?
Or - we can argue about maybe 1/2 degree. I'm down!
Unreal
Senior Member
Less pinion angle talk, more brace building IMO.
Hell no I won't take your word for it. Another instance where you were proven wrong. Add a disclaimer to the video that your recommended measurement point with the D/S in the car will be ~1* off instead of leading people to assume, "Kelly said it is right so it must be.".
Where I set my pinion angle and my reasoning to do so is my business. That isn't what the discussion is about. Obviously my shit works (see signature).
...and here comes the mouthpiece for Kelly Aiken.
By your own admission the two surfaces measure different. Goddamn what a revelation! That was my point the whole time. Thanks for the confirmation in a condescending way.
Look at my pics closer instead of just glancing at them. There is a clear and discernible 1* difference with my measurements. When setting pinion angle with the D/S in the car using the correct method, I don't just measure once. You know...measure twice, cut once.
You guys are so intelligent why not take a square and compare the front of the pinion flange to the spot Kelly is incorrectly telling everyone to measure from? Post a clear pic with a light behind where the square edge meets the bottom of the flange.
My money is ready anytime bro!
skwerl
tree hugger
wbt, who shit in your corn flakes this morning? This thread isn't even about pinion angles, just look at the damn thread title! Maybe if you ease up a little, you won't make people bristle up just reading your posts. But at this point I'm simply ignoring everything you posted just because you're being an asshole for no good reason.
CPRsm
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2011
- Posts
- 3,043
- Reaction score
- 1
Says tweedle dee of the pair. Nope, nothing to do with him. Just pop in whenever you decide to be an asshole for no reason. Could have just as easily said you got something different than him. He even thanked you for sharing and you went full retard again, as usual....and here comes the mouthpiece for Kelly Aiken.
No problem, anytime.
What I said was there NO MORE than .5 degree difference. I would still call it zero based on the fact we are measuring a CAST surface. There is always a variance. You're claiming they are completely different
Says the guy using square tubing instead of a square. Nice job.
I suggest you heed your own advice and use a square. With two different tools my measurements come out perpendicular. At most I see what you MIGHT be able to call .5 degrees measuring on multiple spots around the flange. And that could just be a tiny piece of metal stuck the magnetic base that didn't wipe away. The inside, is the same every time. As expected since it's machined.
Similar threads
Support us!
Support Us - Become A Supporting Member Today!
Click Here For Details