Had the Bullitt on the Dyno for the first time (results)

[skwerl]

With a tiny pulley, throttle body, etc. I topped out at 435hp with the M90.

 

[TRC51]

With a tiny pulley, throttle body, etc. I topped out at 435hp with the M90.

Exactly.... that's about all I want so I am not running the ragged edge of the limits of the motor. If I decide more is needed, it would be another level of commitment.

 

[Stephen31201]

Didn't realize you had already bought the TB. But $1k for a pulley and tune sounds really high. Be sure to post your results. I am really curious as to the numbers with those adds.

 

[TRC51]

Didn't realize you had already bought the TB. But $1k for a pulley and tune sounds really high. Be sure to post your results. I am really curious as to the numbers with those adds.

The $1K includes the tuner, the JDM pulley, plugs, a new air filter/intake and a custom tune from JDM. However, I could see why would assume $1K would be a lot for a pulley and tune. That would be nuts!

 

[eighty6gt]

This thread makes me think I should really re-list my Steeda intake. It works with M90's, and I'd basically give it away. I thought all those M90 guys were gone!

I hope my TVS starts paying dividends when I crank up the boost over 10 psi.

 

[Pentalab]

The FRPP twin 62mm is a nice piece of polished bling, but you will not get another 20-30 hp with it, not a chance, not with an M90. Maybe 5-7 hp. ( perhaps another .5 psi boost). If you install the 2.49" pulley + mating larger 90mm idler, LT's, twin 62mm TB, then chop out the vanes in the airbox lid, plugs 1 heat range colder, then a 93 tune, you should see 450-460 rwhp. Removing the vanes in the airbox lid was a JDM idea, and works, good for another 7 rwhp. But it has to be tuned for the removed vanes. No big deal. You can do any or all of this in one shot, or in stages. Do it all in one shot, then less tuning involved. LT's will also require a tune, and ditto with the smaller 2.49" pulley.

Which HE did you get with the M90? Is it the larger 18'" tall x 21" wide one..or the real small one? I assume you have the 2009 version..with the real long CAI tube going to the pass side, with blower elbow also on pass side.

If you have the small roush HE, you may well have issues in warm + hot wx. It needs the bigger HE, whether you use the oem 73mm pulley....or the 2.49" pulley.

 

[Stephen31201]

The $1K includes the tuner, the JDM pulley, plugs, a new air filter/intake and a custom tune from JDM. However, I could see why would assume $1K would be a lot for a pulley and tune. That would be nuts!

Now that more like it

 

[TRC51]

This thread makes me think I should really re-list my Steeda intake. It works with M90's, and I'd basically give it away. I thought all those M90 guys were gone!

I hope my TVS starts paying dividends when I crank up the boost over 10 psi.

I know this site is about top notch performance, and I love that. But I have to say... you can pick up one of these M90's for what... $2500 - $3k used? That's cheap money to get a 3V to 385hp. Then add in another $1K for the JDM stuff and that takes your 260whp to 430whp for around $4K. That seems like a great deal for the average 3V owner.... to me anyway.

The FRPP twin 62mm is a nice piece of polished bling, but you will not get another 20-30 hp with it, not a chance, not with an M90. Maybe 5-7 hp. ( perhaps another .5 psi boost). If you install the 2.49" pulley + mating larger 90mm idler, LT's, twin 62mm TB, then chop out the vanes in the airbox lid, plugs 1 heat range colder, then a 93 tune, you should see 450-460 rwhp. Removing the vanes in the airbox lid was a JDM idea, and works, good for another 7 rwhp. But it has to be tuned for the removed vanes. No big deal. You can do any or all of this in one shot, or in stages. Do it all in one shot, then less tuning involved. LT's will also require a tune, and ditto with the smaller 2.49" pulley.

Which HE did you get with the M90? Is it the larger 18'" tall x 21" wide one..or the real small one? I assume you have the 2009 version..with the real long CAI tube going to the pass side, with blower elbow also on pass side.

If you have the small roush HE, you may well have issues in warm + hot wx. It needs the bigger HE, whether you use the oem 73mm pulley....or the 2.49" pulley.

Remember my intent is to stay below the 450whp rumored threshold. That said, I am not sure I need the other add ons like long tubes. In truth, I have considered skipping the pulley and tune and going with cams and a tune with the TB. That would get me around 410 - 420, but then I have to get the GT500 pumps to run them. I guess I am trying to sort the best way to get to ~430 - 450whp and keep the motor safe. Not sure on the HE size, but I will check it tonight.

 

[skwerl]

Stock fuel pump is good to almost 500hp. You won't need the GT500 fuel pumps no matter what you do unless you get a bigger blower.

 

[bcb06gt]

^^+1. Just do a wire upgrade and keep the stock pump if you are going for 425-430rwhp. My 430rwhp is with the stock pump.

To keep the motor safe....Good tune, good/upgraded HE and motor at 425-430rwhp. Yeah, some people claim 450 but look at what that brings. You need a BAP or GT500 pumps, different pulley and running the motor closer to the safety limit. All for 20HP. Not worth it to me. I now have 80K on the motor with the blower and another 15K NA for a total of 95K miles.

 

[BruceH]

I know this site is about top notch performance, and I love that. But I have to say... you can pick up one of these M90's for what... $2500 - $3k used? That's cheap money to get a 3V to 385hp. Then add in another $1K for the JDM stuff and that takes your 260whp to 430whp for around $4K. That seems like a great deal for the average 3V owner.... to me anyway.




Remember my intent is to stay below the 450whp rumored threshold. That said, I am not sure I need the other add ons like long tubes. In truth, I have considered skipping the pulley and tune and going with cams and a tune with the TB. That would get me around 410 - 420, but then I have to get the GT500 pumps to run them. I guess I am trying to sort the best way to get to ~430 - 450whp and keep the motor safe. Not sure on the HE size, but I will check it tonight.

HP isn't necessarily the motor killer. The tune, iats, and fueling have a whole lot to do with it. Spinning a blower to max output is never a good idea imo. Probably one of the best things you could do for more power and safety would be to run E85. It doesn't detonate and it burns cooler.

You would need to address fueling concerns with E85 but that's it. I would guess based on experience that just a switch to E85 and a tune would get you close to where you want to be. A set of take off 47lb injectors would handle it easy. Stock pump with a 8 gauge wire and bap should handle the pump side. You would be into it about $350 at most not counting the tune and tuner. You have to buy the tune and tuner no matter what you do.

 

[Pentalab]

Remember my intent is to stay below the 450whp rumored threshold. That said, I am not sure I need the other add ons like long tubes. In truth, I have considered skipping the pulley and tune and going with cams and a tune with the TB. That would get me around 410 - 420, but then I have to get the GT500 pumps to run them. I guess I am trying to sort the best way to get to ~430 - 450whp and keep the motor safe. Not sure on the HE size, but I will check it tonight.

Forget the cams + GT-500 pump. All you require is the simple 10 ga wire upgrade. Then your fuel pump duty cycle will drop like a rock.
Instead of the pulley mod, I installed the jba ceramic lt's + hi-flow cats, K+N panel filter, 10 ga wire mod, DSS-DS, FRPP twin 62mm TB, and a 94 tune. I end up with the same 5.8 psi as before. The increase in rwtq will throw you into the back seat. You would be sitting at 425 rwhp. My FPDC is 80% @ 6.2 kprm....so plenty of fuel pump capacity left. If you want more, chop out the vanes in the airbox lid, that's good for another 7rwhp.

The LT's is the one mod that made a helluva big difference. The problem with the bullitt exhaust is the 2.5" diam disc that ford welded dead center, inside the H section.....with a puny 3/8" hole dead center in the middle of the disc. Any after market H will have no disc, and a full 2.5".

By not going to the smaller blower pulley, you won't have high IAT's, not with < 6 psi boost..provided you have a half decent HE. The roush HE used on the 05-09 cars is way too small. The 2010 got the bigger 18" tall x 21" wide HE. If you use the smaller 2.49" pulley, (your boost will increase to just under 9 psi), the M90 is then operating well out of it's eff curve, generating loads of heat. Combined with the semi usless roush HE, iat's will be too high in warm wx, timing gets pulled, and power drops a bunch, and you are back to square one.

The smaller pulley only works in blower mode. The LT's, bigger TB, chopped out airbox vanes, one piece DS, 94 tune, all work in both NA..and blower mode.

 

[Stephen31201]

HP isn't necessarily the motor killer. The tune, iats, and fueling have a whole lot to do with it. Spinning a blower to max output is never a good idea imo. Probably one of the best things you could do for more power and safety would be to run E85. It doesn't detonate and it burns cooler.

You would need to address fueling concerns with E85 but that's it. I would guess based on experience that just a switch to E85 and a tune would get you close to where you want to be. A set of take off 47lb injectors would handle it easy. Stock pump with a 8 gauge wire and bap should handle the pump side. You would be into it about $350 at most not counting the tune and tuner. You have to buy the tune and tuner no matter what you do.

^^^^ BEST bang for the buck right there.

 

[eighty6gt]

My IAT's are hardly discernible between an M90 going beyond it's rated speed with the 2.49 pulley on 91 to my newfangled TVS 1.9 idling along with a 3.22+ inch pulley.

 

[TRC51]

^^^^ BEST bang for the buck right there.

Well... yes and no. Long tubes and a new H or X are not cheap... they are more than the simple pulley and tune mod for roughly the same end result. The difference is how it gets there.

Forget the cams + GT-500 pump. All you require is the simple 10 ga wire upgrade. Then your fuel pump duty cycle will drop like a rock.
Instead of the pulley mod, I installed the jba ceramic lt's + hi-flow cats, K+N panel filter, 10 ga wire mod, DSS-DS, FRPP twin 62mm TB, and a 94 tune. I end up with the same 5.8 psi as before. The increase in rwtq will throw you into the back seat. You would be sitting at 425 rwhp. My FPDC is 80% @ 6.2 kprm....so plenty of fuel pump capacity left. If you want more, chop out the vanes in the airbox lid, that's good for another 7rwhp.

The LT's is the one mod that made a helluva big difference. The problem with the bullitt exhaust is the 2.5" diam disc that ford welded dead center, inside the H section.....with a puny 3/8" hole dead center in the middle of the disc. Any after market H will have no disc, and a full 2.5".

By not going to the smaller blower pulley, you won't have high IAT's, not with < 6 psi boost..provided you have a half decent HE. The roush HE used on the 05-09 cars is way too small. The 2010 got the bigger 18" tall x 21" wide HE. If you use the smaller 2.49" pulley, (your boost will increase to just under 9 psi), the M90 is then operating well out of it's eff curve, generating loads of heat. Combined with the semi usless roush HE, iat's will be too high in warm wx, timing gets pulled, and power drops a bunch, and you are back to square one.

The smaller pulley only works in blower mode. The LT's, bigger TB, chopped out airbox vanes, one piece DS, 94 tune, all work in both NA..and blower mode.

Sorry I didn't respond immediately to your PM, but this is SOLID information that I appreciate. I also looked into the LT's based on what JDM told me and they agreed that it would be probably one of the better mods I could make. I just know that install is a giant PITA. I see a few guys saying they wouldn't have bothered had they known... and that makes me second guess that road. I probably won't gut the air box cover.... and the car doesn't come out that often (~2kmi/yr). I like the idea of the lower IAT's and the sound of LT's.... but simplicity is pulling me toward the pulley.

My IAT's are hardly discernible between an M90 going beyond it's rated speed with the 2.49 pulley on 91 to my newfangled TVS 1.9 idling along with a 3.22+ inch pulley.

Great..... now I'm confused.

 

[skwerl]

Snapping out the air vanes in the intake tube is a free 5 minute mod with noticeable results. You do need a minor tune adjustment though. Any good tuner familiar with the setup can adjust your tune without needing datalogs.

On that note, in all the time I had my Bullitt I never datalogged for Justin. If the car acted up I simply told him what it was doing and he adjusted the tune. Whenever we had it on the dyno he was able to review it but I never had any issues with adjustments he made via email.

 

[BruceH]

My IAT's are hardly discernible between an M90 going beyond it's rated speed with the 2.49 pulley on 91 to my newfangled TVS 1.9 idling along with a 3.22+ inch pulley.

You aren't the only one who's had high iats with the 1.9.

 

[eighty6gt]

Well, "high" is relative. They're acceptable, IMO, but there's a definite ceiling to what you are going to be doing with this blower. I see 9 psi now on occasion and will not be pushing much beyond 10.

The only other build with detailed data that I've seen was Brian's, and he just admitted he didn't do any logging.

 

[skwerl]

I did have gauges though, and Justin modified my tune to not pull timing until IAT's reached 165 instead of 135. I usually ran about 150 or so IAT if I remember correctly.

 

[Pentalab]

You aren't the only one who's had high iats with the 1.9.

This baffles me. 86GT only has the 82mm pulley on the VMP TVS-1900.
(they range from 85mm-63mm). He also has the larger roush 18" tall x 21" wide HE....along with the newer 2013/14 GT-500 IC pump. (which turns the de-gas into a jaccuzi). On paper, the new 1900 should have a helluva lot lower blower discharge temps (pre-ic) vs a sped up M90. ( it also uses the high flow elbow). One thing the VMP TVS-1900 does have going for it though is it eats up a lot less hp. That's free hp.

Chopping out the vanes does work with the 2.49" pulley and just under 9 psi boost, like another 7 rwhp. The signal coming from the maf sensor however is slightly distorted with the vanes chopped out, so the tuner has to do a slight tweak. (the vanes were installed to straighten the airflow past the maf sensor). Dunno how effective the chopped out vanes will be with the lower boost, like oem 5.8 psi, but it's a simple mod.

Brian is fortunate he lives 10 miles from VMP. I don't think 86GT has a boost gauge installed, but the 85mm pulley is typ 7.7 psi. The 82mm should be very similar to the 2.49"..c 8.9 psi.