Pinging question

[maz030]

Hi Everyone,

So I installed a Roush CAI and a 93 race tune from BAMA. After a couple WOT pulls I noticed it was making a noise. While at WOT I would hear a metal rattling noise in the Mid - High RPM range. Is this pinging? I believe it is from what I have read. Anyway I switched to my BAMA Performance 87 tune. Did a couple WOT pulls with it. I thought the noise was completely gone but after the 3rd or so pull I noticed a rattle but it was a lot less loud than the original Pinging and only rattles for a split second and does it at around 3000 RPM and again at around 4000 rpm for only a split second and under medium load not just WOT, where as with the 93 tune, it would rattle much louder and for longer and at WOT only (I think only at WOT). The rattle with the 87 tune sounds maybe a tiny bit different where as with the 93 tune it sounded like marbles in a tin can vibrating. It doesn't rattle long enough with the 87 tune for me to really be able to say what it sounds like, but I can say their is a bit of noise at those mentioned RPMs. Do you guys think the slight noise I'm hearing with the 87 tune is also pinging or something else? I parked the car for now as I'm afraid to drive it. Do you think my issue is with the tune, or bad gas? I'm going to call BAMA tomorrow and see what they say. Also do you think I damaged my engine in any way? I did not know what pinging sounded like until after a couple WOT pulls with the 93 tune. I'd say < 10 pulls and driven normally 100 or so miles. I honestly thought I didn't install the intake right and that was causing the rattling. I'm going to install the venturi tube in my Roush CAI and load the stock tune back tomorrow and see if their is any noise at all. Unfortunately I don't have any time to do that today. Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[RocketcarX]

I'm not being a smart ass, I promise, lol, but are you actually running 93 octane? Even bone stock my 08 would spark knock if I used anything less. Shell and Chevron are your best choices for national brands.
How many miles are on your fuel filter? I could be restricting fuel flow a little as well.

 

[46addict]

Try filling up on a near empty tank with 93 from a different gas station. It would be a good time to look over and clean the MAF, throttle body, and change the fuel filter if it hasn't been done recently.

 

[maz030]

Update: I received new tunes from BAMA and loaded the 87 tune. Car still makes noise at 3000 and 4000 RPM for a brief second. I'm really not sure if it's ping or not. I'm gonna have to wait and install the stock airbox this weekend and load the stock tune back on to be sure. If it still is making noise, then I don't think it's ping and it could have always been there and I'm only hearing it now because I was listening for ping since it clearly pinged with the 93 tune. Rocketracerx unless I got bad gas, it's definitely 93 gas. I had been running 93 octane for 2 months prior to the tune. Before when I ran 87, the car would never ping when it was bone stock. 46 addict I will try those things but just to let you know I had a 93 tune on the car two weeks ago before switching intakes and it did not Ping.

 

[BruceH]

One thing that always happens with new mods is that you hear things you never heard before. It's because you are paying far more attention than you did before.

Someone already touched on the gas thing. You never know what you are getting. Stick with a premium brand when using a 93 tune. Even then it's important to pay attention when driving because it really comes down to the guy delivering the fuel. He has to put the correct fuel in the right bulk tank.

Hopefully the knock sensors are still enabled in the tune.

 

[o2sys]

Are you sure you are able to hear this correctly?

When I data log I see some spark knock but after some tests and experiments came to a conclusion it was false knock.

But in those times I never heard anything even paying close attention.

 

[maz030]

So I decided to try the revised 93 race tune just to see if the noise it made on the 87 tune was there with the 93 tune. It is there with the 93 tune and then some. I'm pretty sure it's ping. I think the sensors are sensing it as ping and retarding the timing which is why it only lasts a second when the noise occurs. I think you guys are right and I just got bad gas. I'm pretty sure I used Sunoco(or another name brand gas as I always do with this car) but it was different from the station I always go too though which I know for a fact that they typically have good gas. My DD is an 08 Civic Si. That car requires 91 octane. If I don't use 91 octane or higher and I try to go into vtec(past 6000 rpm), the car will not switch to the high lift cam lobes. I revved it past 6000 rpm to make sure that the gas station I plan on getting gas from next week in my Mustang has good gas. Anyway first thing I'm doing tomorrow is returning the car to stock to see if I hear anything. Then I'm going to datalog my car. BruceH you could be on to something about me hearing things now that were there before. If it still makes noise when stock, I won't be too worried about it. 02Sys, I'm definitely hearing something. Especially since it occurred more with the 93 tune.

 

[redfirepearlgt]

Do you know how to datalog using live linkGen 2? If so set up a config to datalog RPM, Spark advance, Spark advance 2, and knock sensor. This may provide some insight to what you are hearing If BAMA is using the knock sensor technology. A good sign would be the the knock sensor data reads 0 or negative values throughout the RPM range. with the engine temps and IAT's remaining normal.

That would be a good start.

BTW what year and what mileage is on the car?

 

[maz030]

I returned it to stock and I do still hear some faint split second rattling at 3000 and 4000 rpm at partial and WOT. I won't know anything till I datalog it like you mentioned redfirepearlgt. Bama sent me a request and I will take care of it this weekend. Now I'm thinking the noises were probably already there and now that I'm listening harder I can hear it. I know what I initially heard on the race tune before I got revised tunes was definitely pinging since it was loud and at WOT every time I went WOT in the mid-upper rpm range and went away after switching tunes. Year is 07, mileage is just under 120k. No I do not know if the plugs have been changed or not. I bought the car at 114k. I've had it for a few months now. Car idles perfectly and their is no misfires or anything so I think the plugs are fine. I've changed plugs before on cars but I know about the issue these plugs have and i've been weighing my options. I was told if every plug breaks while getting changed it'd be approximately 100$ per plug for labor. That sounds kinda high to me. I'm gonna see what Ford says but I doubt they'd have a decent price if all the plugs break. Believe me I know I should change the plugs just incase they haven't been but I really don't want to break one or pay $800+ for that job. I will change my fuel filter this week also and possibly clean the Throttle body as well. Maybe also run a can of seafoam in the car.

 

[redfirepearlgt]

I've not had experience with a 2,3,or 4V engine with that many miles on one. Someone with experience with higher mileage engines of this type would be better suited to help you. Datalogging however will reveal some things regardless of age. Good luck would love to hear the resolve. I have an opinion but its based on a hunch and not experience so I will not offer it for fear of only muddying the water by guessing.

Get back when you find out.

 

[01yellerCobra]

FWIW, I just pulled the plugs out of an 08 F150 with about 114k on the clock. It was an early build so it had the crappy plugs. I managed to get 7 out without breaking them. I think I rushed the last one and that's why it broke.

 

[46addict]

Theres a guy on the 4.6 Tech forum that was changing plugs with 108k miles. He believed they were original plugs so he used SeaFoam Deep Creep (in an aerosol can) to soak them before attempting to get them loose. He was able to get all 8 out with no issues. Follow the TSB and have the Lisle plug remover tool handy if you don't already have one.

 

[kallar68]

My 2011 5.0 has this same exact rattling at 3-4k rpm. Only mod is a roush intake. I know you have a 4.6 but it's a strange coincidence. I bought the car with the intake already on it and no tuner so I have no way of knowing if it has a tune or switching back to stock. My noise is very faint, I can't hear it with the windows up and ac on but if I have the windows down I can hear it, especially if I'm next to a wall or row of bushes.

 

[maz030]

Thanks for the advice on the plugs guys. I bought some seafoam yesterday and my friend has the Lisle tool and we're gonna change them in 2 weeks. I just put 93 octane from a sunoco in my car. Only added 6 gallons to the 2 gallons that were already in the car(that was sunoco or shell). Gonna put the seafoam in when I get home. I'm also going to change my fuel filter, clean the throttlebody and MAF sensor on thursday since I get to get out of work with sunlight still in the sky that day. I sent my datalogs to Bama last night and they sent me new tunes this afternoon. I haven't loaded them yet. I unfortunately had to drive my mustang today due to someone needing to borrow my DD. I stayed out of the "ping zone" so I'm guessing I didn't do any harm and it's ok to drive as long as I baby it. Kaller68, I can tell you how to check if your car is tuned or not.

On the Roush intake for the 4.6(check if the 5.0 has this too) you get sent an insert to put into the intake tube that restricts the airflow which makes you NOT need a tune to run the intake. Disconnect the intake tube from the throttle body and the cone filter and check if you have the insert or not. The insert would be on the end of the tube where the MAF sensor connects. I can send you a picture if you want. Now I'm really curious since you have the same rattle sound. I may have to install my stock airbox with the stock tune to see if it goes away. When I installed my stock tune, I just put that insert into my roush intake. My noise is faint too, but I definitely can hear it.

 

[kallar68]

I'll have to look up if the 5.0 intake comes with that insert. I guess I'll take a look tomorrow afternoon

 

[o2sys]

Sunoco is not a top tier fuel brand.

 

[maz030]

Oh, I was always under the impression it was. In fact, someone from Bama recommended it to me. What would you consider a top tier fuel brand 02Sys? I tend to stick with Shell and Sunoco usually.

 

[o2sys]

http://www.toptiergas.com/licensedbrands/

I'm not sure how accurate this is and maybe Sunoco is a sub brand of one these.

 

[kallar68]

I looked up the 5.0 roush intake and it does not show that inner restriction tube you described. Now I'm tempted to try and find a stock airbox to see if that is the source of the rattling. It's almost like a jingle for me. I almost want to say it's a pulley jingling at higher rpm, or maybe even a slightly loose heat shield.

 

[maz030]

Thanks 02sys. I'm shocked Costco gas is on that list! kallar68 I just checked and the Roush cai for the 5.0 doesn't require a tune. I think one way you can try to find out if your car has a tune is by test driving a completely stock 5.0 and comparing throttle response.

Update: Received an updated 93 Race tune from Bama after sending in my datalogs. I'm not sure why they only sent me a 93 tune. Anyway I tried it out and it pings at even lower RPM now. I switched it back to the revised 87 tune I received a few days ago. I'm convinced the slight rattle I'm hearing is ping now after this. Anyway when I get home during daylight hours Thursday I'm gonna do all the maintenace stuff to the car minus plugs. If it still pings, I'm gonna load the stock tune AND put the the stock airbox back in which in theory shouldn't make a difference from when I loaded the stock tune with the Roush cai. I'm also gonna go on a long cruise this weekend to let the seafoam do it's thing. If after all that it still pings, I will get the plugs replaced. If it still pings after getting the plugs replaced, I'm gonna just baby the car until I save enough money for a c6 Z06. I know that sounds random but I've always wanted one haha.