Bogging/stalling when coming to a stop, irregular power.

[GlassTop09]

Is it possible to just do the one? Im pretty broke atm.

Yes you can replace just the 1 to get by for now but I'd suggest to not waste a lot of time waiting to replace the rest of them. The walk home may not be so fun the next time..........

I understand the money situation......why I like to test & don't guess before changing out parts.

PS--Just thought of this......kinda hate to type it but I must warn you that a failing coil winding can take out a coil driver in the PCM if it shorts out rendering the PCM useless (hope that 15A fuse #40 in BEC blows before this happens) & have to be replaced so this is a good reason why to not procrastinate getting rid of the rest of these MSD coils & get the OEM's back on the engine. Not my intention to scare you into doing this up front, but you DO need to know what potential you're setting yourself up for if you wait too long.

Your car thus your money................

 

[partypants]

Yes you can replace just the 1 to get by for now but I'd suggest to not waste a lot of time waiting to replace the rest of them. The walk home may not be so fun the next time..........

I understand the money situation......why I like to test & don't guess before changing out parts.

PS--Just thought of this......kinda hate to type it but I must warn you that a failing coil winding can take out a coil driver in the PCM if it shorts out rendering the PCM useless (hope that 15A fuse #40 in BEC blows before this happens) & have to be replaced so this is a good reason why to not procrastinate getting rid of the rest of these MSD coils & get the OEM's back on the engine. Not my intention to scare you into doing this up front, but you DO need to know what potential you're setting yourself up for if you wait too long.

Your car thus your money................

Yeah I just literally do not enough money currently to replace all of them. I have 200$ in my bank until the 25th lol. I just started a new job and was completely misled and lied to about the pay. What I meant though was more will it mess with things to have one OEM coil pack and 7 MSD coil packs?

 

[GlassTop09]

Yeah I just literally do not enough money currently to replace all of them. I have 200$ in my bank until the 25th lol. I just started a new job and was completely misled and lied to about the pay. What I meant though was more will it mess with things to have one OEM coil pack and 7 MSD coil packs?

Technically no since all these aftermarket COP coils are supposedly built to meet the Ford design specs & these are individually seen\operated by the PCM so you shouldn't have any operational issues per se running a mixed set of COP coils.

The real issue is a QA\QC issue of the aftermarket MSD COP coils to hold up to the Ford design\operating specs & for how long before the rest start breaking down as 1 of them already has (aftermarket usually uses cheaper build materials to make their products thus are cheaper overall than OEM whereas Ford has to honor a factory warranty on the vehicles\components they sell thus their MC branded parts are more robust & built to last to comply w\ new vehicle warranty use thus are a much better designed\built\tested part that usually will cost more but will also hold up well & last long thus are cheaper in the long run to use.....under hood operating temps is a big killer of COP coils) & the potential collateral damage to other components caused from their failure(s).....overall cost of ownership is where it's at.

You do what you gotta do to make it work according to your situation.........just understand what the consequences can be from running them this way for extended periods of time........no different than rolling dice......if you roll long enough, you'll eventually hit snake eyes & crap out. How you go about it is up to you.

Hope all works out for you!

 

[JEWC_Motorsports]

Amazon has a single Denso coil for around 30 bucks. Probably need the black boot coils.

 

[DieHarder]

Is it possible to just do the one? Im pretty broke atm.

Hey bub,

Been there before. Do you know if you use the brown or black on your car? Have a complete OEM set (used but good) of Black boots (from a 2006) on the shelf (if I can find them and) if you want them. Just PM me and we'll work out the details.

 

[partypants]

Hey bub,

Been there before. Do you know if you use the brown or black on your car? Have a complete OEM set (used but good) of Black boots (from a 2006) on the shelf (if I can find them and) if you want them. Just PM me and we'll work out the details.

Mine are the black boots with the crappy 2 piece plugs.

 

[DieHarder]

Rgr that. You can switch to 1 piece plugs. There are a couple of options available. I know Brisk (expensive); Champion and 1 or 2 others if you want to switch them out. Otherwise, just loosen/retighten to specs (don't over tighten) once a year with a touch of anti-sieze on the threads will go a long ways towards preventing problems in the future.

 

[dark steed]

Yeah I just literally do not enough money currently to replace all of them. I have 200$ in my bank until the 25th lol. I just started a new job and was completely misled and lied to about the pay. What I meant though was more will it mess with things to have one OEM coil pack and 7 MSD coil packs?

Let me check in my shed, I’ll probably have an entire set of OEM coils you can have for shipping. They’ve just been sitting there for a few years, they are used but good when they were taken off.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DieHarder]

Dark Steed, already taken care of. Shipping these to him later today.

 

[partypants]

Rgr that. You can switch to 1 piece plugs. There are a couple of options available. I know Brisk (expensive); Champion and 1 or 2 others if you want to switch them out. Otherwise, just loosen/retighten to specs (don't over tighten) once a year with a touch of anti-sieze on the threads will go a long ways towards preventing problems in the future.

I did the Autolite HT1s the other day

 

[partypants]

Well having driven it for the first time since the new plugs... it definitely feels much better. No hesitation or anything, but it still bogs when i come to a stop in neutral.

 

[DieHarder]

Let us know how it runs after installing the coils. If it still has issues you'll probably want to have Lito tune it. A lot of us have one of his tunes and our cars run great.

 

[GlassTop09]

Well having driven it for the first time since the new plugs... it definitely feels much better. No hesitation or anything, but it still bogs when i come to a stop in neutral.

Ok this is good to know, but are you still using all the MSD coils (including the 1 that the PCM flagged as weak\bad)? If you are, then you really need to wait until you get the set of replacement coils that DieHarder is sending you on the car to remove the bad coil 1st before going further (the cyl that that weak coil is on isn't firing at its peak thus not getting full combustion thus full cyl pressure to output full TQ at low engine RPM's so the PCM is compensating by readjusting TB blade angle & increasing spark timing to bring up engine TQ to get engine back to set idle speed......remember the fouled spark plug you saw? With that bad coil still in operation you're starting the process of fouling the new plug you just installed......the rest of the plugs condition already eliminates fueling issues.......remember you thought the car was running rich as you posted in your 1st post......the plugs, outside of the 1 fouled plug, said otherwise).

Now, when the coils are replaced\verified operating correctly w\ ALL cylinders firing fully & you're still experiencing engine "bog" (engine idle speed drops below the set idle speed then returns back up to set idle speed) when APP is released & PCM has switched to idle speed control from dashpot speed control once MPH has dropped below approx 4 MPH & in a no-load situation (in neutral), we'll need to find out if this is due to either the PCM's VCT control being too slow to advance the cams back to full advance (0* so engine will be outputting full TQ at low engine speed) or if this is due to PCM's idle speed control (where the TB has a part in this).
The VCT control is easy to test by simply unplugging the VCT solenoids BEFORE starting the engine (this will keep the VCT solenoids in full advance position so when engine is started up & oil pressure comes up & unlocks the cam phasers, the cams should stay in the startup position thus "locking the cams in place". Now you will get a VCT Solenoid Circuit Fail DTC as the PCM won't see the +12v power at the VCT terminals in PCM so just clear this after running the test). Then start the engine as normal then drive the car as normal to see if the engine still does the "bogging" when coming to a stop w\ trans in neutral--if it still does the bogging then this eliminates the VCT system as a contributor which then points to the PCM idle control\TB operation which will then need further testing to pinpoint the exact issue whether it is the TB, the tune or both.......but if it clears up then you'll know the VCT system is the cause which will then need further testing to pinpoint the exact issue within the VCT system.

But you need to rectify the coil issue 1st before doing this test or going any further. I understand your situation thus the need to get your daily back on the road & return your loaner car but some patience here is needed as well.

 

[partypants]

Ok this is good to know, but are you still using all the MSD coils (including the 1 that the PCM flagged as weak\bad)? If you are, then you really need to wait until you get the set of replacement coils that DieHarder is sending you on the car to remove the bad coil 1st before going further (the cyl that that weak coil is on isn't firing at its peak thus not getting full combustion thus full cyl pressure to output full TQ at low engine RPM's so the PCM is compensating by readjusting TB blade angle & increasing spark timing to bring up engine TQ to get engine back to set idle speed......remember the fouled spark plug you saw? With that bad coil still in operation you're starting the process of fouling the new plug you just installed......the rest of the plugs condition already eliminates fueling issues.......remember you thought the car was running rich as you posted in your 1st post......the plugs, outside of the 1 fouled plug, said otherwise).

Now, when the coils are replaced\verified operating correctly w\ ALL cylinders firing fully & you're still experiencing engine "bog" (engine idle speed drops below the set idle speed then returns back up to set idle speed) when APP is released & PCM has switched to idle speed control from dashpot speed control once MPH has dropped below approx 4 MPH & in a no-load situation (in neutral), we'll need to find out if this is due to either the PCM's VCT control being too slow to advance the cams back to full advance (0* so engine will be outputting full TQ at low engine speed) or if this is due to PCM's idle speed control (where the TB has a part in this).
The VCT control is easy to test by simply unplugging the VCT solenoids BEFORE starting the engine (this will keep the VCT solenoids in full advance position so when engine is started up & oil pressure comes up & unlocks the cam phasers, the cams should stay in the startup position thus "locking the cams in place". Now you will get a VCT Solenoid Circuit Fail DTC as the PCM won't see the +12v power at the VCT terminals in PCM so just clear this after running the test). Then start the engine as normal then drive the car as normal to see if the engine still does the "bogging" when coming to a stop w\ trans in neutral--if it still does the bogging then this eliminates the VCT system as a contributor which then points to the PCM idle control\TB operation which will then need further testing to pinpoint the exact issue whether it is the TB, the tune or both.......but if it clears up then you'll know the VCT system is the cause which will then need further testing to pinpoint the exact issue within the VCT system.

But you need to rectify the coil issue 1st before doing this test or going any further. I understand your situation thus the need to get your daily back on the road & return your loaner car but some patience here is needed as well.

I just took it to work instead of my moms car today to see if they can get the busted bolt out, since I work at a dealership. I dont plan on driving it otherwise until i get Mr DieHarder's coils next week.

 

[partypants]

Well i was just told by the service manager they can get to it next wednsday which should be the day after @DieHarder s coils get here so that works out

 

[GlassTop09]

I just took it to work instead of my moms car today to see if they can get the busted bolt out, since I work at a dealership. I dont plan on driving it otherwise until i get Mr DieHarder's coils next week.

Ok no problem....you're doing what you gotta do.

Just got a thought while we're looking at your car & this could involve your family friend......

Does your friend have possession of a smoke leak detector? If he does, then have him run it on your car on the intake side of engine when the engine is cold to check the induction side for any leaks prior getting any potential tuning done to ensure that there isn't any unmetered air getting into system downstream of the MAF sensor & if you find any then get them fixed before having the car retuned.

To make the most of any tuning, you want ALL the air entering your engine to pass thru the MAF section.... not after it......so the PCM can calculate the highest load% thus output the highest HP\TQ AND best drivability performance. The only system outside of the MAF section that the PCM is looking for unmetered air entry is the EVAP system......but this air still didn't pass thru the MAF section so cannot be calc'd into the load%......only accounted for thru the O2 sensor feedback to correct the running AFR back to stoich (14.7 AFR or Lambda 1.0).
This is also why you want to make damn sure that the PCM isn't excessively drawing unmetered air thru the EVAP system into the IM by checking the EVAP CPV for proper sealing (no vacuum thru it when it is closed) then monitoring the EVAP operation thru a scan tool's live data while the car is idling at full hot idle so EVAP will be active & operating......which too many folks ignore IMHO......this will affect the drivability of the car the most during CL operation as the EVAP CPV is cycled open & closed to "purge" the EVAP canister of excess captured fuel vapors.

This smoke test can be done at any time after getting the coils replaced. These cars are getting old & smoke leak detection is the fastest & most thorough method of testing for vacuum leaks. You want to do this on a cold engine compartment as stuff contracts when it's cold so if a leak is present it will show up & won't be hidden by warm\hot components that might close off a leak due to expansion.......winter is THE best time to run smoke leak detection tests......for obvious reasons. This especially is necessary IMHO if you're working on a modded engine as parts have been removed\installed by someone other than you.

You might be amazed at what you can find leaking that you'd never think was an issue & would've never found it if it weren't for the smoke exposing it.........I've been there, done that so am passing the suggestion on to you.

Something else to consider getting done if, for no other reason, to have peace of mind that YOU know all is up to snuff w\ your modded Stang.

 

[partypants]

Ok no problem....you're doing what you gotta do.

Just got a thought while we're looking at your car & this could involve your family friend......

Does your friend have possession of a smoke leak detector? If he does, then have him run it on your car on the intake side of engine when the engine is cold to check the induction side for any leaks prior getting any potential tuning done to ensure that there isn't any unmetered air getting into system downstream of the MAF sensor & if you find any then get them fixed before having the car retuned.

To make the most of any tuning, you want ALL the air entering your engine to pass thru the MAF section.... not after it......so the PCM can calculate the highest load% thus output the highest HP\TQ AND best drivability performance. The only system outside of the MAF section that the PCM is looking for unmetered air entry is the EVAP system......but this air still didn't pass thru the MAF section so cannot be calc'd into the load%......only accounted for thru the O2 sensor feedback to correct the running AFR back to stoich (14.7 AFR or Lambda 1.0).
This is also why you want to make damn sure that the PCM isn't excessively drawing unmetered air thru the EVAP system into the IM by checking the EVAP CPV for proper sealing (no vacuum thru it when it is closed) then monitoring the EVAP operation thru a scan tool's live data while the car is idling at full hot idle so EVAP will be active & operating......which too many folks ignore IMHO......this will affect the drivability of the car the most during CL operation as the EVAP CPV is cycled open & closed to "purge" the EVAP canister of excess captured fuel vapors.

This smoke test can be done at any time after getting the coils replaced. These cars are getting old & smoke leak detection is the fastest & most thorough method of testing for vacuum leaks. You want to do this on a cold engine compartment as stuff contracts when it's cold so if a leak is present it will show up & won't be hidden by warm\hot components that might close off a leak due to expansion.......winter is THE best time to run smoke leak detection tests......for obvious reasons. This especially is necessary IMHO if you're working on a modded engine as parts have been removed\installed by someone other than you.

You might be amazed at what you can find leaking that you'd never think was an issue & would've never found it if it weren't for the smoke exposing it.........I've been there, done that so am passing the suggestion on to you.

Something else to consider getting done if, for no other reason, to have peace of mind that YOU know all is up to snuff w\ your modded Stang.

I have no idea if he does, the last time I saw him before the other week, I was 5, which was 20 years ago lol. I wasnt even the one that contacted him, my grandfather was.

 

[GlassTop09]

Ok so the scanner is an Ancel ad410 and the code was p0352

Just remembered to check up on this scan tool of yours............this is a very good general OBDII scan tool for a DIY'er to own (this scan tool is on par w\ my Foxwell NT301 scan tool as capabilities go but this Ancel AD410 can graph 2 live data PID's on the same screen & it has a separate O2 sensor test function--means it can access\process some specific PCM O2 Sensor Self-Check Mode 5 data--as well as PCM Mode 6 Self-Check data thus is a small step up from my Foxwell NT301 scan tool).

You can do a lot more w\ that $40.00 Ancel AD410 general OBDII scan tool than you think if you acquire a good understanding of how the PCM operates\works so take care of that cheap tool as it can help you out. Take the time to learn it.........if you still have the owner's manual to it, study it or get a .pdf of it off Ancel's web site.

Nowadays the price of these tools doesn't always mean that they don't have capabilities..........technology has improved a lot over the last 20-30 yrs.

 

[partypants]

Just remembered to check up on this scan tool of yours............this is a very good general OBDII scan tool for a DIY'er to own (this scan tool is on par w\ my Foxwell NT301 scan tool as capabilities go but this Ancel AD410 can graph 2 live data PID's on the same screen & it has a separate O2 sensor test function--means it can access\process some specific PCM O2 Sensor Self-Check Mode 5 data--as well as PCM Mode 6 Self-Check data thus is a small step up from my Foxwell NT301 scan tool).

You can do a lot more w\ that $40.00 Ancel AD410 general OBDII scan tool than you think if you acquire a good understanding of how the PCM operates\works so take care of that cheap tool as it can help you out. Take the time to learn it.........if you still have the owner's manual to it, study it or get a .pdf of it off Ancel's web site.

Nowadays the price of these tools doesn't always mean that they don't have capabilities..........technology has improved a lot over the last 20-30 yrs.

Yeah the one I had when i got my first car 5 or 6 years ago i paid the same price for and it didnt have ANY live monitoring afaik... I think it just read codes.

 

[partypants]

Ok so I put in the OEM coils and drove about 5 miles. Still feels much better, not hesitating, power seems good. Still bogging when I decelerate. Sometimes down as low as 300 rpm.