Different brake pads for rain and dry use?

[Chris B.]

I've heard of people switching from Hawk pads to Carbotech pads when it rains and I've heard of pro teams also switching brake pad compounds when it rains. Would it be a good idea for HPDE use to switch pad compounds if its going to be a wet weekend at the track?

Currently I have Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tires for dry track use and I was going to use my Continental Extreme Contact DWS street tires in the rain during track days. Would it be a good idea to switch brake pad compounds for wet weather use?

 

[captdistraction]

I wouldn't. Not at an HPDE level. (and no means a slam on anyone driving in DE)

The thought is that in DE, you should focus on adjusting your driving to the weather conditions versus adjusting the car. I'd go as far as tire changes, but for the brakes I wouldn't give it thought that could be applied to something else like focusing on smoothing some corner entry or being a smoother on mid corner throttle in the wet.

However, rain or shine in racing, I've never changed a pad compound unless the car was doing something in braking that I didn't want it to. I have one car that I have 3 different compounds for that I just varied with them to get the balance just where I wanted it without a proportioning valve.

 

[argonaut]

It's certainly possible for a pad to overwhelm the available grip. I once tried the Carbon Lorain RC8 compound on a 3200lb car shod with worn NT01s on a cool, fall day (dampish track) and they completely overwhelmed the tire. I was into ABS constantly with no ability to modulate. Switching to a "lesser" pad made everything perfect. So the same can happen in the dry vs the wet. But I agree that this shouldn't be the case in a DE environment. Something like the Carbo XP10 will work fine with both tires, wet or dry. A couple weeks ago at Shenandoah I was using the Ferodo DS1.11 compound: Session 1 - wet with Continental Extreme DW, Session 2 - dry with the same Contis, Session 3,4 - dry with Toyo R888. The pads worked very well in all sessions.

Why pick the Continental DWS instead of the DW?

 

[05SonicGT]

I would say simply adjust your braking pressure,
I am using EBC Blue front & rear in rain or dry for track or street - all around good pad !

 

[DusterRT]

I would say simply adjust your braking pressure,
I am using EBC Blue front & rear in rain or dry for track or street - all around good pad !

Tangent: How long have you been running the blues? What are your impressions for street and track? I installed a set a while back but my car has been up on jack stands for a couple months now so I haven't had a chance to try them..

 

[chrumck]

Tangent: How long have you been running the blues? What are your impressions for street and track? I installed a set a while back but my car has been up on jack stands for a couple months now so I haven't had a chance to try them..

I did 7 days already on a set of bluestuff's this season. There's about half of the pads' thickness left. I have GT500 front brakes.

I can say they're very reliable pads but I'll tell more after I compare them with the DTC-60's I have on the shelf waiting to be installed.

Tom

 

[05SonicGT]

Tangent: How long have you been running the blues? What are your impressions for street and track? I installed a set a while back but my car has been up on jack stands for a couple months now so I haven't had a chance to try them..

Used them all last season ~30 track days -
Testing compound & giving input to EBC.
I am very pleased with the final compound - lasts as good or better than Hawk HT 14 I was running - easy on rotors - Good for street as well .

 

[05SonicGT]

I think u will like them - let me know what u think !

 

[Chris B.]

It's certainly possible for a pad to overwhelm the available grip. I once tried the Carbon Lorain RC8 compound on a 3200lb car shod with worn NT01s on a cool, fall day (dampish track) and they completely overwhelmed the tire. I was into ABS constantly with no ability to modulate. Switching to a "lesser" pad made everything perfect. So the same can happen in the dry vs the wet. But I agree that this shouldn't be the case in a DE environment. Something like the Carbo XP10 will work fine with both tires, wet or dry. A couple weeks ago at Shenandoah I was using the Ferodo DS1.11 compound: Session 1 - wet with Continental Extreme DW, Session 2 - dry with the same Contis, Session 3,4 - dry with Toyo R888. The pads worked very well in all sessions.

I got the feeling that the XP12's were a little too much for wet weather use with the Yoko AD08 tires I had on the 2008 GT. The ABS engaged pretty quickly without much pedal movement.

Why pick the Continental DWS instead of the DW?

I also use them as daily driver tires and drive on them to and from the track. They work great in the wet and pretty well in the snow. They even work well on the slightly muddy dirt roads to and form hiking trails and fishign spots. Also, their braking distances on wet roads and dry roads is about the same, according to tirerack's tests, and their autoX lap times in the dry and wet are about the same. I've noticed on the street there is minimal difference in how the tires behave on wet roads in the rain and on dry roads. They are very predicible and consistent.

 

[DusterRT]

Thought I'd follow up since there's next to nothing here about them...have a couple events on the Bluestuff pads now. All in all..very happy. I didn't have the chance to bed them before hitting the track the first time so I had to end my first session early due to fade, but by the last half of the day they were feeling good but I was on crap tires so didn't push too hard.

Second event, everything was good to go. Fresh tires, pads were all set..hard to compare them to the Yellows since it's been over a year since I had them on the track, but I was able to run them pretty hard all day without any fade (caveat: I have some pretty robust ducting for the front brakes).

Probably the best thing about these though is that they're DEAD silent. Not a single squeak or squeal out of them, even before bedding. These are totally streetable pads too; I was expecting a moderate amount of noise and questionable cold performance, but cold bite is also good, probably just as good as the Yellows. They do dust a fair bit, but that seems to be the drawback and I don't think you can escape that with any performance pad. For less than $300 for front/rear pads (with Brembos) I am totally satisfied for my street/DE type use. If they're like the Yellows, rotor life will be pretty good too but it's too soon to tell about that.

 

[JAJ]

Thanks for posting the comments about the Bluestuff pads. I'm thinking of trying them. So far, on my 2011 Brembo, I've run (F/R notation) PFC01/PFC97 (works great, murder on rim finish) and Mintex MXM/EBC Yellowstuff combo's. The MXM/EBC combo was fine at Pacific Raceways but I'm getting incipient pad fade at Mission Raceway outside of Vancouver. According to the IR Thermometer, the MXM/Yellowstuff combo provided balanced brake temperatures front to rear. I have 3" Quantum ducts on the front, no backing plates on the rear.

The Bluestuff was out of stock at my supplier in Toronto, so I ordered up a set of Pagid RS19 ("Pagid Yellow") endurance racing pads for the front (I guess you can you tell that I hang out with a bunch of Porsche guys). The EBC Yellowstuff rears are wearing well, so it might be next year before I have to change them. At that point I'll probably give Bluestuff/Bluestuff a try. I like the EBC pricing and the Yellowstuff has been a pleasant surprise.

 

[captdistraction]

what's the part for the bluestuffs for the late model brembo caliper?

I just did a track day with yellowstuff fronts, DS2500 rears and the fade wasn't bad at all, though I was braking like I knew I had street pads on.

 

[JAJ]

EBC Bluestuff for the D1001 Brembo OEM Ford caliper part number DP51210NDX

Where did you find the DS2500 rears?

 

[DusterRT]

I got all mine on eBay I think, but I can't find them in my purchase history. So now I'm not so sure, I don't have the boxes anymore. I know I used the STi application pads for the Brembos..

 

[Red06GT]

How is the edge crumbling with the Bluestuffs? I ran a couple sets of Yellowstuff pads a few years ago (before going to race pads) and the edges tended to crumble pretty bad after a few track days. I had moved up to Nitto NT-01s so maybe I was just overheating them...