Engine build question?

[stang8psi]

does anyone who has built their own coyote motor know if the main bolts are all torque to yeild bolts? And if they are when doing the arp main bolts do you have to line hone the block for the new bolts for clearences? I know the head bolts are torque to yeild and I have new boss bolts for those but just wondering about the mains since I cannot fiend them on tousley or any ford parts sites.

 

[busarich]

Have You Tried Calling Tousley, That Was Alot Easier Than Going Through Their Site.

 

[lethe]

If you use OE bolts they are TTY. ARP is not TTY.

Here's a link to the FSM on engine assembly that will show you torque specs and which bolts are TTY.

http://iihs.net/fsm/?dir=159&viewfile=Engine.pdf

 

[mr. anderson]

stock are torque to yield, and not arp, don't forget you will need new cam bracket ratainer bolts, as they are also torque to yeild.

 

[DrTriton]

Don't waste your money on the ARP studs. The current 5.0L bottom end is solid even with the stock bolts. On the old pushrod 5.0L the caps would walk around but we don't see it happening on the Coyote motors.

I've disassembled and inspected several after repeated dyno pulls, calibration work and dozens of 1/4 mile passes - they looked perfect, in fact we put the same bearings back in, they looked so good.

My 2 cents....spend your money elsewhere.

 

[mr. anderson]

is that on 700+ rwhp coyotes or near stock hp level ones?

 

[stang8psi]

well most rotating assemblys come with bearings so I'll use the new clivite main bearings. Also called tousley and they have a ford racing main bolt kit for 52 bucks so I picked that up. With the boss 302r head changing kit, boss valve springs, ford racing high rpm pulse ring, And a custom 11.5:1 piston, forged H beam rods, Boss manifold, long tubes, kooks exhaust, should make for a decent High reving 8000k rpm N/A car. Than a nice plate kit with a 150 shot just incase lol..

 

[mr. anderson]

interesting. I'm looking at some of the same stuff, do you know what the boss head change kit is good to, boost wise, with the 11.5:1 compression ratio? I'm probably just going to go with the full livernois rotating assembly with the MMR billet oil pump and call it a day and turn up the boost. heck just those two things the ford rebuild parts should be good for 1000 HP for the block. and I should be able to do all that for under $2500 easily, I'll be happy with that for a couple years.

 

[DrTriton]

is that on 700+ rwhp coyotes or near stock hp level ones?

It's on 700+ RWHP engines.

 

[DrTriton]

well most rotating assemblys come with bearings so I'll use the new clivite main bearings. Also called tousley and they have a ford racing main bolt kit for 52 bucks so I picked that up. With the boss 302r head changing kit, boss valve springs, ford racing high rpm pulse ring, And a custom 11.5:1 piston, forged H beam rods, Boss manifold, long tubes, kooks exhaust, should make for a decent High reving 8000k rpm N/A car. Than a nice plate kit with a 150 shot just incase lol..

You might also consider using the Boss rod and main bearings - they are tri-metal and actually perform very well at high HP levels. If you follow the factory grading spec then you also end up with a nice quiet engine.

Not knocking the Clevites - we use lots of them, but not on Coyote engines.

 

[DrTriton]

interesting. I'm looking at some of the same stuff, do you know what the boss head change kit is good to, boost wise, with the 11.5:1 compression ratio? I'm probably just going to go with the full livernois rotating assembly with the MMR billet oil pump and call it a day and turn up the boost. heck just those two things the ford rebuild parts should be good for 1000 HP for the block. and I should be able to do all that for under $2500 easily, I'll be happy with that for a couple years.

The weak spot in the factory block is around the water jacket ports at the 6 and 12 o'clock positions. At the 1000 HP level you are at the point where it could become compromised. Be aware....

The Boss head change kit is nice but no one can really tell you what the ultimate HP limit of those parts are...it's really about how safe your calibration is. Set it on kill and a split-second of detonation is going cause a lot of problems. You'll want to run some good fuel for sure.

 

[mr. anderson]

yeah, I hear ya, don't know if it's worth dropping to 10:1 compression and raising up the boost levels on a 93 octane tune. I guess in the end it's all the same for cylinder pressure just how you get there. I will be running a meth kit with 30% meth for safety(not tuned for the extra fuel) anyway for just daily driving.

are the boss main bearings different that the coyotes? I know the crank is supposed to be a little better but I would have thought they were the same specs, bearing wise. good to know if they are a little better, as I will be using them anyway with the boss crank.

in the end I'll be happy with around 850 RWHP and I'll call it a day.

 

[DrTriton]

yeah, I hear ya, don't know if it's worth dropping to 10:1 compression and raising up the boost levels on a 93 octane tune. I guess in the end it's all the same for cylinder pressure just how you get there. I will be running a meth kit with 30% meth for safety(not tuned for the extra fuel) anyway for just daily driving.

are the boss main bearings different that the coyotes? I know the crank is supposed to be a little better but I would have thought they were the same specs, bearing wise. good to know if they are a little better, as I will be using them anyway with the boss crank.

in the end I'll be happy with around 850 RWHP and I'll call it a day.

I would lower the C/R personally.

Boss rod and main bearings are all tri-metal. Base Coyote bearings are aluminum.

The only difference between the two cranks is the balance. They both start out as the same forging.

 

[mr. anderson]

yeah, I understand the less compression ratio especially on a daily driver/race car, it is just less pressure on the engine and easier to tune for. heck what would it take to overcome the loss of power on the 10:1 to 11:1 compression ratio? a extra pound of boost?

I did notice the pulley on the alternator on the CJ engine. wow, I guess you really aren't worried about charging systems on that car though.

 

[stang8psi]

keep the same compression.
and the clevites were recomended by only the best coyote builders in the industry!!! (MMR,Livernois,RGR,L&M) I will take their word sir!

 

[mr. anderson]

since your going with a NA build, 11.5:1 sounds reasonable. I did the calculations with 12PSI and 11:1 compression, if I did my calculations right, that is equivelent to 19.5:1 compression ratio when at full boost.

 

[stang8psi]

less boost more power.. or more boost more heat and make the same power! lowering the compression is the thing of the past..the 4.6l days.

 

[mr. anderson]

yes I agree to a point, when the engine blocks are known to pop at higher horsepower around the water jackets, the higher compression can't be helping any.

 

[stang8psi]

the compression doesn't make the block weaker!

 

[mr. anderson]

no but it it'll find it's weak point when your hitting 18+ pounds of boost! Hell at 18 psi that's equivent to a static compression ratio of 24.46:1! that's a lot of added pressure to a blocks cylinder walls