First Track Day

[SoundGuyDave]

One thing I noticed in watching the 4th session video (yesterday) was that on the laps right after the fastest lap (2:07), you were wide of the T9 and T12 apexes by more than I remember happening before that time. Thoughts? Dave?


Norm

Just so we have all our conventions together, I'm assuming that the outlap wasn't counted, and that "LAP 1" was the first hot-lap.

7:00 (the BMW pass) starts the lap. I won't comment on the NASCAR sections of the track, because I haven't driven them, so I have no idea exactly how much banking there was, relative grip level and condition of the asphalt, etc. Based on lack of tire noise, though, I would submit that you could probably push on there a little more. OTOH, price of failure is awfully high... Thus, no comment.

7:32 T1/T2 Nice apex on both, and although you left a foot or two at exit, the line through looked good and smooth. Try a little more "foot" once you hit apex at T2 to see if it'll push you out to or onto the exit berm.
7:52 T4: Perfect apex!! You got right up on that berm, which is what you need to do. That also led to a perfect track-out.
8:37 T9/T10: A little wide at the T9 apex, try turning in a tick earlier, and with a little less steering input to try to straighten out those chicanes. Nice apex on T10, though!
8:47 T12: Did I just hear tire noise?!?!?! Well done!
8:53-8:58: Nice, smooth arc all the way through, but pay attention to the exhaust tone: You stayed on-throttle (weight transfer to the rear) all the way through, and the car was completely composed through the two corners and across the junction onto the banked oval. That was well done.
9:07 starts the second hot-lap. I liked how you used more RPM range through the NASCAR section. Now, this lap you lost nearly three seconds to the one we just talked about, so let's see if we can figure out why...

NASCAR section, S/F line to braking point. 27 seconds on both laps, so nothing there.

9:40 Way wide at apex at T1. You were easily 3-4' wider on this lap, which also hurt you at T2 apex because your rhythm was off. It looks to me like you kind of dived for the T2 corner, and paid the price at exit. Yes, you were closer to the exit berm (good) but came up on it short, and still with a lot of steering input dialled in, which delayed your throttle application (bad).
10:00 T3 apex still looks good. Nice job!
10:23 T7 Wayyyy wide at apex.
10:45 T9/T10 Also Wayyyy wide at apex, turned in wayyy too late. Serious question: did you get lost there? That T9/T10 and T4/T5 apex pairing could easily get confused, particularly later in the day (this was) when you start getting tired. It looks to me like you just plumb forgot to turn-in for this one, or missed your braking point and were carrying too much speed for your comfort.
T12-NASCAR. Here, you just sounded hesitant. Yes, you kept picking up the throttle, but less than the previous lap, and once you were on the banking, you jumped on it nice and hard. S/F again at 11:17.

My guess: A) Something from the previous lap rattled you, B) You were just getting tired and lost focus, C) You were thinking about T7 when you hit T9, and that got you completely off rhythm for the rest of the lap.

Based on the following lap times, my guess is driver fatigue. People might say "how hard can it be," but those of us that have done this KNOW that it can be mentally draining. It gets easier with more seat time, when a lot of the dynamics skills become automatic, and you can start thinking again, without using up brainpower on the mechanics of heel/toe shifting, or trying to remember to keep your wheel inputs smooth.

Overall, though, VERY nice job over the course of the day. It's quite a difference from a 50-second blast past the cones, and repetitive low-two-minute laps for a solid half-hour, isn't it!

The importance of hitting apex:



A little over 3.5 miles, in a little over 2:47. Things to take away: Look how I use the ENTIRE track (Turn S4 at exit left a little dirt cloud!). Look how close to apex I am consistently. Notice the lack of time spent coasting, and how I'm approaching braking zones. I could probably have pulled another 0.7 to 1.0 seconds out of the lap if I really pushed it, but this is a snip from an endurance race, so managing the junk is important. For comparison: Continental CTSCC tires (think "tired" R6), 313RWHP, 3350-3400lbs.

I think you have the basic mechanics pretty much down. Now, it's time to really focus on consistency. Nail the same braking point, every turn, every lap. Nail the same turn-in point, every turn, every lap. Hit the same apex point, every turn, every lap. Once you get to the point where "the line" becomes natural and automatic, start focusing on bringing up your entry speeds, and being more aggressive with the throttle in the exit phases of the corners. Also, use tire noise to your advantage. Tire noise implies slip angle, which is good! Work on getting that thin squeel going all the way from turn-in through corner exit! You don't want them howling like banshees, but that thin squeel is a solid clue that you're approaching grip limit. If you keep 'em talking for as much of the corner as you possibly can, you know, positively, you're getting around at a hustle!

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Oh, and about data acquisition devices and apps... An inaccurate device is probably worse than no device at all, if you're actually studying data. Also, I have no idea what the resolution is on smart-phone accelerometers, but I'd be willing to bet that there is a fairly large margin of error.

When talking data acquisition, you want more than just raw lap time, peak G, and top speed. When I study my previous sessions looking for time, I break the track down into at least five "segments," and usually create a new segment at each braking zone. Then I pull up three graphs: Velocity vs. Distance, Lat-G vs. Distance, and Lon-G vs. Distance. By graphing against distance, rather than time, all four of my cardinal points (braking, turn-in, apex, track-out) all line up. I can see how consistent I've been, and by looking at the outlying data points, I can see exactly how much of what I've been leaving on the table. If I compare 10 laps, and 9 of them show 1.2 lat-G through a particular corner from turn-in to apex, but I have one that pops up to 1.4 lat-G, I can tell that I left too much error margin. From the slope of the line, I can tell if I was coasting between accel and braking, and exactly where I initiated turn-in.

Probably the best feature of "real" data acquisition gear is the "Theroetical Best Lap" or TBL. That is an automated analysis function that polls the best time through each segment, and constructs a "dream" lap based on that data. Comparing your actual best lap to the TBL can point out where your shortcomings lie, and give you something solid to work on.

If you're really dead-serious about improving as a driver, the $1000 you spend on a SmartyCam or Traqmate with a GoPro will pay HUGE dividends. I'm not saying that the smart-phone apps are useless, or junk, or anything like that; by all means use them to get rough data, and then analyze what worked and didn't work with that and a video camera. The "pro" data stuff just gives better resolution and automates a lot of the drudgery.

 

[NoTicket]

Dave,

Do you have experience with the bluetooth GPS paired data aquisition?

The bluetooth devices poll at 10hz (at least if you get the right one) and are accurate to within 7 feet (this is a limitation of civilian satellites). The GPS devices are REAL GPS/GLONASS instead of aGPS in phones. You can also hook up a bluetooth OBD II reader to these apps which will give you output on throttle, brake, and sometimes steering input.

In some of the apps the g-forces are just calculated by using gps data to derive velocity and acceleration and then using data about the vehicle weight and dimensions.

You can then user RaceRender or equivalent software that will accept this data and render an overlay similar to the SmartyCam or Traqmate.

Right now I am using just the data from my phone as I have not invested in any action cameras at this point.

I'm curious what the SmartyCam or a Traqmate provides that is not available to these applications and bluetooth devices as it may change my buying plans for the near future.

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Dave,

Do you have experience with the bluetooth GPS paired data aquisition?

The bluetooth devices poll at 10hz (at least if you get the right one) and are accurate to within 7 feet (this is a limitation of civilian satellites). The GPS devices are REAL GPS/GLONASS instead of aGPS in phones. You can also hook up a bluetooth OBD II reader to these apps which will give you output on throttle, brake, and sometimes steering input.

Honestly, I have not. I've been using Traqmate for longer than I owned a Smartphone, so....

In some of the apps the g-forces are just calculated by using gps data to derive velocity and acceleration and then using data about the vehicle weight and dimensions.

You can then user RaceRender or equivalent software that will accept this data and render an overlay similar to the SmartyCam or Traqmate.

Right now I am using just the data from my phone as I have not invested in any action cameras at this point.

I'm curious what the SmartyCam or a Traqmate provides that is not available to these applications and bluetooth devices as it may change my buying plans for the near future.

My biggest concern, honestly, is the whole GIGO paradigm. From what I can see, to generate useful data, you need accurate measurement, and I'm just not convinced that a Smartphone-based lash-up is really the way to go. At a minimum, you need an accurate clock source, positional data, and acceleration measurement.

The clock is easy, and either setup will do that well.
Positional data, as you mentioned, needs to be solid, and the in-built stuff in a Smartphone just isn't good enough. Will an external GPS source be sufficient? I'm pretty sure, yes.
Acceleration measurement for me is the sticky point. I'm pretty sure the run-of-the-mill Smartphone doesn't have the resolution or sample rate required to accurately plot what we're doing. Could you infer it? Sure, but the error factor compared to a direct measurement is pretty huge.

The OBD scan function is available with any of the rigs we've talked about, so that's no "exclusive" benefit either way.

If you don't have video capability currently, I STRONGLY urge you to consider the investment! It's extremely valuable to be able to go back over your laps and compare the raw data with the video to codify a change in line, or technique. If you have no video, and you have no data, take a look at a SmartyCam. The HD model is around $1200, including the ECU bridge so that you can import and log any OBD parameters you might want, and then do an on-screen display if you wish. Also, the data and video is sync'd at that point, something that isn't all that easy to do with independent systems. You can do a Traqmate Complete system with a GoPro 2 for a little less, but you still need to hand-sync them to a minor degree.

I guess that if you have equivalent data quality and don't mind spending the time getting all the pieces to work together you could probably save a few bucks doing a phone lash-up, but if you're going to become a heavy data user, the time you spend trying to get all the pieces to line up and be useful may not pay off in the long run.

Again, not putting down the phone-based systems, but there's a reason that you don't see iPhones suction-cupped to the windows in pro level races.

 

[NoTicket]

That's some good info.

I don't want to totally hijack this thread so I will go do research on the SmartyCam as that is the solution I think I would be most interested in since I don't have any action cams. Though I am a bit hesitant to drop $1000 on a solution that I will not be able to upgrade.

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Not sure exactly what you mean by "not able to upgrade..." The video portion is 720P, which is plenty for track vids, and the data bus can accept ANY of the AIM sensors via the AIM CAN-BUS, so you can add in wideband 02 (all 8 cylinders individually, if you want) suspension travel pots, IR temp sensors (fab up a bracket and do inside, middle and outside tire temps in real time, to get a bit crazy), all the fluid temps and pressures you could ever want, AND tap into the ECM to get whatever PIDs your heart desires. I *THINK* the limit is 256 individual sensors. That ought to be enough to fully instrument the car.

DISCLOSURE: I do not own one, but if I were starting from scratch... in a heartbeat! Also, I do NOT consider myself an expert by any stretch in data acquisition hardware, software or tech, just a dilettante end-user.

 

[Mike Rousch]

This thread and many others on here is very helpful, I am a brand new to the road course and would love some pointers from you guys. Should i make a new thread or just post questions in here? Thanks!

 

[c_reber]

Here's my video. Not even sure what session this was, I get a little lazy with the gopro.

http://youtu.be/DbHdFmO5m8M

 

[NoTicket]

This thread and many others on here is very helpful, I am a brand new to the road course and would love some pointers from you guys. Should i make a new thread or just post questions in here? Thanks!

There are several stickies at the top for you to read.

 

[claudermilk]

NoTicket: I've been using RaceChrono also. It pretty much fills the same space as Trackmaster. Still have both installed; right now I'm kind of liking Trackmaster more. Once I get a new scanner, I'll be using Torque Pro to log data from the ECU. I'm interested in Harry's Lap Timer--it seems popular for the iOS platform, have to look for that now.

Dave: Thanks for the info. I think I have most of that in theory, but reinforcement never hurts. I do plan on reviewing the video more to try and mentally dial in better.

The advice on passing strategy is very much appreciated. This is probably where I'm weakest. I'll review this info a few times to get it to sink in. With the novice group, passing was on the straights only, and with point-bys only.

I am pretty confident I will get more aggressive with the pedals as my comfort level increases. I knew I was leaving speed on the table, but preferred to walk my way up to the limits. I know speed will come.

As to trusting the car, I am gaining that quickly. It was actually quite stable & I was able to push it enough a couple of times to feel the rear end begin to near the limit on braking and on the trottle coming out of the corner. I just need to more consistently get there.

Norm: Yeah, I blew the apex on a couple of laps. I knew it at the time and was irritated with myself. I also had that silver Lexus keeping pace, and went a little deep to see if I could stretch the distance a bit. He was consistently outbraking me, but I'd leave him from mid corner until the next braking point.

On the videos the out lap did not count. The app does not start timing until I pass the first marker at start/finish.

I really appreciate the detailed analysis. It's getting a little late, so I'll have to pull up my video vs your comments later, but I will & comment back.

For the telemetry, this time around was as much of a test session as anything else. I knew going in it wasn't going to be terribly accurate & was just going to be a rough guide. I simply wanted to be able to see what the app output. Plans are to get one of the 10mhz GLONASS units to feed the data. That should be good enough for a while.

Anyway, time for bed, then I can get back to analyzing the info you guys dropped on me vs my videos.

 

[claudermilk]

Just so we have all our conventions together, I'm assuming that the outlap wasn't counted, and that "LAP 1" was the first hot-lap.

Yes.

7:00 (the BMW pass) starts the lap. I won't comment on the NASCAR sections of the track, because I haven't driven them, so I have no idea exactly how much banking there was, relative grip level and condition of the asphalt, etc. Based on lack of tire noise, though, I would submit that you could probably push on there a little more. OTOH, price of failure is awfully high... Thus, no comment.

The first lift was just looking for a point-by. After the pass we were getting into Nascar turn 1. I know I am not on it as hard as I could, purely a driver confidence issue. I'll get quicker as time goes on.

7:32 T1/T2 Nice apex on both, and although you left a foot or two at exit, the line through looked good and smooth. Try a little more "foot" once you hit apex at T2 to see if it'll push you out to or onto the exit berm.

That is Turns 3 & 4. The instructor pointed me to the right entry line and I think that is one of the places I have down better. I see I can let it track out more, which should allow for more throttle. Again, I think a confidence issue (that is my story for the day & I'm sticking to it. ).

7:52 T4: Perfect apex!! You got right up on that berm, which is what you need to do. That also led to a perfect track-out.

Turns 5 & 6. Thanks. I am unsure of the correct line for the first part of that double apex. Go wide on the first & allow a later apex on the second, or bring it in tighter, which may throw me out to the apron coming on to the straight. I am trying to clip as near the second apex cone as I can since the curbing is nice & flat. I should also probably use more of the apron on the track out part. That one feels close to right.

8:37 T9/T10: A little wide at the T9 apex, try turning in a tick earlier, and with a little less steering input to try to straighten out those chicanes. Nice apex on T10, though!

The previous section (turn 7/8 chicane) I know I should be faster & clipping the apex closer. On the lap in question I think I did ok going in then was a little wide coming out. Again, lack of confidence is holding me back there. The car is moving around a lot on its supension during the transition. The hairpin (turn 9) is another place the instructor helped point me around. There was a cone on the outside at the turn-in earlier & I am trying to stick with that place, but have not identified a good permanent landmark yet. I get why he has such a late turn-in--it gives a later apex & stretches the straight. On this lap I think I left half a car-width to the apex. The following chicane is geting there. I do need to give less steering input, but I am WOT through there now.

8:47 T12: Did I just hear tire noise?!?!?! Well done!

Yep. Aww shucks... I think I blew an apex earlier on, so still work to do. However, my line was better than the other newbies I followed around through there. That big bump at 8:47 still kind of wigs me out, but that is right where the proper line is as far as I can tell. I think I just need to trust the car can absorb it, though that wall out there is a harsh consequence for being wrong.

8:53-8:58: Nice, smooth arc all the way through, but pay attention to the exhaust tone: You stayed on-throttle (weight transfer to the rear) all the way through, and the car was completely composed through the two corners and across the junction onto the banked oval. That was well done.

Again, thanks. I am working on getting on throttle earlier through there--that was a consistent comment from the instructor. I also have to get comfortable with the transition to the banking; the car can probably handle it better than I'm giving it credit for, but it is a big bump.

9:07 starts the second hot-lap. I liked how you used more RPM range through the NASCAR section. Now, this lap you lost nearly three seconds to the one we just talked about, so let's see if we can figure out why...

NASCAR section, S/F line to braking point. 27 seconds on both laps, so nothing there.

There's still more in it, too. A quick glance showed about 6k, so the car has more to give.

9:40 Way wide at apex at T1. You were easily 3-4' wider on this lap, which also hurt you at T2 apex because your rhythm was off. It looks to me like you kind of dived for the T2 corner, and paid the price at exit. Yes, you were closer to the exit berm (good) but came up on it short, and still with a lot of steering input dialled in, which delayed your throttle application (bad).

Yup. Flat blew turn entry there. I was not happy with that turn right away. I think the Lexus was close behind, so I reacted to that somewhat when I shouldn't have.

10:00 T3 apex still looks good. Nice job!

Thanks. I think that is one of my favorite turns since I seem to have at least the second part figured out.

10:23 T7 Wayyyy wide at apex.

Yep, again knew I blew it at the time, and the same mistake as 9:40. Noob error. :/

10:45 T9/T10 Also Wayyyy wide at apex, turned in wayyy too late. Serious question: did you get lost there? That T9/T10 and T4/T5 apex pairing could easily get confused, particularly later in the day (this was) when you start getting tired. It looks to me like you just plumb forgot to turn-in for this one, or missed your braking point and were carrying too much speed for your comfort.

Third strike. I think that was my worst turn of the day. Again, feeling a bit of pressure & waited too long/not enough brake pressure. I knew what I did and after the first turn-in it was damage control time.

T12-NASCAR. Here, you just sounded hesitant. Yes, you kept picking up the throttle, but less than the previous lap, and once you were on the banking, you jumped on it nice and hard. S/F again at 11:17.

My guess: A) Something from the previous lap rattled you, B) You were just getting tired and lost focus, C) You were thinking about T7 when you hit T9, and that got you completely off rhythm for the rest of the lap.

I think it was mainly C with a little of B. I was happy with the previous lap, thus by then annoyed at the current lap.

Based on the following lap times, my guess is driver fatigue. People might say "how hard can it be," but those of us that have done this KNOW that it can be mentally draining. It gets easier with more seat time, when a lot of the dynamics skills become automatic, and you can start thinking again, without using up brainpower on the mechanics of heel/toe shifting, or trying to remember to keep your wheel inputs smooth.

Overall, though, VERY nice job over the course of the day. It's quite a difference from a 50-second blast past the cones, and repetitive low-two-minute laps for a solid half-hour, isn't it!

That is part of it. I was starting to look for the checkers in the last 2-3 laps. Internal monologue: "CHeckers yet? Boy it's been a while. Must be time to go in...WTF am I thinking? I want to stop?!" What really surprised me was after getting home was the sore shoulders and hands. I was working harder than I realized. It is very different from the short lap of a parking lot.

The importance of hitting apex:



A little over 3.5 miles, in a little over 2:47. Things to take away: Look how I use the ENTIRE track (Turn S4 at exit left a little dirt cloud!). Look how close to apex I am consistently. Notice the lack of time spent coasting, and how I'm approaching braking zones. I could probably have pulled another 0.7 to 1.0 seconds out of the lap if I really pushed it, but this is a snip from an endurance race, so managing the junk is important. For comparison: Continental CTSCC tires (think "tired" R6), 313RWHP, 3350-3400lbs.

I think you have the basic mechanics pretty much down. Now, it's time to really focus on consistency. Nail the same braking point, every turn, every lap. Nail the same turn-in point, every turn, every lap. Hit the same apex point, every turn, every lap. Once you get to the point where "the line" becomes natural and automatic, start focusing on bringing up your entry speeds, and being more aggressive with the throttle in the exit phases of the corners. Also, use tire noise to your advantage. Tire noise implies slip angle, which is good! Work on getting that thin squeel going all the way from turn-in through corner exit! You don't want them howling like banshees, but that thin squeel is a solid clue that you're approaching grip limit. If you keep 'em talking for as much of the corner as you possibly can, you know, positively, you're getting around at a hustle!

Thanks for the example. Yes, far better & more consistent apexes than mine. I think this is one of the big points I need to work on: consistency & hitting the apexes. I am pretty sure I have the theory of all that (hit the turn-in, apexes, track-out, throttle on at the apex, less coasting, getting the tire to talk); it's the seat time turining that into practice that I need. The analysis you provided helps a whole lot, too--I really appreciate it. It helps put what I am seeing I did vs what I got right & not into context.

I am seeing there is a NASA HPDE in a week. I'll try to get out to that to reinforce all this. I am not a member yet, so am not sure if I can join at the time or not. That will call for an email to them.

 

[Roadracer350]

Dave, why was the seat moving?

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Yes.

The first lift was just looking for a point-by. After the pass we were getting into Nascar turn 1. I know I am not on it as hard as I could, purely a driver confidence issue. I'll get quicker as time goes on.

I will NEVER say that someone "needs" to be quicker in an area that has that high a potential price for failure. Way too many variables to try to advise from a remote location. Do I honestly think you could push that section a little harder? Yes, I do, but I also think that will have to come from seat time.

That is Turns 3 & 4. The instructor pointed me to the right entry line and I think that is one of the places I have down better. I see I can let it track out more, which should allow for more throttle. Again, I think a confidence issue (that is my story for the day & I'm sticking to it. ).

LOL!! Seat time=confidence. I doubt I would do well AT ALL if I signed up for my first autocross, so... don't sweat it, it'll all come together with more time in that type of environment. Also, the track-out point should be something that happens as a result of your choices of turn-in, apex and throttle-on; a measure of the success-fulness of the preceeding points, and never something that you drive out to. If you track out well, it's because you nailed the turn. You're right, though, a bit more "foot" would put you out there!

Turns 5 & 6. Thanks. I am unsure of the correct line for the first part of that double apex. Go wide on the first & allow a later apex on the second, or bring it in tighter, which may throw me out to the apron coming on to the straight. I am trying to clip as near the second apex cone as I can since the curbing is nice & flat. I should also probably use more of the apron on the track out part. That one feels close to right.

All I can say there is to experiment, and see which one "feels" best. THEN back it up with data acquisition to track which is actually quickest! With a 180* turn like that, there are really two (or more!) valid lines that can be taken. Wide entry, curling into the second apex point, like you ran, preserves a little more entry speed, but you have to dump some to make the "turn-in" to apex before you can put the power down. The traditional double-apex line requires a little more braking up front, and sacrifices a bit of entry speed in favor of letting the car take a set, allowing you to start rolling into the throttle a bit earlier, getting the car balanced. Since the arc 50-100' before apex is actually wider than the wide-entry line, you can get on throttle a little sooner. In the end, though, both are valid, and potentially usable. It's up to the data and the butt-dyno to tell you which gets you through most consistently and quickly. On the example vid I posted, the first turn I take is actually a triple-apex left-hander, short straight, then a double-apex right-hander. I run the tight line for both, and you can see on the left-hander how soon I'm able to get to WOT. The right-hander is "weird," with delayed throttle-on, due to the need to exit track-right... Don't be afraid to experiment with your line! Some stuff you try will tell you right away "Well, I'm not doing THAT again!" but other stuff might give you an "aha" moment. Worst case, you'll get a quick idea of what it's like to run off-line, and that's not necessarily a bad thing to experience.

The previous section (turn 7/8 chicane) I know I should be faster & clipping the apex closer. On the lap in question I think I did ok going in then was a little wide coming out. Again, lack of confidence is holding me back there. The car is moving around a lot on its supension during the transition. The hairpin (turn 9) is another place the instructor helped point me around. There was a cone on the outside at the turn-in earlier & I am trying to stick with that place, but have not identified a good permanent landmark yet. I get why he has such a late turn-in--it gives a later apex & stretches the straight. On this lap I think I left half a car-width to the apex. The following chicane is geting there. I do need to give less steering input, but I am WOT through there now.

Excellent! You're certainly grasping the essentials, and starting the whole "self-correction" thing. And you're absolutely correct: straight=fast, and the more steering angle you have dialed in, the more scrub you have, with resultant lower speeds. Think about the way weight is transferring: In a corner, it's to the outside pair of wheels, so don't be afraid to experiment with the curbs a bit. There's relatively little load on the inside tires, and thus relatively little grip. Go easy, but try playing with them a bit. Also, you noted all the rubber built up on them? That means a LOT of race cars (with sticky slicks) are hitting them. The ones to avoid are the ones with very little rubber on them...

Yep. Aww shucks... I think I blew an apex earlier on, so still work to do. However, my line was better than the other newbies I followed around through there. That big bump at 8:47 still kind of wigs me out, but that is right where the proper line is as far as I can tell. I think I just need to trust the car can absorb it, though that wall out there is a harsh consequence for being wrong.

Again, thanks. I am working on getting on throttle earlier through there--that was a consistent comment from the instructor. I also have to get comfortable with the transition to the banking; the car can probably handle it better than I'm giving it credit for, but it is a big bump.

The way they have the course laid out, with the cones defining the arc, that makes a pretty nice wide-radius sweeper, one of my favorite types of corners. Get the car turned in, get the suspension set, then feed in as much throttle as the track will take. Get those tires talking (constant radius means constant load, so you can sneak up on the speed needed to make them SING!), and just get the car a little straighter for the bump up onto the track so that you have some grip budget in reserve for the "upset." I LOVE a good sweeper!

There's still more in it, too. A quick glance showed about 6k, so the car has more to give.

Can you run the revs more? Sure. You need to balance risk vs. reward, though.

Yup. Flat blew turn entry there. I was not happy with that turn right away. I think the Lexus was close behind, so I reacted to that somewhat when I shouldn't have.

This is purely an experiential thing... Yes, there is a car back there, but the rules say he can't pass, so you need to ignore him. Hard to do until you get really used to the etiquette and environment, though. No worries, but it very simply explains why the corner was blown.

Thanks. I think that is one of my favorite turns since I seem to have at least the second part figured out.

Again, I'm not necessarily convinced that you're blowing the first half. There are more than one or two lines through that type of corner, so experimentation is the key.

Yep, again knew I blew it at the time, and the same mistake as 9:40. Noob error. :/


Third strike. I think that was my worst turn of the day. Again, feeling a bit of pressure & waited too long/not enough brake pressure. I knew what I did and after the first turn-in it was damage control time.

Again, no sweat, it's in the past, shake it off, etc. This is one of the prime reasons why point-by passing is a great idea for novice groups, though! In theory, it takes ALL of the pressure off the "slower" car, since in reality, they control the pass (when it happens and what side it happens). It's actually tough, though, to simply ignore a mirror full of machinery, particularly if it's a bit closer than you're used to at what is VERY fast highway speeds. Seat time brings comfort in the environment, and that makes this type of situation a non-issue. On HPDE days, I've pretty much learned to ignore my mirrors completely until right before passing zones. Helps to focus the mind on what really matters, which is executing the corners properly.

I think it was mainly C with a little of B. I was happy with the previous lap, thus by then annoyed at the current lap.

That is part of it. I was starting to look for the checkers in the last 2-3 laps. Internal monologue: "CHeckers yet? Boy it's been a while. Must be time to go in...WTF am I thinking? I want to stop?!" What really surprised me was after getting home was the sore shoulders and hands. I was working harder than I realized. It is very different from the short lap of a parking lot.

I kind of figured. This (thinking about what happened behind you plus a tick of fatigue and lost focus) is not atypical by any stretch of the matter. Going forward, though, you need to start dividing your thought processes into three categories: 1) Automatic: hitting your marks, mechanics of trail-braking or heel/toe, etc. 2) Upcoming: scan for traffic, gauges, look to your next corner and note your marks, and then 3) The past: This should ONLY come into play on the NEXT LAP, as you approach the corner you had issues with. Otherwise, it happened, it's done, get over it. Hard to do? Yes. But, once you can put your body on autopilot, and free your mind to process what's coming up but still learn from a mistake you made previously, THEN you will be a THINKING and AWARE driver. Those are the fast ones!

Thanks for the example. Yes, far better & more consistent apexes than mine. I think this is one of the big points I need to work on: consistency & hitting the apexes. I am pretty sure I have the theory of all that (hit the turn-in, apexes, track-out, throttle on at the apex, less coasting, getting the tire to talk); it's the seat time turining that into practice that I need. The analysis you provided helps a whole lot, too--I really appreciate it. It helps put what I am seeing I did vs what I got right & not into context.

I am seeing there is a NASA HPDE in a week. I'll try to get out to that to reinforce all this. I am not a member yet, so am not sure if I can join at the time or not. That will call for an email to them.

Awesome, glad I could help! Sign up for the NASA event as soon as you can! There's no real formality to "joining," it's all online, and can be done in a matter of minutes, at the same time you sign up for your first event. I guess I have to say: "Welcome to your new addiction!"

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Dave, why was the seat moving?

Bad seat-mount design. It's essentially flat straps of bar steel, with no angle gusset, so it tends to rock a bit in torsion. Philostang and I are ditching it in favor of a welded-in floor-level mount in the off-season.

 

[Roadracer350]

Ah! I just figured somthing may have come loose. Can you not modify it that way you don't have to replace it?

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Ah! I just figured somthing may have come loose. Can you not modify it that way you don't have to replace it?

I probably could, but to be honest, it's as low as it physically can be, but I still want to drop the seat mount a bit more. I'm planning on 3/4" down and 1/2" inboard from where it sits now, and that's just not possible with any form of bolt-on mount base. Planning on sectioning in some steel "U" channel to the stock seat base crossmembers, and then hard-mounting directly to that. Due to the nature of the build (multiple driver endurance racing) I want to retain the slider function Sparco double-locking), and also have the rails at an incline as I do now, so that the further back the seat is, the lower it sits. One prospective team driver (6'10"!!!) tried it on as-is, and fit with the seat all the way back, but his helmet was uncomfortably close (IMO) to the roll cage structure, thus the desire for just a bit more clearance.

In short, yes, I could gusset the mount, but since this is very much a dedicated race car, I might as well eliminate the mount base altogether and gain a little clearance while I'm at it. No worries here about being able to return the car to stock!

 

[claudermilk]

Thanks for all the detailed input, Dave. If nothing else, it shows that I am thinking along the correct lines and heading in the right direction. Now to get more seat time & turn all that theory I've been packing in my head to practice.