JDM 302E Engine Owners - Check In!!

[BruceH]

I don't have a link to the SW comment. It was in an oil thread on a forum.

I trust that Ford has the test labs, equipment, and engineers to determine what is needed for the proper flow and psi of oil to get where it needs to go. I'd even believe that the oil galleys are sized with this in mind. Oil even has to make it to the cam journals to provide a wedge because there aren't any bearings. I don't have the tools available to me that Ford does so I go with what they recommend. I have kept my builds within Ford specs wherever possible just for this reason.

Cats are another place where I go with what works for the manufacturer. Terminators, GT500s, Subaru, VW, Mercedes, Dodge, etc. all offer boosted cars with cats and they provide a 7 year emissions warranty on those cats. I keep the emissions logic turned on in my tune so the cats and exhaust valves are protected from excess heat. I think that most tuners turn it off to make tuning easier. With it off the cats and valves can get as hot as is possible and there won't be any relief. The factory tune adds fuel at 1650 degrees to cool the cats unless it's wot. I set mine up the same way. So far I have over 35k miles boosted with factory cats and no issues.

 

[Speed+Clinic]

I have the link for the oil recommendation from SW bookmarked. I thought you had other info from other Ford Engineers that go against what SW says. There is a lot more that goes into the oil recommendation than just engine life. The main one is CAFE standards. Ford only warranties their engines to 60k miles so that would be their goal maybe 100k pushing it.

What state do you live in? Don't run a 2 step with the cats, it will destroy them. I just can't get any boost of the line without the 2-step.

 

[BruceH]

I have the link for the oil recommendation from SW bookmarked. I thought you had other info from other Ford Engineers that go against what SW says. There is a lot more that goes into the oil recommendation than just engine life. The main one is CAFE standards. Ford only warranties their engines to 60k miles so that would be their goal maybe 100k pushing it.

What state do you live in? Don't run a 2 step with the cats, it will destroy them. I just can't get any boost of the line without the 2-step.

We have discussed café before. It makes no sense. Less friction will result in better mpg. Less friction will also result in longer engine life. I can't believe that café standards are causing more engine wear.

Everything I own gets manufactures spec. Ford Focus gets 5w-20, Honda Accord gets 5w-20, GMC truck gets 5w-30, Mustang built with my specified clearances copied from Ford gets 5w-20.

It is my belief that the whole café thing was started by oil companies who didn't have the technology to make or the opportunity to purchase 5w-20 base and put their label on it. This enabled them to sell 5w-30 to customers who needed 5w-20. To some this is just salesmanship but to me it's misrepresentation.

I'm not going through this again. It's your engine, run what you want. Just know that the chance of spinning a bearing or ruining the top end due to improper lubrication increases when the wrong viscosity is run for the bearing clearances and oil pump combination.

 

[zipperhead]

Did it ever consume oil? Who and how was it broken in?

Local customers get much better support/product; especially if you deal directly with Sr. But he is impossible to get a hold of.

When I first brought it home it burned maybe 1/2 qt the first 2k miles. After that maybe a 1/4 qt every 3K miles.
Fyi I run 13 psi boost


Break in
If I recall I never ran it over 4K rpms the first 2k miles. Then immediately to track. Of course Jim Sr had it on the dyno at birth .. lol

We first set it up at 15 psi but it was way to fast at the track. I reduced it to 12.5 psi to keep it around 11.5 in the quarter

 

[RocketcarX]

When I first brought it home it burned maybe 1/2 qt the first 2k miles. After that maybe a 1/4 qt every 3K miles.
Fyi I run 13 psi boost


Break in
If I recall I never ran it over 4K rpms the first 2k miles. Then immediately to track. Of course Jim Sr had it on the dyno at birth .. lol

We first set it up at 15 psi but it was way to fast at the track. I reduced it to 12.5 psi to keep it around 11.5 in the quarter

I don't even know what this means

 

[Speed+Clinic]

We have discussed café before. It makes no sense. Less friction will result in better mpg. Less friction will also result in longer engine life. I can't believe that café standards are causing more engine wear.

Everything I own gets manufactures spec. Ford Focus gets 5w-20, Honda Accord gets 5w-20, GMC truck gets 5w-30, Mustang built with my specified clearances copied from Ford gets 5w-20.

It is my belief that the whole café thing was started by oil companies who didn't have the technology to make or the opportunity to purchase 5w-20 base and put their label on it. This enabled them to sell 5w-30 to customers who needed 5w-20. To some this is just salesmanship but to me it's misrepresentation.

I'm not going through this again. It's your engine, run what you want. Just know that the chance of spinning a bearing or ruining the top end due to improper lubrication increases when the wrong viscosity is run for the bearing clearances and oil pump combination.

Less friction at low loads = increased mpg and efficiency. Now is it possible that at higher loads that less friction will result in no film strength and wear?

Saleen and roush recommend 5w-30 on their engines. Even for the non s/c stock engine versions. They are not governed by CAFE standards.

amsoil sells 5w-20 yet... http://www.smartsynthetics.com/articles/5w20oil.htm

Here is the thread:

http://www.corner-carvers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36607

"I'm not going into details here, but I know I've talked to several people on this list before about this. Please do not put 5w-20 or less into a mod motor. Please.

That is all...."

"Quote:
Originally Posted by gmorrell View Post
Unless you have some oil pressure and temperature data, this starts to become a "Yo dawgs, what's the bestest oil for my Cobra?" thread. No offense intended, but without data, that's where we might be headed.
Gary-
I'm assuming you're not referring to my comments, or don't know my background? Are you aware that I spent about 10 years doing engine development with Ford Motor Company, including being the systems engineer on the 2003 Aviator and 2005 Mustang V8s?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chim-Chim View Post
Would you recommend 5W-30, then? I have been running the Motorcraft 5W-20 synthetic blend.
5W-30 is probably a good oil for the street with mixed temperatures, yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GT4Point6 View Post
?? Not sure what your saying. Are you saying to not run 5w-20 in the mod motors? I wouldn't run it any thinner but 5W20 is the spec oil from most Ford engines since 2001. If there is somehting wrong with it, I'm sure we would see a lot of people with motor problems. Mustangs, CVs, F150, F250-550 and what ever else the put the mod motors in and I'm just not seeing that on the Mustang and Truck forums.
I think you'll understand that I can go into details here. And understand that I'm not saying that 5W-20 is not going to instantly do damage. But suffice it to say I've seen and been involved in a LOT of development on these motors, and my personal opinion is that I would never run 5W-20 in a modular motor. Regarding your "spec oil" comment, you need to look at what else governs this recommendation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bassen View Post
Scott, does your 5W30 recommendation carry over to 5.4L 3V motors?
Yes. I would not run 5W-20 in ANY stock mod motor. This is especially true in 4v motors, but applies to all of them in one form or another.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Houstonnw View Post
I'm guessing that you meant to write "I cannot go into details here".
You are correct. Sorry for the typo. Sometimes I think faster than I type.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Houstonnw View Post
Steve Bassen asked about the 5.4L 3V motors and I'm interested in the 4.6L 3V motors. I understand that the variable valve timing is based on the engine tolerances and I would assume, the oil viscosity.

So if you were taking a 3V Mustang to track days, what oil would you use?
My *PERSONAL RECOMMENDATION* would be to run a good fresh synthetic in the 5w-30 to 10W-40 range. And keep an eye on oil temps and oil pressure variations. The oil viscosity might slightly change the VCT's transient behaviors, but I wouldn't expect significant issues. I admit that I've never tested or seen testing relating to oils thicker than 10W-40, so I can't comment on that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbower View Post
Scott: I would be very interested in why you think 5w-20 is a bit too thin for heavy use.
Because I've seen the dyno testing. I've probably looked at several hundred engines disassembled and spread out on inspection tables. And I've been involved in testing to resolve issues where varying the oil viscosity was part of the test DOE. Trading a very small FE improvement in exchange for a large durability safety margin is not something I'm interested in doing.
__________________
I apologize for not being a little more clear and forthcoming."

Last line of this discussion: "trading a very small FE improvement in exchange for a large durability safety margin is not something I'm interested in doing.

----------

Either way if you decide to keep running 5w-20 because you think or it's your own personal belief that it is actually better for your engine please do run an oil analysis and be sure it is protecting your engine. 5w-20 was hurting my engine, this was what the oil analysis showed. When I switched to 10/30 the absurd wear #'s that were showing in my oil analysis decreased. Do an oil analysis and be safe.

PS: If you have any other info from any other ford engineer I would love to read it and to see at any other point of view on this subject. This is the most direct source on the oil recommendation I have been able to find. All other info I have read is what iff's or suppositions.

 

[Speed+Clinic]

When I first brought it home it burned maybe 1/2 qt the first 2k miles. After that maybe a 1/4 qt every 3K miles.
Fyi I run 13 psi boost


Break in
If I recall I never ran it over 4K rpms the first 2k miles. Then immediately to track. Of course Jim Sr had it on the dyno at birth .. lol

We first set it up at 15 psi but it was way to fast at the track. I reduced it to 12.5 psi to keep it around 11.5 in the quarter

I don't have a team jdm 302 but I do have their pistons and a saleen stroker assembly so its the same stuff persay. 1/4-1/3 first oil change. No oil consumption afterwards. No break in. I do not believe in slow/baby break-in.

I started a thread about break-ins a while ago with some useful data:

http://s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92988

 

[sportinawoody]

If I am not mistaken nascar engines go thru a rebuild after each race.

the engines are on lease now. yates for the fords are $68,000 and the engines are sent back to the builders and replaced with spec'd motors for each individual track as the loads are different from track to track. and yes 68k is a lease price, dunno what the hendricks are getting, probably in the same neighborhood

edit: 68k was the last update i recieved

 

[BruceH]

Virgin sample of RP 5w-20



Same oil after being beat on with a Whippled, newly built 4.6 3v.



That was the end of my oil geek phase. I still trust Ford better than a former engineer.

 

[Pentalab]

I'm aware of it and we have had this discussion too many times. IIRC SW was pretty much the only part of the team with that idea.

I have a lot of faith in what Ford produces. The longevity of modular motors is fantastic. Even with boost the stock motors hold a lot of horsepower. The clearances are tight and they get tighter as the motor warms up. I'm concerned with how well the oil will flow both at startup and when at operating temp to provide a physical barrier between parts, take away heat, and lubricate. Things like sheer and film strength are the last line of defense for a motor oil. As long as it's api certified I'm not too concerned about those numbers. This method of approaching what fluids to use has done well for me. The reduction of zdpp hasn't affected factory motors longevity. High levels will kill catalytic converters and I do run cats on all my vehicles.

Did you know that nascar uses 0w-2? The motors run hot and clearances tighten up significantly.

The story I recently got was that Nascar uses 5W-20. Pro-stock drag cars use 0W-5. Both are after max hp. Nascar uses oil cooler's.... so 5W-20 may be a non issue.

I use RP HPS 5W-30. It has loads of ZDDP in it ( like 1100-1300 vs the 800 max of the api SN oils). It also has synerlec in it. On RP's plane jane api SM oils, only 5W-40 has synerlec in it, but even then, the zddp is maxed out at 800...which imo, is not enough. Unless you are using 1 qt of oil every 1000 miles, higher levels of ZDDP will not destroy cats any time soon. Mine uses zero oil between oil chnages, except for 1 oz caught in the catch can.

As per the CAFE issue. It's only in the usa + canada that Ford recommends using 5W-20. In new zeland, australia and asia, Ford sez to use 5W-30 in the winter...and 10W-30 in the summer. In Europe, Ford sez to use either 0W-40 or 5W-40....pick one.

I did notice something interesting though, when I switched from motorcraft 5W-20 to RP 5W-30...then to RP HPS 5W-30. The catch can no longer looks like a chocolate milk shake. It now looks like regular oil...and no where near as much either. When I initially switched to RP, I also switched to using FRPP oil filters.

On the 2014 Roush and GT cars with the track pack option, Ford sez to use motorcraft 5W-50. The non track pack cars use 5W-20... yet the engs are IDENTICAL..except for the oil cooler. The MC 5W-50 will quickly shear to a 40 weight oil. Where as Amsoil 5W-50 will not shear at all, or extremely little.... the 50Weight is just too thick, and oil pressure is sky high. Amsoil 10W-40 or 5W-40 ( if using amsoil oil) is the correct oil, since the 40 weight won't shear either.

The whole thing hinges on ultimate use..and WX. Track racing in the summer, with sustained high rpm's in one issue. Starting at freezing, plus or minus a few degrees...so you can run errands is another issue. Saleen sez to use 5W-20.....in NA cars.....and 5W-30 if a blower is used.
Mobil-1 also sells 0W-20, as do other's..which may be the real ticket to use during winter months.

If thicker oil is used, oil pressure at both idle + wot goes way up.... but flow rate doesn't change...(or shouldn't very much), slightly more energy is used to pump the oil. Thicker oils will provide a thicker film at high temps. If the oil temps are sky high... like track racing in the summer, an oil cooler is the real answer..and thicker oil.

I don't track the car, don't have an oil cooler, just the small m90 blower, and put on 8k miles per year...car used all year round. So oil is changed on spec every 6 months.

RP warned me about not using anything higher than 5W-30 in a plane jane oem 3 valve 4.6. (05-10 cars). 5W-40 was ok, but only in hot summer wx.

VMP added more fuel to the de-acceleration tables, to help cool the oem cats....after a wot run with the blower on. Once the JBA ceramic LT's were installed plus mating JBA high flow cats, the extra fuel was reduced. In retrospect, I shoulda used an un-catted H. I still might next spring, 'easy' swap. 15W-40 is typ used in diesel engs....and contains extra additives.

Jimbo

 

[stang67]

I chose the Jdm stroker kit cause after several phone calls to places I was so confused at the end herd a lot of bad things about the brenspeed slash Saleen kit because of the cp pistons and there customer service was not that good I waited for a call from them for a couple days then had to call them back , so I called Jdm and talked to Jim jr and talked about kits and pros and cons he spent a lot of time helping me and ver good deals I would absolutely use them again and that s where I am sending the car after I put the engine back in to get tuned some times engine failure could be caused by a tuner I have seen this alot

 

[BruceH]

I know that 5w20 wasn't available in Australia until about a year ago. I would think that had something to do with what was used.

You are free to regurgitate oil conspiracy kool aid but don't expect everyone to go along with it.

Edit: I should add that I'm a very skeptical person. New car motors keep getting better and lasting longer. As long as the oil meets api and viscosity then it meets the manufacturers critera. One member on here has or had a 2009 F150 with over 260,000 miles. He always used Motorcraft 5w-20 and a Motorcraft filter. This isn't unusual for a mod motor. They last a long time if you follow their service routines.

A friend of mine just put a nascar motor in his car. He told me they run 0w-2 for racing. The reason is that the motor runs hot and hot metal expands so the clearances get tighter. Tighter clearances need an oil that will maintain a wedge and take away heat. Too thick of an oil and it's not going to have enough flow.

For the most part this forum isn't like the others. Most of the members here do enough to their cars that changing oil isn't a big subject. We see how our motors look upon teardown so if something was amiss with the oil it would show up. I've taken a few 3v motors apart and there just isn't any extra wear or failure caused by using 5w-20 in my motors. The most important thing about oil is that it gets where it needs to go and in the correct volume to prevent an oil wedge breakdown in the bearings. It also has to get to the top end and maintain a wedge for the cams. Scored cams or damaged followers = a lubrication problem. That's my opinion anyway.

The story I recently got was that Nascar uses 5W-20. Pro-stock drag cars use 0W-5. Both are after max hp. Nascar uses oil cooler's.... so 5W-20 may be a non issue.

I use RP HPS 5W-30. It has loads of ZDDP in it ( like 1100-1300 vs the 800 max of the api SN oils). It also has synerlec in it. On RP's plane jane api SM oils, only 5W-40 has synerlec in it, but even then, the zddp is maxed out at 800...which imo, is not enough. Unless you are using 1 qt of oil every 1000 miles, higher levels of ZDDP will not destroy cats any time soon. Mine uses zero oil between oil chnages, except for 1 oz caught in the catch can.

As per the CAFE issue. It's only in the usa + canada that Ford recommends using 5W-20. In new zeland, australia and asia, Ford sez to use 5W-30 in the winter...and 10W-30 in the summer. In Europe, Ford sez to use either 0W-40 or 5W-40....pick one.

I did notice something interesting though, when I switched from motorcraft 5W-20 to RP 5W-30...then to RP HPS 5W-30. The catch can no longer looks like a chocolate milk shake. It now looks like regular oil...and no where near as much either. When I initially switched to RP, I also switched to using FRPP oil filters.

On the 2014 Roush and GT cars with the track pack option, Ford sez to use motorcraft 5W-50. The non track pack cars use 5W-20... yet the engs are IDENTICAL..except for the oil cooler. The MC 5W-50 will quickly shear to a 40 weight oil. Where as Amsoil 5W-50 will not shear at all, or extremely little.... the 50Weight is just too thick, and oil pressure is sky high. Amsoil 10W-40 or 5W-40 ( if using amsoil oil) is the correct oil, since the 40 weight won't shear either.

The whole thing hinges on ultimate use..and WX. Track racing in the summer, with sustained high rpm's in one issue. Starting at freezing, plus or minus a few degrees...so you can run errands is another issue. Saleen sez to use 5W-20.....in NA cars.....and 5W-30 if a blower is used.
Mobil-1 also sells 0W-20, as do other's..which may be the real ticket to use during winter months.

If thicker oil is used, oil pressure at both idle + wot goes way up.... but flow rate doesn't change...(or shouldn't very much), slightly more energy is used to pump the oil. Thicker oils will provide a thicker film at high temps. If the oil temps are sky high... like track racing in the summer, an oil cooler is the real answer..and thicker oil.

I don't track the car, don't have an oil cooler, just the small m90 blower, and put on 8k miles per year...car used all year round. So oil is changed on spec every 6 months.

RP warned me about not using anything higher than 5W-30 in a plane jane oem 3 valve 4.6. (05-10 cars). 5W-40 was ok, but only in hot summer wx.

VMP added more fuel to the de-acceleration tables, to help cool the oem cats....after a wot run with the blower on. Once the JBA ceramic LT's were installed plus mating JBA high flow cats, the extra fuel was reduced. In retrospect, I shoulda used an un-catted H. I still might next spring, 'easy' swap. 15W-40 is typ used in diesel engs....and contains extra additives.

Jimbo

 

[AutoXRacer]

OK, guys... Lets go back to the intent of the thread. I really appreciate your oil discussion.

I will be running 5W-30 in dead middle of winter, since I drive my car in the winter and 10W-30 in the summer since I track the car and am a race whore.

Although, 10W-30 is also speced for use in 0* F weather.

Now, where the hell are all the JDM motor owners!!???

We only have a handful...?

 

[Speed+Clinic]

Virgin sample of RP 5w-20



Same oil after being beat on with a Whippled, newly built 4.6 3v.



That was the end of my oil geek phase. I still trust Ford better than a former engineer.

As per the CAFE issue. It's only in the usa + canada that Ford recommends using 5W-20. In new zeland, australia and asia, Ford sez to use 5W-30 in the winter...and 10W-30 in the summer. In Europe, Ford sez to use either 0W-40 or 5W-40....pick one.

Jimbo

Bruce now who are you gonna trust

 

[Speed+Clinic]

OK, guys... Lets go back to the intent of the thread. I really appreciate your oil discussion.

I will be running 5W-30 in dead middle of winter, since I drive my car in the winter and 10W-30 in the summer since I track the car and am a race whore.

Although, 10W-30 is also speced for use in 0* F weather.

Now, where the hell are all the JDM motor owners!!???

We only have a handful...?

Congrats on making an educated decision and not what a simple sticker says.

 

[Speed+Clinic]

I know that 5w20 wasn't available in Australia until about a year ago. I would think that had something to do with what was used.

You are free to regurgitate oil conspiracy kool aid but don't expect everyone to go along with it.

Edit: I should add that I'm a very skeptical person. New car motors keep getting better and lasting longer. As long as the oil meets api and viscosity then it meets the manufacturers critera. One member on here has or had a 2009 F150 with over 260,000 miles. He always used Motorcraft 5w-20 and a Motorcraft filter. This isn't unusual for a mod motor. They last a long time if you follow their service routines.

A friend of mine just put a nascar motor in his car. He told me they run 0w-2 for racing. The reason is that the motor runs hot and hot metal expands so the clearances get tighter. Tighter clearances need an oil that will maintain a wedge and take away heat. Too thick of an oil and it's not going to have enough flow.

For the most part this forum isn't like the others. Most of the members here do enough to their cars that changing oil isn't a big subject. We see how our motors look upon teardown so if something was amiss with the oil it would show up. I've taken a few 3v motors apart and there just isn't any extra wear or failure caused by using 5w-20 in my motors. The most important thing about oil is that it gets where it needs to go and in the correct volume to prevent an oil wedge breakdown in the bearings. It also has to get to the top end and maintain a wedge for the cams. Scored cams or damaged followers = a lubrication problem. That's my opinion anyway.

a while back someone had problems with 5w-20 breaking down after a track day. Granted he was using motorcraft oil but if you look at the viscosity #'s from redline/amsoil/RP they are closer to a 30 weight than a real 20 weight 2 cents. I'll go with what the "former" engineer from ford says. That same engineer left ford to work for a small racing team. You might have heard of them...

Scott Whitehead's Overview

Current
Race Engineer at Germain Racing
Driving / Racing Instructor, Freelance Engineer & Consultant at Various
Past
Analysis / Vehicle Dynamics Engineer (NASCAR) at Michael Waltrip Racing
Crew Chief (Grand-Am Series) at Rehagen Racing
Engine Systems / Development Engineer at Ford Motor Company
Consultant / Advisor at MIT Motorsports
see less
Education
Massachusetts Institute of Technology

vs

CAFE Sticker

 

[BruceH]

a while back someone had problems with 5w-20 breaking down after a track day. Granted he was using motorcraft oil but if you look at the viscosity #'s from redline/amsoil/RP they are closer to a 30 weight than a real 20 weight 2 cents. I'll go with what the "former" engineer from ford says. That same engineer left ford to work for a small racing team. You might have heard of them...

Scott Whitehead's Overview

Current
Race Engineer at Germain Racing
Driving / Racing Instructor, Freelance Engineer & Consultant at Various
Past
Analysis / Vehicle Dynamics Engineer (NASCAR) at Michael Waltrip Racing
Crew Chief (Grand-Am Series) at Rehagen Racing
Engine Systems / Development Engineer at Ford Motor Company
Consultant / Advisor at MIT Motorsports
see less
Education
Massachusetts Institute of Technology

vs

CAFE Sticker

How long do those engines last? 260,000+ miles pulling a trailer? What are the clearances of those motors?

We can do this all day. I'll go with Ford, the company that kicked your guy to the curb. The same company that has been building mod motors for over 20 years and has an excellent, well deserved rep for longevity with those motors.

Like I've said before, run what you want. This isn't a forum where changing oil is a technical achievement. We take responsibility for our actions. If my motor spins a bearing I'm not going to blame it on cats, I'm going to find out why it spun and report what I find.

My experience has been fantastic using 5w-20. I believe that the numbers are proper for a mod motor with factory clearances. I want an oil that's going to flow through the increasingly smaller clearances caused by the motor heating up. That's what happens when the motor hits operating temps, the clearances tighten up.

I'm going to request that any further discussion between us happen via pm. The OP would like his thread back.

I'm also going to ask again very nicely for an oil section. I'm also tempeted to move any oil related discussion to the Great Oil Debate that is a sticky in Chit Chat. All we are doing is cluttering up this thread.

 

[Speed+Clinic]

How long do those engines last? 260,000+ miles pulling a trailer? What are the clearances of those motors?

We can do this all day. I'll go with Ford, the company that kicked your guy to the curb. The same company that has been building mod motors for over 20 years and has an excellent, well deserved rep for longevity with those motors.

Like I've said before, run what you want. This isn't a forum where changing oil is a technical achievement. We take responsibility for our actions. If my motor spins a bearing I'm not going to blame it on cats, I'm going to find out why it spun and report what I find.

My experience has been fantastic using 5w-20. I believe that the numbers are proper for a mod motor with factory clearances. I want an oil that's going to flow through the increasingly smaller clearances caused by the motor heating up. That's what happens when the motor hits operating temps, the clearances tighten up.

I'm going to request that any further discussion between us happen via pm. The OP would like his thread back.

I'm also going to ask again very nicely for an oil section. I'm also tempeted to move any oil related discussion to the Great Oil Debate that is a sticky in Chit Chat. All we are doing is cluttering up this thread.

lol seriously? 4 months ago it was that there was no 5w-20 in new zealand or w/e and then when I showed you the link of an australian company selling the 5w20 it all changed. Man I am sorry, I do not like to be direct or to take a stand like this. Specially on an internet discussion... Got I fell inmature but I just can't let you continue on your line unless you got something better than "the sticker from ford says 5w20" when I have brought on links from an ex ford engineer(he didn't take the curb; he just decided to go with a nascar CREW CHIEF position instead of working at ford disassembling the 3v to see if the lubrication is ok), oil recommendations from saleen/roush/steeda recommending 30 weights and when even ford recommends heavier oil when CAFE standards are NOT in play.

I do agree that the OP deserves his thread but if you are gonna try to influence people's decision you gotta bring at least some back instead of what/if/suppose etc etc. There is direct data on this same forum of 5w-20 failing on some users; YET there is not even 1 on a 5w30 failing one user. It is all about engines and if you want to put water in yours it's ok. After all it's your engine man. Again I sincerely apologize and hope this isn't taken as a jab or something. Take care man and anything else on pm. Let this guy have his 302 thread back.

 

[RocketcarX]

I gotta ask, how is this considered tech? I mean even the OP wasn't talking tech...Threads like this in tech are why it's so hard for new people to wrap their head around what's ok to post in tech.
Not that I haven't found this thing to be a great read, just saying.

 

[BruceH]

lol seriously? 4 months ago it was that there was no 5w-20 in new zealand or w/e and then when I showed you the link of an australian company selling the 5w20 it all changed. Man I am sorry, I do not like to be direct or to take a stand like this. Specially on an internet discussion... Got I fell inmature but I just can't let you continue on your line unless you got something better than "the sticker from ford says 5w20" when I have brought on links from an ex ford engineer(he didn't take the curb; he just decided to go with a nascar CREW CHIEF position instead of working at ford disassembling the 3v to see if the lubrication is ok), oil recommendations from saleen/roush/steeda recommending 30 weights and when even ford recommends heavier oil when CAFE standards are NOT in play.

I do agree that the OP deserves his thread but if you are gonna try to influence people's decision you gotta bring at least some back instead of what/if/suppose etc etc. There is direct data on this same forum of 5w-20 failing on some users; YET there is not even 1 on a 5w30 failing one user. It is all about engines and if you want to put water in yours it's ok. After all it's your engine man. Again I sincerely apologize and hope this isn't taken as a jab or something. Take care man and anything else on pm. Let this guy have his 302 thread back.

I asked you as nice as I could to take this to pm if you felt the need to continue.

Instead you have made up things that didn't happen. Once again, if you really feel the need to argue with me about oil then bring it to pm and leave this thread alone.