New DOB Article – 3v PD Blower Buyers Guide

[Pentalab]

Let's say you're building a 3V for 450 rwhp (since this thread is about 3Vs). You can achieve that with the GT450 kit with the M122.

Your objective is to maximize reliability and longevity, however, along with the ability to daily drive (12k miles per year) in up to 100* weather without ridiculously-high IATs. So what additional parts would you add to the kit? Obviously, you would want a huge heat exchanger and high-volume pump. Would you utilize a different belt and/or tensioner to reduce shock on the crank and blower? A larger-diameter pulley on the blower to slightly reduce boost, harmonics, and parasitic loss?

Like I said, I overengineer for reliability.

For the 10-12 cars, toss the useless oem upper grille, it impedes airflow like crazy. Once the 7 bar grille is installed, you will have also eliminated 2 x 90 deg bends into the cai.

Ceramic coated LT's and your choice of catted or uncatted H or X. That will reduce underhood temps by 40 F. And this is before modifying the hood for hood vents etc.

Any HE setup is not optimum.... if you can't get air through it. Ceramic coated LT's + high flow cats won't cook the eng bay. Oem cats will easily hit 1900 F..and located at base of eng bay. Oem exhaust from the block on wards will also cook the eng bay.

For DD street/ hwy / road course use, and high outside ambient temps, cut way back on the boost..the LT's will make up for the power.

The VMP gen 2 blower (tvs2300) is elbowless, way more eff than the original roush tvs / vmp gen 1 blowers. Another 2+ psi boost on the gen 2 blower... with the same size blower pulley. Great, now you can increase the blower pulley even more, to reduce boost back to it's former level.....and reduce it yet again for track / high ambient temps / use.

The 11-14 cars will all do 440 rwhp..with no blower (just tune + LT's + cai). If you wanted to keep it really conservative, say 475-500 rwhp, it's hardly worth the expense + weight of a blower... for the extra 35-60 rwhp.

 

[Department Of Boost]

In regards to the pump and hood in the above safe 450 setup. Would a Davies EWP150 be a better choice than the OEM '13 GT500 pump? Better in that it helps delay heat soak in the 110 degree summer during daily driving. As far as the hood, would the stock 07-09 GT500 hood be just as good as say cutting the stock GT hood and using the 10-14 GT500 hood vent.

Different pumps work best at certain restrictions (line and IC size). The 13' GT500 pump flows 10.25gpm at .75" line size. The EWP150 flows 7.5gpm at .75" line size. So in this case the GT500 pump kicks its butt.

Change the line and IC size to 1.25" and it flip flops. The EWP150 flows 19gpm while the 13' GT500 flows 10.75gpm.

Every application will have a best pump.

 

[Department Of Boost]

For the 10-12 cars, toss the useless oem upper grille, it impedes airflow like crazy. Once the 7 bar grille is installed, you will have also eliminated 2 x 90 deg bends into the cai.

That's not how that works. See Bernoulli's principle:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernoulli%27s_principle

Additionally if you don't have anywhere for that extra air that is coming through the grill then through the coolers to escape to (vented hood) the gains will be very minimal. The bucket is already overflowing stock. Adding more to the bucket is not the solution.

 

[Sky Render]

Don't bother, bro. We've already had the grille airflow discussion with him; he's still convinced the car runs cooler on the track with it.

 

[Department Of Boost]

Don't bother, bro. We've already had the grille airflow discussion with him; he's still convinced the car runs cooler on the track with it.

10/4

 

[Department Of Boost]

I missed these:

As far as the hood, would the stock 07-09 GT500 hood be just as good as say cutting the stock GT hood and using the 10-14 GT500 hood vent.

Both of those vents move a little air. But not a ton. I've opened up the 07-09 GT500 vents by removing every other rib and removing some of the bracing below them. That helped out a LOT! So much so that you could feel the lack of lift on the front end. It reduced engine compartment temps considerably too (I had a themocouple for that). While driving down the freeway they were only a couple deg over ambient. In town maybe 20deg over. They would still get hot at stop lights. But as soon as you started moving they dropped right back down.

For reference your average non vented underhood temp is on the 160-190deg range.

Ignore the smaller vents further back on the hood. They were useless.

What's this Franken tensioner of which you speak?

http://departmentofboost.com/products/2005_2010_mustang_gt/frankentensioner.htm

 

[Pentalab]

Don't bother, bro. We've already had the grille airflow discussion with him; he's still convinced the car runs cooler on the track with it.

Tell that to the guys who all had their cars go into limp mode, while on the track. Ditto with the Boss cars, and their blocked off fog lamps. Even with the fog lamp covers removed, they still went into limp mode. The only thing that worked was either the 7 bar grille, or removing the oem upper grille all together. Measure the before and after underhood temps, and you will measure the difference right away. The 13/14 GT-500 cars don't even have an upper grille.

 

[Pentalab]

That's not how that works. See Bernoulli's principle:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernoulli%27s_principle

Additionally if you don't have anywhere for that extra air that is coming through the grill then through the coolers to escape to (vented hood) the gains will be very minimal. The bucket is already overflowing stock. Adding more to the bucket is not the solution.

So why did my boost increase.....5 mins after the 7 bar grille install ? My theory is, the venturi effect was eliminated. A 60-100 mph airflow through the front grille, is not about to do a 90 deg bend anytime soon, instead it creates a venturi effect, which is not what you want for the cai intake, which is at the extreme driver's side on a 2010.

A HE, power steering cooler, AC rad, 2 x auto tranny rads, 1 x eng rad = 6 x rads in total. (7 if you throw in an eng oil cooler). I need all the air I can get to make it through all that mess, b4 it even gets into the eng bay.

 

[Sky Render]

 

[Department Of Boost]

This message is hidden because Pentalab is on your ignore list.

 

[wht67]

FRPP Whipple questions

Good reading in both articles! I have a Whipple setup on my car. Started out as a BNIB non-intercooled kit I got from a Ford dealership in 2010 that was the last of the 7 kits they had bought in 2007 for installation on new Mustangs. I got it for a steal ($2500!). Installed it and ran it that way for nearly 2 years (not my DD). I then found a deal on an HO upgrade kit on Amazon for $2100. I replaced the 255lph pumps in the GT500 hat that came with the kit with 340lph pumps and have been running that since 2013. I am hoping to finally install the JDM stroker short block and ported big valve heads I have this winter. I have an Afco heat exchanger to install at that time if I can't get one of your new ones. My question is regarding installing 3/4" fittings on the Whipple intercooler. Do you have any pictures or more info on that?

I found a picture you had posted a few years ago of a ported Whipple elbow and I hope to do that as well, do you have any pictures or info of the bigger CAI you mentioned?

Thanks!

Wayne

 

[Department Of Boost]

Good reading in both articles! I have a Whipple setup on my car. Started out as a BNIB non-intercooled kit I got from a Ford dealership in 2010 that was the last of the 7 kits they had bought in 2007 for installation on new Mustangs. I got it for a steal ($2500!). Installed it and ran it that way for nearly 2 years (not my DD). I then found a deal on an HO upgrade kit on Amazon for $2100. I replaced the 255lph pumps in the GT500 hat that came with the kit with 340lph pumps and have been running that since 2013. I am hoping to finally install the JDM stroker short block and ported big valve heads I have this winter. I have an Afco heat exchanger to install at that time if I can't get one of your new ones. My question is regarding installing 3/4" fittings on the Whipple intercooler. Do you have any pictures or more info on that?

I found a picture you had posted a few years ago of a ported Whipple elbow and I hope to do that as well, do you have any pictures or info of the bigger CAI you mentioned?

Thanks!

Wayne

Sorry, no pics of the CAI.

 

[blacllkllsi]

I just ordered the GT450 kit. I noticed that the R Spec kit manifold was improved with a composite material along the bottom to address the heat transfer from the heads to the manifold. I was thinking of adding something like this to my GT450 manifold using a few sheets of gasket maker or a high temp rubber coating along the bottom of the manifold where it sits in the valley. Would there be any benefit in doing this? Would it help with heat transfer or IAT's or would this not be recommended?


Wrap this part...



With something like this...

https://m.summitracing.com/parts/fe...e1-_-fel-pro&gclid=CJaR7rLNl88CFdcYgQod51EJ-g

 

[Wes06]

It doesn't have a lot of clearance to add on

You have to grind part of a head and the knock sensor bolts.

 

[blacllkllsi]

It doesn't have a lot of clearance to add on

You have to grind part of a head and the knock sensor bolts.

Yeah, I knew it would be a tight fit, that gasket material is pretty thin however.

 

[Department Of Boost]

I just ordered the GT450 kit. I noticed that the R Spec kit manifold was improved with a composite material along the bottom to address the heat transfer from the heads to the manifold. I was thinking of adding something like this to my GT450 manifold using a few sheets of gasket maker or a high temp rubber coating along the bottom of the manifold where it sits in the valley. Would there be any benefit in doing this? Would it help with heat transfer or IAT's or would this not be recommended?

It would help, but you still have the coolant running through the body of the manifold. The reason it works so well on the R-Spec and GT550 is that the manifolds have no coolant running through them.

Wrap this part...



With something like this...

https://m.summitracing.com/parts/fe...e1-_-fel-pro&gclid=CJaR7rLNl88CFdcYgQod51EJ-g

[/QUOTE]

I've shielded a bunch of the pans with this stuff. It's the best working heat barrier (I tested a bunch of them) and I'm 99% sure it helps with IAT's.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/dei-050502?seid=srese1&cm_mmc=pla-google-_-shopping-_-srese1-_-design-engineering-dei&gclid=Cj0KEQjw9vi-BRCx1_GZgN7N4voBEiQAaACKVkmJO4p_Q71IS-2tLZq2Gw-1q3BElBk00OQcIv_Z_z8aAgQ08P8HAQ

 

[blacllkllsi]

Thanks for the link. That heat shield material looks like a better option and it is self adhesive.

 

[Pentalab]

https://www.summitracing.com/int/se...loor-and-tunnel-shields-ii?retaillocation=int Comes in 3 x different sizes.
Smallest is 21" x 24" $40.97

 

[Department Of Boost]

So why did my boost increase.....5 mins after the 7 bar grille install ?

You have a data set of............................one. Which isn't data. Not with the elevindy billion other variables in play.

My theory is, the venturi effect was eliminated. A 60-100 mph airflow through the front grille, is not about to do a 90 deg bend anytime soon, instead it creates a venturi effect, which is not what you want for the cai intake, which is at the extreme driver's side on a 2010.

A HE, power steering cooler, AC rad, 2 x auto tranny rads, 1 x eng rad = 6 x rads in total. (7 if you throw in an eng oil cooler). I need all the air I can get to make it through all that mess, b4 it even gets into the eng bay.

I will one again refer you to Bernoulli's principle. When applied to how aerodynamics at the front of a car actually work your theory doesn't stand up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernoulli%27s_principle

 

[46addict]

So what you are saying is, a larger volume of air flow will slow the air velocity which hurts the radiators' ability to transfer heat?

Without understanding Bernoulli's math formula, higher velocity means lower air pressure. Does this apply to the venturi effect on the CAI?