Stop looking for Teksid blocks

[169stang]

A Teksid will cost you $500 max while a new bare S197 block will cost you $1200.

 

[ZmanM3]

I got a teksid block because of price and its a proven block. Not better but it will deffentlfy hold what I want and was much cheaper. Plus I could get it down while away from home with out access to my car.

 

[Mustangfreak]

So, if I had the means, and I could just put better internals in my block, it would be the best thing to do?

03-04 Cobra internals fit no prob right?

 

[94tbird]

I built my engine completely separate from the stock motor. Therefor for me the Teksid was the answer as it was a proven block and only a few hundred bucks vs the 05 block which is 1k or more. Was a pretty simple choice

 

[Bingo]

I'm guessing people go out and buy different blocks (Teksid) so they have as little downtime as possible while the engine is being built...not to mention the cost factor as everyone has noted.

 

[Slofoot]

So, if I had the means, and I could just put better internals in my block, it would be the best thing to do?

03-04 Cobra internals fit no prob right?

The Cobra pistons are relieved for four valves. They would "fit" but would not be correct. Just get a set of H beam forged rods for the 4.6L mod motor and a set of three valve forged pistons from your favorite manufacturer...JE,Ross,Manley,Mahle...etc and you will be golden. The stock crank is good to around 800hp.

 

[svt boost]

slofoot, how do you know the limits of the stock crank. Adam at ST motorsports has said much the same thing ie if you want to build you block for the 600rwhp range their is really no reason to swap the crank out.

 

[Slofoot]

I am just going by common knowledge of the limits of a nodular iron crankshaft. If you want to be certain install a 4340 forged crank when you build your engine. The 03-04 Cobra crank is a forged crankshaft but I personally believe that the aftermarket cranks such as Eagle or Scat are somewhat stronger. JMHO

 

[Larry_H]

The stock 05+ block is as strong, possible stronger, than the Teksid block. Here is how I know. The main failure point in a block is the main webbing. Distortions in the main webbing will cause all kinds of strange things to happen to the rest of the block..ie: out of round cylinder walls, causing the entire block to not be in alignment with all those moving parts. This is a test I have been doing for decades on blocks.

I place a inside micrometer at the bottom of the bore. Then I attach the main caps and torque them. If the mic falls out, then I know that there will be some level of distortion in the block at higher RPM's when all that metal is flying around. This is not necessarily a doomsday scenario. It will depends on how much strength the bolted on heads add to the equation.

Now, every cast iron and aluminum block from every manufacturer has some amount of flex in the cylinder walls. I have never, ever had a mic stay in the bore. Sometimes the flex is .002 and I have seen it up at high as .0120.

That is until I tested a Teksid block. The mic didn't move. There was no measurable flex in the cylinder walls. This was a first for me. I had never seen this in 40 years of building motors. Not from Ford, GM, Mopar, Jaguar, BMW, Mercedes or any other mfg including KB, Dart and World aftermarket racing blocks.

I did the same test on the 05+ block...same results.

The main reason I have been using the Teksid block is that they are readily available( I have 22 in my shop right now) and the supply line for the used 05+ block is non-existent. And a new 05+ block from FRPP is close to $1,000 after shipping costs are included.

Most of my customers either murdered their stock blocks or were not willing to have the downtime associated with pulling their engine, sending me the block and then waiting for their new engine to arrive.

This Aluminator block falls into the same category. Its a great block, but when a set of $89 motor mount adapter plates and $5 worth of thread inserts will save you $500+, most people are going to go for the used Teksid block.

 

[94tbird]

The stock 05+ block is as strong, possible stronger, than the Teksid block. Here is how I know. The main failure point in a block is the main webbing. Distortions in the main webbing will cause all kinds of strange things to happen to the rest of the block..ie: out of round cylinder walls, causing the entire block to not be in alignment with all those moving parts. This is a test I have been doing for decades on blocks.

I place a inside micrometer at the bottom of the bore. Then I attach the main caps and torque them. If the mic falls out, then I know that there will be some level of distortion in the block at higher RPM's when all that metal is flying around. This is not necessarily a doomsday scenario. It will depends on how much strength the bolted on heads add to the equation.

Now, every cast iron and aluminum block from every manufacturer has some amount of flex in the cylinder walls. I have never, ever had a mic stay in the bore. Sometimes the flex is .002 and I have seen it up at high as .0120.

That is until I tested a Teksid block. The mic didn't move. There was no measurable flex in the cylinder walls. This was a first for me. I had never seen this in 40 years of building motors. Not from Ford, GM, Mopar, Jaguar, BMW, Mercedes or any other mfg including KB, Dart and World aftermarket racing blocks.

I did the same test on the 05+ block...same results.

The main reason I have been using the Teksid block is that they are readily available( I have 22 in my shop right now) and the supply line for the used 05+ block is non-existent. And a new 05+ block from FRPP is close to $1,000 after shipping costs are included.

Most of my customers either murdered their stock blocks or were not willing to have the downtime associated with pulling their engine, sending me the block and then waiting for their new engine to arrive.

This Aluminator block falls into the same category. Its a great block, but when a set of $89 motor mount adapter plates and $5 worth of thread inserts will save you $500+, most people are going to go for the used Teksid block.

couldn't have said it better myself

 

[MrClean]

That's good to know kevin, I really want to keep with the factory aluminum block in my car.

Exactly! When I'm out of warranty, buy another car for transportation purposes and the Stang becomes purely a toy, and I therefore lose the fear of extensive mods, I would like to keep the stock block in the car too.

People have been saying for quite a while that the S197 blocks are good for big horsepower. The reason everyone gets the Teksid is because...well..lets face it, they are cheap and easy to come by. The S197 blocks are still pretty pricey in comparison unless you stumble on to a hell of a deal. I have every intention of building my lower end on a S197 block platform. Just waiting for them to become a little more economical.

Hawg, are you still runiing your stock block?

Zackly... when I was building mine, the teksid I bought was 1/2 the cost of a new 3V block. I didn't have the luxury of re-using my stock block.

What happened to the stocker?

I paid $1500 for a complete junkyard 2005 Mustang GT 4.6 with 11K miles. I sent that engine to VT for building. Dropped right in my car, no adapters or drilling necessary. Sold the stock engine for $1700, so I made $200 on the deal.

Now don't ask me how much I spent for the VT build, we don't want my wife to find out do we?

C'mon dude! That was the very question I was going to ask!
Thanks for posting the article.

 

[ZmanM3]

I still have mind, I haven't decided what I want to do with it yet. I have some ideas I'm toying with.

 

[GIG4FUN]

I still have mind, I haven't decided what I want to do with it yet. I have some ideas I'm toying with.

my "mind" left me ... you lucky dog

 

[MrClean]

The stock 05+ block is as strong, possible stronger, than the Teksid block......I did the same test on the 05+ block...same results.

The main reason I have been using the Teksid block is that they are readily available( I have 22 in my shop right now) and the supply line for the used 05+ block is non-existent. And a new 05+ block from FRPP is close to $1,000 after shipping costs are included..

That is great education for the uninitiated in extensive mods like me. Now I know there's a thread on boring and stroking the S197 4.6, and I recall some discussion about piston slap, and that you can't really get a 302 ci displacement without piston slap ("PS") from happening. I can't recall if you weighed in on that discussion, Larry, but I wonder if you would care to comment. The reason I ask is in light of the Saleen PJ Mustang, and the 400 hp they got out of the engine by evidently boring and/or stroking it.
I may prefer to stay NA when I really start modding the engine, so this is an avenue that I'd like to explore.

A question for Kevin @ PMP: what driveshaft do people with 800 hp motors typically run?

 

[MrClean]

I still have mind, I haven't decided what I want to do with it yet. I have some ideas I'm toying with.

900 hp twin turbo?

my "mind" left me ... you lucky dog

 

[ZmanM3]

900 hp twin turbo?

Probably not, I'm thinking of saving it and possibably putting it in another car, but that wouldn't be for a couple of years.

 

[ZmanM3]

That is great education for the uninitiated in extensive mods like me. Now I know there's a thread on boring and stroking the S197 4.6, and I recall some discussion about piston slap, and that you can't really get a 302 ci displacement without piston slap ("PS") from happening. I can't recall if you weighed in on that discussion, Larry, but I wonder if you would care to comment. The reason I ask is in light of the Saleen PJ Mustang, and the 400 hp they got out of the engine by evidently boring and/or stroking it.
I may prefer to stay NA when I really start modding the engine, so this is an avenue that I'd like to explore.

A question for Kevin @ PMP: what driveshaft do people with 800 hp motors typically run?

Thats why I gave him some rep points.

 

[Larry_H]

That is great education for the uninitiated in extensive mods like me. Now I know there's a thread on boring and stroking the S197 4.6, and I recall some discussion about piston slap, and that you can't really get a 302 ci displacement without piston slap ("PS") from happening. I can't recall if you weighed in on that discussion, Larry, but I wonder if you would care to comment. The reason I ask is in light of the Saleen PJ Mustang, and the 400 hp they got out of the engine by evidently boring and/or stroking it.
I may prefer to stay NA when I really start modding the engine, so this is an avenue that I'd like to explore.

A question for Kevin @ PMP: what driveshaft do people with 800 hp motors typically run?

Piston slap is something that most engine builders will tell you is inherent in all stroker motors. That is just an excuse for being lazy and not taking the time necessary to properly measure and build accordingly.

I've built many strokers over the years and I was fortunate enough to learn the proper way to do it a long, long time ago. So far those lessons have worked out well. Many storkers built, no piston slap yet.

And, if you experence piston slap in a modular motor that has been stroked, you have really found yourself either a lazy engine builder or one that doesnt have a clue because the pistons slap is caused by the out of round condition at the bottom of the cylinder and Mod motors dont suffer from that condition. So, the only way a piston could slap in a mod motor is because the machinist wasn't paying very close attention to the specs.

 

[169stang]

I tend to believe that the majority will see torching/detonation before finding the limits of a Teksid or S197 block.

 

[lostsoul]

I tend to believe that the majority will see torching/detonation before finding the limits of a Teksid or S197 block.

Just as long as its not me finding it!..... I vote for Chevykiller