Sway Bars w/ Whiteline RLCA Relo Brackets?

[Ivan 5.0]

Anyone know which aftermarket sway bar will clear the Whiteline rear lca relocatio brackets, other than Whiteline?

I saw a post that the Strano bar will not clear

EDIT on 01/26/2013 - Ordered Steeda 555-0172, Will update if rear fits w/ brackets

EDIT on 2/10/2013 - Sways fit w/ the whiteline relo brackets

 

[Red_Devil]

Other than Strano's bars i've never heard an issue with anyone's bars not clearing.

 

[Vorshlag-Fair]

The Whiteline Rear LCA Relocation Brackets are one of the better bolt-on kits for an S197 for clearing rear swaybars, actually:

They have a big "scallop" cut-out on the outboard edge of the bracket, made to clear stock style rear swaybar routing. We've had to modify other brands' Rear LCA relocation brackets to clear the stock style swaybars, but guess they don't clear everything?

Oh well... there are plenty of swaybar choices out there. These are not magic suspension components, meaning: there isn't huge amounts of performance to be found in a swaybar. It is a hunk of solid bar of tubular steel, sometimes with multiple mounting holes for adjustability, that provides roll resistance. The tunabilty of an adjustable swaybar helps you zero in on a good balance of under/oversteer/neutrality, but little else.

Most of your roll/dive/heave resistance can be set in the spring rates and dampers. That is my point of view. I've always considered myself "swaybar agnostic" and have run a dozen different brands over the years.

Good luck,

 

[kevinatfms]

i have the whiteline brackets + FRPP sways and they fit perfectly. no issues here.

 

[Sky Render]

If Strano's bars don't clear Whiteline's brackets, I would hazard a guess that they will have fitment issues with most relocation brackets.

 

[Ivan 5.0]

Can anyone confirm if the 2011+ Steeda Swaybar Kit will clear?

 

[LSlayer]

If Strano's bars don't clear Whiteline's brackets, I would hazard a guess that they will have fitment issues with most relocation brackets.

I spoke with sam strano last week and he told me that he doesn't run re-location brackets on his car.

 

[Sky Render]

Can anyone confirm if the 2011+ Steeda Swaybar Kit will clear?

Just get the Whiteline bar. It fits with any relocation bracket and allows the use of wider rear tires.

Sent from my toilet using Tapatalk

 

[Red_Devil]

I spoke with sam strano last week and he told me that he doesn't run re-location brackets on his car.

Correct, because the class that races in doesn't allow them.

 

[LSlayer]

Correct, because the class that races in doesn't allow them.

So do you know if or how he compensates for the improper LCA angle? He didnt seem to be overly concerned with it especially on a DD or street car. I guess is rationale was the fact that the Shelby GT was sold lowered without them so its not a big deal.

 

[fun4me]

Anyone know, if the UMI brackets will work w/ the 25mm strano bar?

 

[Red_Devil]

So do you know if or how he compensates for the improper LCA angle? He didnt seem to be overly concerned with it especially on a DD or street car. I guess is rationale was the fact that the Shelby GT was sold lowered without them so its not a big deal.

I couldn't tell you why, but I am sure he would be more than happy to give you an explanation if you call him.

That said, I wouldn't put any real merit behind the shelby GT rationale. I used to work for Saleen for years and I can tell you decisions like that boil down mostly to cost.

 

[Vorshlag-Fair]

So do you know if or how he compensates for the improper LCA angle? He didnt seem to be overly concerned with it especially on a DD or street car. I guess is rationale was the fact that the Shelby GT was sold lowered without them so its not a big deal.

In the SCCA you are forbidden to use relocation brackets in FStock, STX or ESP (the 3 main SCCA Solo classes where S197s can race). There are all sorts of other common aftermarket S197 suspension parts that are also illegal to use in these three SCCA classes. Often these suspension rules are illogical and needlessly handicap solid axle cars, but hey, its the SCCA. Logic and aftermarket solutions *never* come into play with their rules.

And an '07-08 Shelby Mustang used in the "FStock" class on 285mm Hoosier A6 tires (see above, left) there isn't a lot of extra horsepower to deal with. You're talking, what, 260-270 whp? All you can do is an air filter in the stock housing and mufflers, and these engines were rated at 315hp. Yes, they are lowered about 1.5" compared to a stock S197, and yes, rear LCA Relocation brackets would be a good idea for any sort of racing when you have lowered the back of an S197 that much. But it isn't the end of the world for that class. These guys racing in FStock have 285mm gumballs and special carbon upgraded diffs to help put the power down.

Where these brackets would really help is in the STX and ESP Solo classes, where you have a lowered car, more power, and sometimes less grip than FStock. In STX class with an S197 (above left - which we did in our '11 GT for a frustrating season and a half) you are dealing with much lower grip levels (max 265mm street tires) but all the power of an ESP car; in ESP trim (which we did for half a season) you are dealing with much more power (430 whp in our ESP car) than in Stock class, yet only marginally wider tires (such as the common 315mm A6).

So yea, someday I might write a letter asking for the $100-150 LCA brackets be allowed for Solid Axle cars in ST and SP. But given the track record of the SPAC/SEB lately, and the typical 2-4+ year time lag it takes to get any new allowance in the rulebook, I wouldn't hold my breath. If you want to use all of the aftermarket suspension options available for the S197 chassis then don't race in SCCA. No other large racing organization has as many rules and restrictions as this one, sadly.

But it is the only real place to autocross, so if that is your bag then just suck it up and write your letters.

Cheers,

 

[Sam Strano]

I don't use brackets because they are not legal in the classes the car is actually competitive in. What's more I never really cared because frankly they aren't necessary. I managed to win a lot of stuff in solid axle cars that were lowered, both in ESP and F-stock, Camaro and Mustang both without having brackets. I'm not one to seek rule changes to suit my personal needs and it's pretty clear that they aren't necessary and the rules aren't illogical. In fact there are already certain rules that allow live axle cars some mods that aren't relevant to any other car, I guess that's not enough for some folks. You might want them, LCA brackets, and that's a different thing. And I've got 'em if you want them, and bars that will work with them too.

Stock height S197's hop like mad. Lowered ones don't. And when I was running both cars in ProSolo I was leaving at time upward of 4500 rpm in both the Shelby and the 5.0, without wheelhop except when my shocks blew up at the ProFinale in 2010... Put my Koni Sports back on and voila, hop gone. Does launching at 4500 seem like a car that can't get any power down??????? Didn't think so.

I sell brackets. And I sell Whiteline bars. In fact I have a pretty decent deal on the Whiteline bars if that's what you want to do. While I have my preferences I'm not going to refuse to do business with you for having yours. But if you ask, I'll be honest with ya.

And it's not a cost factor either. I don't skimp on my stuff, I like winning to much. I also don't spend money on things I find to not be important (or not legal).

My bar is not designed about brackets for the simple reasons that I though I proved it wasn't necessary. Which is why I also carry other brands of other things like bars that will work with brackets if you are hell-bent on thinking you need them. I've got more variety of parts, on purpose, than most just for reasons like this.

FWIW, I think this video pretty clearly illustrates my point... It's a Shelby GT, you already know it's lowered, and you can see it's low between the springs and the tires I was running. I'm also paired up with another one I setup... notice neither car has any wheel hop... and seem to put power down ok even with the Trac-lok diffs. And this lot isn't very grippy either, the car hooks even harder on concrete. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DsdX9PybR8 As for the notion of 285 gumballs and special diffs. Wow. ok. Well all autocrossers run "gumballs" and many including Terry run even bigger ones than I did when I was in ESP... And the "special diffs". Uh, no. They are stock diffs, rebuilt in the stock way (no extra clutches or rearranged plates)... using Ford carbon clutches which don't bite any harder... they just don't wear out as fast as the organic clutches. And those are stock in Bullitt's and GT500's, really not very "special" and legal for that car based on a TSB for noise abatement.

 

[B2B]

They have a big "scallop" cut-out on the outboard edge of the bracket, made to clear stock style rear swaybar routing. We've had to modify other brands' Rear LCA relocation brackets to clear the stock style swaybars, but guess they don't clear everything?

I just wants to clarify that the interference is between LCA reloc bracket and the bolt that connect the sway bar end to the mount. As far as I can tell, there are no clearance issue between the LCA reloc bracket and the sway bar itself.

I originally have the sway bar bolts installed with the bolt head toward the outside of the car. The threaded portion of the bolts clearly was not going to clear the Whiteline LCA reloc brackets. Then I flipped the bolts so that bolt head is facing the middle of the car. The result was such a tight fit that the bolt head is grinding into the whiteline bracket as the axle swings through its range of motion.

 

[phoenix335]

In the SCCA you are forbidden to use relocation brackets in FStock, STX or ESP (the 3 main SCCA Solo classes where S197s can race).

I don't use brackets because they are not legal in the classes the car is actually competitive in.

Are they really not allowed. As I read the rule the mounting points can be altered which is what "relo" brackets actually do. I would argue that relocation is more significant (like relocation on mounting point more inboard or outboard on the axle itself) than moving the mounting point down by 1-2 inches.

Perhaps this is clarified somewhere in a supplemental?

The rule as written

"The lower arms may not be altered, except as permitted under
Section 14.8.B, or relocated. Methods of attachment and attachment
points are unrestricted but may serve no other purpose (e.g.,
chassis stiffening). This does not authorize removal of a weldedon
part of a subframe to accommodate the installation."

 

[Sam Strano]

Yes, the really are not allowed... the rule you are reading is talking about the arms.

Try this out... 15.8.I.5 "The lower arms may not be altered, except as permitted under
15.8.C, or relocated."

 

[Sam Strano]

There is this thing called an "I" class. I don't think this is smart. I want this. I think that's stupid. Well, trust me, there is never a shortage of folks wanting things, from little things to huge ones like aftermarket traction control systems. It's easy to say "you're an idiot and you should obviously do this" if you don't understand the big picture and how and why the rules are the way they are.

Let's look at what is legal in both STX and ESP for a Mustang:

Different upper control arms

Bushings that contain no more metal vs. rubber/plastic/urethane than stock (keeps metal bushings out)

Sway bars front and rear

Spring rates and ride heights

Coil-over and weight jacker setups

Double and even triple adjustable shocks

Upgraded limited slips

In ESP as big a wheel and tire as you can fit (not so much in ST there is a limit there).
race seats

in ESP ANY clutch and flywheel

in ESP Long tube headers

any exhaust that exits behind the driver, and in ESP not even a requirement for converters.

Camber plates

Watts linkages provided they don't mount in some way that isn't facilitated by the rules. Currently alternate diff covers are not legal, that may change... but that serves another purpose (bearing support) and since these rules are meant to cover all cars in the category not just pander to solid axle cars you have to ask is it necessary????? It is if the only watts link you want to run mounts that way, but there are in fact others that mount in a way that requires no rule change.

That's not a small list of things you can do... far from complete too.

 

[fun4me]

I'm beggining to understand that the UMI relo's won't clear the Strano bar.

 

[phoenix335]

Yes, the really are not allowed... the rule you are reading is talking about the arms.

Try this out... 15.8.I.5 "The lower arms may not be altered, except as permitted under
15.8.C, or relocated."

The language is the same from the ST and SP sections. The above is from 14.8.G.5. I am just trying to understand the rules and since they may be interpreted differently by different people I was looking for a definitive answer. I wasn't planning on getting the brackets but want to know what the options are and the rules allow.