Worn out hubs/bearings

[sdunlap10]

After a hot weekend at Sebring, I think I have cooked my front wheel bearings. I noticed after the drive home that I have streaks of grease down the spokes of my front wheels that seems to be coming from the hubs, and there's a slight vibration from the front when I'm over 60mph. Does that sound like worn out hubs? This was my 4th track weekend over the past year and a half - I know these are a common wear item on our cars, but should I expect my hubs to wear out this quickly in the future?

Realistically I could probably get the bearings replaced under warranty, but I probably shouldn't do that since they were worn out on the track. I am going to order the M-1104-A front hubs w/ studs to replace what's on there now. Can I rebuild the old hubs that are on there now, or are they pretty much trash now?

Thanks for your help guys. Also, since I'm new around here, I've included a photo of my car after a slight mishap at turn 17 back in April.

 

[Rehagen Racing]

Get the M-1104-A this week. They are going up about $50/set in another week.

We have them if you need them. Don't forget you'll need an open lug nut as well with the extended studs. The M-1012-G is the lug nut of choice and we have them in stock as well.

 

[modernbeat]

Get the M-1104-A this week. They are going up about $50/set in another week...

Those are the hubs with the ARP studs already installed. Highly recommended and a good deal over buying hubs and studs separately and pressing them in.

We run them on the Vorshlag car.

 

[lost won]

Thanks!

Don't know who is writing for Rehagen Racing, but we amateur wannabes really appreciate your timely help with the tips and informative posts!

You, too Jason; (and Terry). We can't BUY this kind of help.

You have all helped many more of us than you know enjoy the sport; keep up the good work! Best Regards to all of you.

John

P.S. Congratulations, Rehagen on Belle Isle! Fabulous victory.

 

[sdunlap10]

Thanks guys, I've got a new set of hubs on the way, and I am already using the open lug nuts.

Should I plan on replacing my hubs every year or so? I guess the abuse on the track combined with the heat in FL really shortens their life. Oddly enough my brakes have been holding up very well in the heat.

 

[Rehagen Racing]

Don't know who is writing for Rehagen Racing, but we amateur wannabes really appreciate your timely help with the tips and informative posts!

You, too Jason; (and Terry). We can't BUY this kind of help.

You have all helped many more of us than you know enjoy the sport; keep up the good work! Best Regards to all of you.

John

P.S. Congratulations, Rehagen on Belle Isle! Fabulous victory.

Thank you. We try to help out as much as possible.

 

[Rehagen Racing]

Thanks guys, I've got a new set of hubs on the way, and I am already using the open lug nuts.

Should I plan on replacing my hubs every year or so? I guess the abuse on the track combined with the heat in FL really shortens their life. Oddly enough my brakes have been holding up very well in the heat.

It really depends on how often you track the car and at what level. We have customers running the originals on their 2012 Boss 302S still, but some of our cars have been changed out already this season.

We consider it a wear item, and should be inspected every time you decide to go to the track (like brakes, etc). Typically a car that is regularly used on the track can justify a new set every year.

 

[Vorshlag-Fair]

Yea, the front hubs on an S197 are a wear item. They are well designed, and do not wear nearly as as bad as some other cars out there (4th gen F-bodies flat out EAT front hubs, as do NA/NB Miatas; these cars can sometimes only get 1-3 weekends on new hubs!). Check the bearings before each event... with the car in the air give the wheels a wiggle in/out at the top and bottom. If they have ANY noticeable wiggle, replace the bearing. They will also make noise when going bad, which should be easy to hear in all but the loudest of race cars. WHA-WHA-WHA-WHA! We keep a spare set in our trailer.

There's no easy fix for the rear studs... if you want to have matching long ARPs out back (and it is a different part number) you need to pull the axles and have the studs pressed in on a fairly tall press. But if you ever want to use a wheel spacer you have to use longer studs.



The Ford Motorsport hub kit above is great and includes the hubs w/ the long ARP studs installed. Even a +$50 it is still a better deal than buying the hubs then the ARPs and pressing them in.

One thing the Ford Motorsport hub kit is lacking, however, is the hub retaining nut. The part number is shown above, and it ain't cheap, but it MUST be replaced after each removal. It is a throw-away nut, and it takes 250 ft-lbs to torque, so you might need to borrow a bigger torque wrench to get it secured.

We're on our 4th set of front hubs (OEM set + 3 replacements) in 3 years of racing this car (approx 30 competition events a year). I think our wear rate is likely a bit higher than American Iron/GA cars due to the wider and grippier tires we use (315mm Hoosier A6 vs 275mm Toyos or Contis), plus that fact that that we run the car about 500 pounds heavier in TT3 trim than those cars. If they are seeing annual replacement, then guys with S197 Mustangs doing HPDE and autox on street tires will likely see even longer wear intervals, and heavier/grippier cars a bit shorter.

One thing we cannot stress enough is that FRONT BRAKE DUCTS HELP COOL THE FRONT HUBS. If you are going through front brake pads and rotors at a rapid rate you are also very likely generating some serious heat in the front wheel hubs... which the rotors bolt directly to. Front brake ducting not only extends front pad/rotor life, it extends front wheel hub life. Keep that in mind if you don't have front brake ducting yet.

edit: Jason brought up a good point when he read this. Even in the rearend, heat matters. After we switched from a clutch style diff (lots of friction/heat) to a Torsen diff we're seeing better wear and less heat related issues. We went from burning up rear axle seals, trashing clutch packs in the diff and boiling the rear axle fluid slinging it out willy nilly to .... none of that anymore. The fluid looks better, the Torsen T-2R is working better, and none of the seals are melting or leaking. All from less heat.

 

[Rehagen Racing]

Yea, the front hubs on an S197 are a wear item. They are well designed, and do not wear nearly as as bad as some other cars out there (4th gen F-bodies flat out EAT front hubs, as do NA/NB Miatas; these cars can sometimes only get 1-3 weekends on new hubs!). Check the bearings before each event... with the car in the air give the wheels a wiggle in/out at the top and bottom. If they have ANY noticeable wiggle, replace the bearing. They will also make noise when going bad, which should be easy to hear in all but the loudest of race cars. WHA-WHA-WHA-WHA! We keep a spare set in our trailer.

There's no easy fix for the rear studs... if you want to have matching long ARPs out back (and it is a different part number) you need to pull the axles and have the studs pressed in on a fairly tall press. But if you ever want to use a wheel spacer you have to use longer studs.



The Ford Motorsport hub kit above is great and includes the hubs w/ the long ARP studs installed. Even a +$50 it is still a better deal than buying the hubs then the ARPs and pressing them in.

One thing the Ford Motorsport hub kit is lacking, however, is the hub retaining nut. The part number is shown above, and it ain't cheap, but it MUST be replaced after each removal. It is a throw-away nut, and it takes 250 ft-lbs to torque, so you might need to borrow a bigger torque wrench to get it secured.

We're on our 4th set of front hubs (OEM set + 3 replacements) in 3 years of racing this car (approx 30 competition events a year). I think our wear rate is likely a bit higher than American Iron/GA cars due to the wider and grippier tires we use (315mm Hoosier A6 vs 275mm Toyos or Contis), plus that fact that that we run the car about 500 pounds heavier in TT3 trim than those cars. If they are seeing annual replacement, then guys with S197 Mustangs doing HPDE and autox on street tires will likely see even longer wear intervals, and heavier/grippier cars a bit shorter.

One thing we cannot stress enough is that FRONT BRAKE DUCTS HELP COOL THE FRONT HUBS. If you are going through front brake pads and rotors at a rapid rate you are also very likely generating some serious heat in the front wheel hubs... which the rotors bolt directly to. Front brake ducting not only extends front pad/rotor life, it extends front wheel hub life. Keep that in mind if you don't have front brake ducting yet.

edit: Jason brought up a good point when he read this. Even in the rearend, heat matters. After we switched from a clutch style diff (lots of friction/heat) to a Torsen diff we're seeing better wear and less heat related issues. We went from burning up rear axle seals, trashing clutch packs in the diff and boiling the rear axle fluid slinging it out willy nilly to .... none of that anymore. The fluid looks better, the Torsen T-2R is working better, and none of the seals are melting or leaking. All from less heat.

100% agree

Duct your front brakes if you have not done so yet. This helps everything up front last longer.

 

[sdunlap10]

Yep, the first thing I did to the car was brake ducts. Looks like it'll be a pain to change out the rear studs, I guess I'll be leaving those alone for now.

Thanks for the heads up about the torque specs, my wrench only goes up to 150 ft-lbs so I'll need to pick up another one. I think I'll add a spare set of hubs to my track stuff, to go along with the spare rotors/pads I already bring with me.

 

[Rehagen Racing]

Yep, the first thing I did to the car was brake ducts. Looks like it'll be a pain to change out the rear studs, I guess I'll be leaving those alone for now.

Thanks for the heads up about the torque specs, my wrench only goes up to 150 ft-lbs so I'll need to pick up another one. I think I'll add a spare set of hubs to my track stuff, to go along with the spare rotors/pads I already bring with me.

We sell almost as many hub sets at the track as we do brakes and rotors

 

[Philostang]

I didn't have to pull the rear axles when I put my rear ARP studs in. Just the usual shade-tree style "tap them out, pull them in w/a stack of washers."

EDIT: You know, it was a couple years ago, so I'm trying to recall what was special about the rear axles. I think I actually got a C-clamp to work them out w/a large socket at the back. Mmmm...memory failing now...getting old. I seem to recall to do it this way you cannot do all of them where they are, but there's an area in the back of the axle flange that is flat and gives you access. So all you need to do is rotate the hub for each stud to orient it in this spot and you're good to go.

 

[ArizonaGT]

I didn't have to pull the rear axles when I put my rear ARP studs in. Just the usual shade-tree style "tap them out, pull them in w/a stack of washers."

EDIT: You know, it was a couple years ago, so I'm trying to recall what was special about the rear axles. I think I actually got a C-clamp to work them out w/a large socket at the back. Mmmm...memory failing now...getting old. I seem to recall to do it this way you cannot do all of them where they are, but there's an area in the back of the axle flange that is flat and gives you access. So all you need to do is rotate the hub for each stud to orient it in this spot and you're good to go.

There's an opening in the back of the axle assembly on each side that lets you punch out the existing studs and insert new ones without removing the axles from the car.

I threaded on a sacrificial lugnut to each stud, positioned it to the aforementioned hole, then gave the stud a nice whack with a mini-sledge. They pop right out that way. Then suck the ARP studs in with some washers and an open-ended lug (or just use a regular Ford lug and it will "become" an open-ended lug) using an impact.

 

[dontlifttoshift]

A Lisle 22800 wheel stud installer makes easy work of the installation. I haven't changed the studs on a S197 but have done a lot of of other wheel studs with this tool and it is fantastic. It is a female conical seat with a bearing inserted on the backside.

 

[killr3v]

A Lisle 22800 wheel stud installer makes easy work of the installation. I haven't changed the studs on a S197 but have done a lot of of other wheel studs with this tool and it is fantastic. It is a female conical seat with a bearing inserted on the backside.

I'm getting this tool Friday. Thanks man!

 

[2013MustangGT]

One thing the Ford Motorsport hub kit is lacking, however, is the hub retaining nut. The part number is shown above, and it ain't cheap, but it MUST be replaced after each removal. It is a throw-away nut, and it takes 250 ft-lbs to torque, so you might need to borrow a bigger torque wrench to get it secured.

Just place an order for the hubs and I was adding the hub retaining nut to the order I was informed they come with the hub kit. Just a heads up.

 

[2008 V6]

M-1104-A
I've ordered twice - first kit included no nuts, second kit included nuts. We are wearing the bearings during track days & street with just street tires so far.
265 - 40 - 18 AD08s
275 RS-3s
9.5 x 18s
AD08s for us work far superior & as well as can be expected in the wet.
We will be up-grading to a 295 on an 11" square set up some time in the near future by modifying the axle. Unfortunately this car will only continue see track days & street for the foreseeable future.

 

[Vorshlag-Fair]

M-1104-A
I've ordered twice - first kit included no nuts, second kit included nuts. We are wearing the bearings during track days & street with just street tires so far.

Ah-ha! Glad you posted this, so that I can know I'm not crazy.

We've ordered this hub kit from Ford Racing a few times and it never came with the hub retaining nut, which is why I posted that part number and warning up. Maybe Ford changed the kit? I assumed they realized that selling the hubs w/o this special, one-time-use nut was encouraging people to re-use the old nut (bad).

So... the new hub kits might include the kit. Great idea, and if so, ignore my warning to buy them separately. Nothing to see here... move along.

 

[Rehagen Racing]

We just shipped a couple of these kits today, and they DID include the nut inside the box.

IIRC - It's been this way for awhile now.