The Great Oil Debate

[JEWC_Motorsports]

^ and what is this new oil?

 

[UnleashedBeast]

^ and what is this new oil?

That's what I was wondering....

but if I'd have to guess....it's going to be a synchromesh or a synthetic ATF.

 

[slvr08gt]

Its really hard for me to figure out my transmission issues after reading all these MT82 threads. My issue is completely the opposite from everyone elses.

In the mornings when my engine and tranny is cold, my tranny shifts smooth as butter in all gears. 10-15 minutes into my drive, my 1-2 shift starts getting notchy and then 5 minutes later it turns in to random 2nd gear lockouts.

I should note the 2nd gear lock outs only occur when shifting slowly in to the gear. If I speed the shift up, it USUALLY goes in without issues.

I dont even want to take it to the dealership because I know they will tell me couldnt replicate it BS.

Any ideas?

-Nick

 

[UnleashedBeast]

Its really hard for me to figure out my transmission issues after reading all these MT82 threads. My issue is completely the opposite from everyone elses.

In the mornings when my engine and tranny is cold, my tranny shifts smooth as butter in all gears. 10-15 minutes into my drive, my 1-2 shift starts getting notchy and then 5 minutes later it turns in to random 2nd gear lockouts.

I should note the 2nd gear lock outs only occur when shifting slowly in to the gear. If I speed the shift up, it USUALLY goes in without issues.

I dont even want to take it to the dealership because I know they will tell me couldnt replicate it BS.

Any ideas?

-Nick

Sounds like you have a lubricant that is too thin in your car. Maybe even the TSB fluid.

 

[JEWC_Motorsports]

Or still has the 1-2 skip shift lol

 

[slvr08gt]

Sounds like you have a lubricant that is too thin in your car. Maybe even the TSB fluid.

Changed to Amsoil MTG yesterday. It was way worse with the factory non TSB fluid. What fluid would you recommend? Im in Hawaii and temps never go below 65 F?

Or still has the 1-2 skip shift lol

Thats been diasabled for about 7K miles now, lol.

-Nick

 

[UnleashedBeast]

Changed to Amsoil MTG yesterday. It was way worse with the factory non TSB fluid. What fluid would you recommend? Im in Hawaii and temps never go below 65 F?

Tried an aftermarket shifter yet?

 

[slvr08gt]

Tried an aftermarket shifter yet?

Just uninstalled my Hurst and went back to the stock shifter. Thats when the shitty 1-2 shifts started. Funny thing is, it never did it before the Hurst......

Currently the 2-3-4-5-6 shifts are butter all the time cold or warm. Only complaint is the 2nd gear lock out when the fluid temp warms up.

-Nick

 

[UnleashedBeast]

Did the Hurst shifter have an improved rear mounting bracket included, or only the shifter handle and base?

 

[trakhoar]

Just uninstalled my Hurst and went back to the stock shifter. Thats when the shitty 1-2 shifts started. Funny thing is, it never did it before the Hurst......

Currently the 2-3-4-5-6 shifts are butter all the time cold or warm. Only complaint is the 2nd gear lock out when the fluid temp warms up.

-Nick

Sounds like that spacer mod to the shifter base might help in your case, that one seems to specifically target the 2nd gear lock out issues

 

[Falkinman]

Spacer mod? That's the first I've heard of that one.

 

[trakhoar]

Its burried in a thread on allfordmustangs. Basically if you specific issue is 2nd gear lock out, one guy added a few washers in between the shifter base and its mount..this gave the shifter a bit more space to fully engage second gear by slightly changing the linkage geometry

 

[Grimace427]

Spacer mod? That's the first I've heard of that one.

Its burried in a thread on allfordmustangs. Basically if you specific issue is 2nd gear lock out, one guy added a few washers in between the shifter base and its mount..this gave the shifter a bit more space to fully engage second gear by slightly changing the linkage geometry

http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/2510257-post.html

When you look at the shifter base from underneath you will see the mount with three bolts. Loosen all three and add a washer to the top 2 bolts. This will in effect tilt the shifter assembly slightly to the passenger side, and increase clearance for the shift lever to move to the 1-2 shift gate.

Post #115 is my writeup of sorts.
http://www.allfordmustangs.com/foru...82-locked-out-1st-2nd-during-left-turn-8.html

 

[trakhoar]

Thanks for the link Grimace.

 

[slvr08gt]

Thanks for the link also. I will be tring this spacer mod out in a couple hours and will report back with the results. Just to confirm, the washer go BEHIND the bracket correct??

Fingers crossed, lol.

-Nick

 

[Grimace427]

Thanks for the link also. I will be tring this spacer mod out in a couple hours and will report back with the results. Just to confirm, the washer go BEHIND the bracket correct??

Fingers crossed, lol.

-Nick

Yes the shim goes between the bracket and the lower shifter assembly.

 

[slvr08gt]

Thanks for the link also. I will be tring this spacer mod out in a couple hours and will report back with the results. Just to confirm, the washer go BEHIND the bracket correct??

Fingers crossed, lol.

-Nick

UPDATE:

Installed a M6 washer behind each upper bolt and took it on a 40 mile drive that contained a lot of stop and go since my issue was with second gear locking out during slow casual shifting.

OUTCOME: Second gear didin't lock out not once not matter how slow I shifted it. I will say it was slightly notchy a few times but hands down night and day better than what it has been the past week.

After the test drive I knew the washers fixed the issue without a doubt so I decided to re-install my Barton shifter bracket. Installed the Barton shifter bracket I took it for a 10 mile drive to see if it added any improvement.

OUTCOME: 99% butter smooth shifts in all gears at all speeds. I did have one slightly notchy 1-2 shift and thats why I gave it a 99% fixed rate. I think I can live with that

OVERALL: I would have to say I once again love my car. I went to the dealership today to possibly trade it in for an auto. That idea is now a memory.

Thanks for the heads up on the spacer mod

-Nick

 

[Kona-Blue-5.0]

Here some test data on BG Synchro shift ll http://www.kansasbg.com/Complete_Set_of_Spec_and_Tech/0792.pdf



john

 

[JAJ]

I have three theories on the MT-82 in the Mustang:

1. The shifter causes a lot of problems that people blame on the transmission.

2. Higher than normal levels of gear noise in the transmission is a vehicle NVH problem, not a transmission problem.

3. The transmission has particular needs for lubricants for it to perform properly.

I solved #1 with a MGW shifter. It works great and I have high hopes for my road-race track days, but I don't have any actual track time on it yet. At the track, and only at the track, my stock shifter would deny gears occasionally while braking hard and while unwinding out of a left turn at full throttle.

For #2, I came up with a theory on the noise issues over the last few months that I tested yesterday. My solution was to use a Dynamat work-alike called Hushmat that I applied to some key points on the shifter and the attachments between the shifter and the gearbox. Today, I have less NVH than stock by a large margin. It's remarkably quiet.

If you've read my previous posts, I've been working on #3 for a while by buying and testing different fluids. After facing up to my disappointment with the ultra-cool Motul Gear 300 ester-based racing gear oil, I installed one yesterday that has has the distinction of achieving a terrible internet reputation in a remarkably short time. What I got for my trouble was excellent shifting at 0 degrees C, and no degradation of shift quality as the gearbox warmed up. I assessed it over a 200 mile drive today on the highway and through miles of residential streets. It just works.

Now to the punchline: the gear oil that works best in my transmission is Motorcraft XT-11-QDC. It was my Charlie Brown candidate, and I bought it and installed it yesterday more or less on a whim. I only chose it because it was an obvious test that I hadn't done. I expected it to fail because everyone said it would fail. But it didn't; it shifts great at all the temperatures that I have to deal with and it's not noisy when it's hot.

For the moment, my testing program is complete with a successful result for me. I am sure there are people for whom QDC is not a solution, and for them I hope my previous test results are helpful. There are some good products out there.

Here's a summary of my conclusions:

1. some gearboxes are more sensitive to viscosity than others. Mine was very sensitive. At 0 celsius, it needs a gear oil with a V100 of less than 8 cSt. MTL and BG SS II were just a hair too thick and Motul Gear 300 and MC QS were a lot too thick. All the thicker oils shifted great when they warmed up but they were problematic when stone cold. For my needs, I wouldn't leave a car with that kind of shiftability problem lying around for my wife to figure out if one of the kids had a ruptured spleen and needed to be driven to the hospital on a frozen morning.

2. noise from the gearbox is only an annoyance, not a problem. There is a remarkably simple solution that takes about an hour and some Dynamat to apply. Noise is managed at that point. If you get good shifting and hate the noise, there's a solution. What's absolutely mind-boggling is that Ford respecified the transmission oil from QDC to QS in the dying moments of pre-launch testing to cure the gear noise issue when there was a simpler and cheaper solution staring them in the face!

3. even if the viscosity is right, the friction profile of the gear oil is critical to smooth shifting. That's why MTF LT2 didn't work - based on the chemical signature of the oil it's basically an ATF and not a synchromesh gear oil. Good oil, wrong friction. What's interesting about the thinner QDC oil and the thicker QS oil is that they have virtually identical additive signatures. Unleashedbeast actually published oil analysis that shows this in another thread. They're virtually the same synchromesh-style gear oil but made in two different viscosity ratings. QS worked well for me until the weather got cold. QDC works the same, but at lower temperatures.

 

[atistang]

2. noise from the gearbox is only an annoyance, not a problem. There is a remarkably simple solution that takes about an hour and some Dynamat to apply. Noise is managed at that point. If you get good shifting and hate the noise, there's a solution. What's absolutely mind-boggling is that Ford respecified the transmission oil from QDC to QS in the dying moments of pre-launch testing to cure the gear noise issue when there was a simpler and cheaper solution staring them in the face!

i think this is partially true

depends on the level of noise you are experiencing, a little bit of whine that can be heard with the radio off or down really low, i think that is gonna be somewhat normal for some of the boxes

but when its loud enough that you can clearly hear it, even with the radio up, that is probably a sign of a problem