Thoughts on Maximum Motorsports 2011+ Road & Track Box

[CobraRed]

roflmao

My office got a kick out of that!

We were thinking about making an infinitely adjustable PHR with a large threaded rod.

If it adjusts from a PHB to a LCA you know my details for the preorder.

 

[BLKSUNSHINE13]

Kelly,

Those are definitely really nice rear components and will more than likely take you up on them.

How do your handling springs compare to the MM r&t springs, and have you had issues running them with MM camber plates. Reason I ask is I'm having issues with Steeda sports and MM plates and am going to go a different direction with springs.

 

[BMR Tech]

Kelly,

Those are definitely really nice rear components and will more than likely take you up on them.

How do your handling springs compare to the MM r&t springs, and have you had issues running them with MM camber plates. Reason I ask is I'm having issues with Steeda sports and MM plates and am going to go a different direction with springs.

Interesting. Not sure why you are having issues?

I have sent many people to MM, and highly recommend Vorshlag - for the CC Plates. Those are the only two companies I recommend, and I have never heard of an issue with our springs and their components.

The difference in the springs is, the MM Springs are Progressive and ours are Linear. Their design is much stiffer.

MM Springs:
Front - 320-360 lb/in
Rear - 260-380 lb/in

BMR SP065:
Front - 240lb/in
Rear - 200lb/in

We also have a set of stiffer springs which are 260F/220R....but the fronts were designed around heavier corner weights, for the poweradder and GT500 guys. I have had a few Naturally Aspirated GT/Boss guys put them on, but I have yet to get pics of them.

I also have a few people who have done the 240F GT spring, and the 220R "gt500" spring - and they have reported excellent feedback.

Personally, I am not a fan of progressive rate springs. When I was doing the development of our new springs, I tested out some Progressive stuff and I just did not like them. Not sure what the general consensus is on this, but I just didn't feel comfortable pushing the car with progressive rates.

In a nutshell, the MM springs are a hell of a lot stiffer than our Handling springs. I am sure the majority would vote for the stiffer spring in this section....but our 240F spring with our 38mm front bar can definitely hold it's own.

 

[BLKSUNSHINE13]

Kelly

Yeah the issue I'm having isn't with the camber plates, its actually with the springs. the factory spring perches used with the camber plates when inserted into the top coil of the spring causes the camber plates to sit at roughly 20 degree angle relative to the strut shaft installed.

I've spent sometime talking to MM and we've come to the conclusion that the springs I have are wound incorrectly causing the issue, and is the reason for my interest in the MM r&t box components. Figured I couldn't go wrong with matching components in regards to assembly.

I appreciate all the advise I've received from you, as well as others thus far. I'm sure we'll be doing some business in the near future.

 

[BMR Tech]

Can you post pictures? I know exactly what you are talking about. Our springs are wound just a tad different than oem, but it's very comparable.

I can share pics when I get back in tomorrow of our springs and oem springs, with gt500 mounts sitting on each.

 

[BMR Tech]

I could actually go far into detail about this topic of spring windings.

Koni perches actually have a different angle than an oem perch.

When we designed our springs, we took that into consideration simply because the Koni dampers are likely the highest volume selling dampers.

So on that note, maybe I just opened up a can of worms and those springs you have may not be the culprit after all. Hmmmm.

 

[BLKSUNSHINE13]

I'll post some Pics a bit later, at the office right now.

 

[Mark Aubele]

Kelly

Yeah the issue I'm having isn't with the camber plates, its actually with the springs. the factory spring perches used with the camber plates when inserted into the top coil of the spring causes the camber plates to sit at roughly 20 degree angle relative to the strut shaft installed.

I've spent sometime talking to MM and we've come to the conclusion that the springs I have are wound incorrectly causing the issue, and is the reason for my interest in the MM r&t box components. Figured I couldn't go wrong with matching components in regards to assembly.

I appreciate all the advise I've received from you, as well as others thus far. I'm sure we'll be doing some business in the near future.

I was initially looking into MM's springs (which I believe are just H&R race springs) with Koni Yellows, but in the end I wanted rid of the factory upper spring "perch", and for what I do with the car (hillclimb/TT/some autocross) the springs are just too low for how soft they are.

I ended up staying with the OTS Konis, went with MMs camber plates (great quality) and a Ground Control coilover kit with custom rates, and Sam Strano's sway bars. This allowed me to have the rates I wanted and the desired conservative lowering (1" front ~1.4" rear).

 

[csamsh]

Yeah I ran bearing/bearing in my UCA and LCA's for a bit. Lots of NVH, especially when combined with a torsen t2r, but no clunking. The parts I used were all good stuff, and everything fit well. There is definitely a feel upgrade going bearing/bearing over bearing/bushing, as the double bearing setup, especially when the LCA's are also bearing/bearing, due to the virtual elimination of all bind and deflection in the rear axle control arm pickup points. Power on oversteer in my car was telepathic and easy as shit. It was also loud, and bearings are wear items. Not a good DD setup. GREAT for an autocross/track car though.

 

[B2B]

I ran with Koni Yellow + Steeda Sport spring for a while and it was a great combination for a comfortable street ride and light HPDE/auto-x use. As soon as I started pushing the car harder on track, the stockish spring rate just wasn't enough for me.

I briefly considered swapping in a set of MM R&T spring, which is the stiffest spring that I can find that fits the OEM struts. After talking with a few knowledgeable folks, I was convinced that the 320-360 lb/in is likely getting close to the maximum of what the Koni Yellows can handle, and I'm also not a fan of progressive springs. Not to mention 2" is a pretty big drop for a stock length strut and 360 lb/in is probably not high enough spring rate to keep the strut from bottoming out.

Definitely talk with a few different vendors (MM, Vorshlag, BMR, Strano, etc.) and decide for yourself which combination is a best match for how *you* plans to use the car.

 

[BLKSUNSHINE13]

Mark

Yeah not really thrilled with the factory bearing/spring perch myself. Seems like the weak link in the front suspension, I just cant justify coilovers. Just want my car to be a extremely good handling street car, which validates csamsh point against spherical bearings for daily driven suspension components. I'm on board with Kelly's advise of using bearing/bushing components to maintain streetability and will take that approach. Thank you both for your input.

 

[BLKSUNSHINE13]

B2B

I imagine you ended up with coilovers?

 

[Mark Aubele]

Mark

Yeah not really thrilled with the factory bearing/spring perch myself. Seems like the weak link in the front suspension, I just cant justify coilovers. Just want my car to be a extremely good handling street car, which validates csamsh point against spherical bearings for daily driven suspension components. I'm on board with Kelly's advise of using bearing/bushing components to maintain streetability and will take that approach. Thank you both for your input.

I think the coilover kit was like $400, not much more than lowering springs, and GC will give you whatever rates you want, I had an uncommon request and they had no issue giving me the rates I wanted at no additional cost.

 

[BLKSUNSHINE13]

Ok Mark I'll take a look, might be a good option. Thanks

 

[csamsh]

Mark

Yeah not really thrilled with the factory bearing/spring perch myself. Seems like the weak link in the front suspension, I just cant justify coilovers.

Then you want Vorshlag plates + stock spring top mount. Get rid of the rubber.

 

[BLKSUNSHINE13]

csamsh

I pulled the trigger on MM plates, there sitting on the work bench. would have preferred the Vorshlag plates but lead time was unknown when I wanted to make the purchase. If I'm not mistaken both sets use the factory bearing/spring perch?

 

[Mark Aubele]

csamsh

I pulled the trigger on MM plates, there sitting on the work bench. would have preferred the Vorshlag plates but lead time was unknown when I wanted to make the purchase. If I'm not mistaken both sets use the factory bearing/spring perch?

This was a question I couldn't get answered myself (when using GC coilover kit). Factory style springs, factory upper spring mounts. GC kit, they include the upper mount, which makes the kit worth it if for nothing else, plus you have height adjustability. If you want low, make sure you get 8" rear springs. I have 9" springs and I am out of lowering at ~1.4 or so.

 

[BLKSUNSHINE13]

csamsh

See what you mean, pictures worth a thousand words, so they say. Kicking myself in the ass now, for not waiting for a set. Thanks.

 

[BLKSUNSHINE13]

Can you post pictures? I know exactly what you are talking about. Our springs are wound just a tad different than oem, but it's very comparable.

I can share pics when I get back in tomorrow of our springs and oem springs, with gt500 mounts sitting on each.

Kelly,

For your viewing pleasure. Sorry about the crappy photos ,but let me know what you think.

 

[BMR Tech]

That is with the strut top nuts NOT tightened, correct?