Trying to figure out what's wrong. Need help!

[bpmurr]

As many of you know I got my GT500 back last Friday after getting the McLeod RST clutch and flywheel installed by my dealer. Shorty there after I started to hear a noise at low RPMs 1400-1700. I'm not sure if I would call it grinding or chatter but it's pretty noticable both inside and outside of the car. If you stay out of that RPM range the car seems fine. I don't feel any extra vibration on the clutch pedal or shifter. A friend of mine put it up on a lift and we checked it out last night. First of all he said the dealer did a crap job of reinstalling everything. They beat the floor up pretty good putting the trans back in. The drive shaft feels like it's got some play to it. I'm not sure if it's suppose to or not. Needless to say I'm pretty upset given I had the car in their for a month only for it to still have issues. Any thoughts out there?

 

[Boss281]

Without more information I'm leanding towards a driveshaft issue...have you had it up to speed (100+)?

 

[bpmurr]

Without more information I'm leanding towards a driveshaft issue...have you had it up to speed (100+)?

Not yet but I can try later. I'm not getting a vibration and the sound seems like it's coming from right under where the center stack is.

I took it back to the dealer for them to listen to today during my lunch. It only seems to happen in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gears. The tech said it might be the RST clutch vibrating. The OEM had springs in it while the RST doesn't he said. They are going to look at it next Thursday but in the meantime they said it's safe to drive. Just embarrassingly noisy since this tends to happen in parking lots and other areas with people around. I shouldn't have to keep the car over 2K+ all the time not to hear noises. The car sounds like a big old truck driving around.

 

[bpmurr]

I just talked with McLeod and they said it could be the clutch causing the noise. Ford does go out of their way to engineer the clutch to make minimal noise under heavy load. Basically I have to drive around it which would have been good to know prior to purchase.

 

[BSell]

Is it the clutch rattling or the gears in the tranny hammering into each other with the firing impulses from the engine?

The sole purpose of the springs in the clutch disk is to absorb the firing impulses from the individual cylinders at low rpms, preventing the mechanical hammering/gear rattle in the trans.

Porsche used to use a rubber center in the 911's to stop the tranny noises at low rpms. Too bad the rubber would get hard and brittle, eventually tearing and creating a hell of a racket from the two clutch pieces beating each other up. So they quit using the rubber centers...

If McLeod guarantees the clutch won't 'hammer' the gears during normal driving, that's cool. But I'd ask them if I'm off-base with this line of thinking.

Is it possible the stealer screwed up the install and left some shifter stuff loose/improperly positioned? A heat shield rubbing on the tranny?

Sorry this didn't end well for you,

Brian

 

[GrnBullitt08]

This is the first case Ive heard with negative results coming from a McLeod setup... I wouldn't think the clutch would be noisy.

 

[BSell]

This is the first case Ive heard with negative results coming from a McLeod setup... I wouldn't think the clutch would be noisy.

Hence my concern that the scrapes under the car mean the 'animals' at the dealership did something to the car, causing the noise vs the McLeod kit.

Now that I've thought about it a bit, the scrapes could be a sign they failed to align the disks properly and forced the input shaft in...which may mean bad things for the longevity/quietness of the clutch kit.

 

[bpmurr]

One thing that concerns me is the do smell something burning at times when I get out of the car. I want to make sure I wasn't burning up the clutch. Of course the dealer said I wasn't but who knows. At this point I almost want to wash my hands of this car and move onto something else.

 

[bpmurr]

Hence my concern that the scrapes under the car mean the 'animals' at the dealership did something to the car, causing the noise vs the McLeod kit.

Now that I've thought about it a bit, the scrapes could be a sign they failed to align the disks properly and forced the input shaft in...which may mean bad things for the longevity/quietness of the clutch kit.

Well the tech who did the install said it was banged up because the trans was difficult to take out and the McLeod went in easy. Right now they banged up the heat shields and tunnel the trans sits in. A bunch of dents and some seam sealer knocked off. My friend in the auto collision biz put it on a lift for me and was upset with what he saw. Had it been is shop he would have never let a car go out like that.

 

[BSell]

One thing that concerns me is the do smell something burning at times when I get out of the car. I want to make sure I wasn't burning up the clutch. Of course the dealer said I wasn't but who knows. At this point I almost want to wash my hands of this car and move onto something else.

How many miles have you put on the car since the swap? Is it possible the exhaust is burning off the oily residue from the mechanic's hands? Or maybe they had to spray the exhaust (and other) hardware with penetrating oil to get it off...

 

[bpmurr]

It's got 600 miles of mixed driving since the install. I could faintly smell a little something burning when it slipped into that range today. I'm trying my best to drive around it. I'm hoping that I can take it over to JJ at Woodbine Motorsports later today for him to listen and take a look.

 

[bpmurr]

I talked with Lee over at McLeod. He said that some of their units will make the noise like I'm describing. He gave me a few options.

1) To drive around it which isn't going to work for me. One of the biggest things I noticed between my 2005 GT and my 2010 GT500 is how quiet the driveline is. Which is a pretty big deal on a daily driver.

2) Put a sprung hub on the unit. However, I'd have to pull it, send it back, with no real idea as to how long the car will be down. I asked if he was interested in making a unit catered to NVH. However, at this time he said it didn't think he could cater to a niche market. I did tell him that with the 2010 and 2011 GT500 he'd find an ower base that would be interested in that. Most likely with a 2011 GT unit as well.

3) A refund

Right now I'm going to go the refund route. While I could tell both Lethal and McLeod weren't really happy with me. I do appreciate the fact that they stand by their product enough to give me a full refund on the parts. It's easy for any company to make a sale it's how they stand behind you during problems that sets the good companies apart. More then I can say for Ford who left me high and dry.

 

[BSell]

True enough, Ford left you high and dry.

That's cool that McLeod will accept a refund in this situation.

Who will do the swap? I'd love to see some shots of the dissassembly process...as the only reason for the burning smell with the noise (to me) is a contact issue (I'm thinking exhaust hitting something it shouldn't).

So back to square one, which clutch now McRoy?

 

[DraggnRoush]

You sure it's not just the sound of the clutch "breaking in" - my Roush P-51 clutch made sounds similar to the ones you describe, under low rpm clutch-slipping... it went away when I had maybe 1500 miles on the clutch. Now it feels totally different than it did just after the install... more progressive feel when slipping from a dead stop & more SOLID feeling grip when shifting during hard acceleration.

It may just need a little TIME.

 

[bpmurr]

True enough, Ford left you high and dry.

That's cool that McLeod will accept a refund in this situation.

Who will do the swap? I'd love to see some shots of the dissassembly process...as the only reason for the burning smell with the noise (to me) is a contact issue (I'm thinking exhaust hitting something it shouldn't).

So back to square one, which clutch now McRoy?

I'm going to take it over to JJ at Woodbine Motorsports today after work to have him listen. Based off of his options I might have him take it apart and review it prior to return. It's just good to know that I do have that option. I won't let it drag out though for all parties.

You sure it's not just the sound of the clutch "breaking in" - my Roush P-51 clutch made sounds similar to the ones you describe, under low rpm clutch-slipping... it went away when I had maybe 1500 miles on the clutch. Now it feels totally different than it did just after the install... more progressive feel when slipping from a dead stop & more SOLID feeling grip when shifting during hard acceleration.

It may just need a little TIME.

When you say low RPM clutch slipping. Do you mean you slipping it yourself? In my situation the clutch is fully engaged and my foot is off the pedal. Does the clutch slip by itself at low RPMs? Sorry I'm still learning about clutches. I put 600 miles of mixed driving on the unit.

 

[DraggnRoush]

When you say low RPM clutch slipping. Do you mean you slipping it yourself? In my situation the clutch is fully engaged and my foot is off the pedal. Does the clutch slip by itself at low RPMs? Sorry I'm still learning about clutches. I put 600 miles of mixed driving on the unit.

Yes, I mean when I was letting out the clutch from a dead stop... it didn't "slip" on it's own. The sound is like a "scraping" sound - which you would expect from two metal plates rubbing against each other. You may be going through the period where the two surfaces are "mating" to each other...

 

[19COBRA93]

IMore then I can say for Ford who left me high and dry.

Just curious as to how they left you high and dry? They installed an aftermarket part that is determined to have a problem with it. Where's Fords failure on this?

 

[cemetery gates]

Ha, you should take a ride in my car. My v6 has a tr3650 trans and spec stage 3+ clutch, lets just say it was very noisy!(at idle it sounds like I have marbles being tossed around) Its just the nature of the beast though, v6 harmonics with the 3650 and a heavy duty clutch is just a noisy combo(I also have Prothane motor mounts which don't help). What some(I didn't) tr3650 v6's have done is to have the flywheel and clutch precision balanced along with the clutch disk; this seems to cut down on the noise and maybe something you should look into. My car also does not like to be below 2k rpm in 2nd 3rd or 4th gear(sounds like a truck as you described). I have heard that gt500s have a similar problem with the noise. Also the noise have let up A LOT since I have some miles on the trans/clutch, for the first 1000 it was bad, but it has almost cut in half now that I have 3.5k miles on the combo. For the hell of it check your motor mounts to see if they are shot which would transfer more NVH into the cabin.

Hope this helps

 

[bpmurr]

Just curious as to how they left you high and dry? They installed an aftermarket part that is determined to have a problem with it. Where's Fords failure on this?

http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35823

That comment was in regard to the OEM clutch that failed hence why the RST was installed. Ford couldn't even get me a OEM replacement clutch in a months time.


Now back to the issue at hand.....

I took my car over to JJ at Woodbine Motorsports tonight. He drove the car and it made the noise for him. JJ didn't think that was normal aftermarket clutch noise by any means. He put it up on a lift and did the following.

-checked the transmission fluid and it was full
-checked to make sure things were tight
-looked in the bell housing with a fiber optic camera to see if anything stuck out but it seemed to be ok
-checked around the back of the engine bay to see if there was any issues
-as for the rough install he said that it wasn't too bad, it's hard to get these transmissions out without hitting the tunnel a little bit, in all honesty he probably would have dinged it up a little himself

He noticed that the shifter is really stiff when the car is on but not in motion. It was a struggle to get it into gear. However, in motion or when the car is off it shifts fine. The clutch pedal seemed fine to him and the clutch fully engages. Needless to say he is stumped and said to take it back to the dealer, so it's off to the dealer on Thursday to get torn down again...

 

[bpmurr]

Here is a video I made on the way to the gym tonight. It's a little muffled but you can still hear it. My HTC Evo seems to pick up all the background noise making it quieter then it is in person.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3B4Z6hzN5yE