What coil-overs should I buy? Poll inside

[ford20]

Inverting the shock is OK for a pure track toy, but I'd consider doing that a non-starter for cars that see year round DD use in addition to the track time. Especially anywhere in the snow belt.

Race cars and serious track toys get additional reinforcing and better and more frequent inspection than, say, cars whose owners installed coilovers strictly for bragging rights and the bling, called it done, and may never look down there again.


Norm

What kind of inspection are you doing on coilovers? Just looking for cracks on the springs, housing, mounting points, looking for some evidence of fluid going past the seals?

 

[Norm Peterson]

If I had coilovers, I'd be looking structurally particularly for cracks/cracked paint/witness marks around the chassis side attachment points. For rod ended coilovers or shocks I'd expect to see things like that sooner than for bushing-mounted units (but either way with C/O's I'd have reinforced the area as part of the original installation).

I'm a little less concerned with C/O spring cracks than with cracks in big springs - they at least can't fall completely out of place / off the car.

Fluid leaks is something that even "regular" shock and struts are subject to, so you'd be checking for that.


Norm

 

[barbaro]

Are you even referring to the same post by Jack Hidley? I'm pretty sure he was talking about the OEM shock bracket on the axle housing...

That shock bracket on the axle housing doesn't break either. And Hidley made several unsupported suppositions. 1) putting spring over rear shock will negatively effect ride, 2) small swaybars are difficult to find and impractical 3) There is a performance disadvantage to true rear coilovers.

I do not believe in any of those statements are true.

 

[modernbeat]

When a company that has the choice to sell both coilovers and non-coilover rear suspension chooses NOT to sell the easier to make coilover version...

And the only companies that champion coilover rear suspension are the companies that only have rear coilovers and no other option...

Doubt all you want. Some of us have tested it.

 

[B2B]

That shock bracket on the axle housing doesn't break either.

You are aware that both Griggs and Cortex sells reinforced shock brackets for use with their coil-over right? It looks like you are the only one who believe the shock bracket won't break...

 

[barbaro]

Yes I know I have one. It aint breaking.

 

[barbaro]

And has one broken?

 

[barbaro]

When a company that has the choice to sell both coilovers and non-coilover rear suspension chooses NOT to sell the easier to make coilover version...

And the only companies that champion coilover rear suspension are the companies that only have rear coilovers and no other option...

Doubt all you want. Some of us have tested it.

That makes absolutely no sense at all. How do you figure no other option? Everyone has options modern beat. Cortex or Griggs could just as easily sell a shocked divorced from the spring like you do. Like Ford does. Contrary to your assertion, that would be easier. No brackets to design no nattering nabobs of negativism. They chose to go a different direction, and their results cant be argued with.

You say you tested? Well let's see the report. Let's see a full report on the vehicles involved, the drivers, the lap times,, the rubber, the temperature, the air pressure, etc ad infinitum. Tested my ass. You all dance around the issue because you know the shit is strong and it works. You have yet to show one failure despite spreading this propaganda all over the internet.

And now I am calling you out on your bullshit. I don't see any coilovers punching through the shock towers or tearing away from an axle bracket . All of you and the collective power of Google cannot show one example, not one. You have lost all credibility on this issue.

 

[Hotrodtinker]

 

[Pentalab]

When a company that has the choice to sell both coilovers and non-coilover rear suspension chooses NOT to sell the easier to make coilover version...

And the only companies that champion coilover rear suspension are the companies that only have rear coilovers and no other option...

Doubt all you want. Some of us have tested it.

Ok, so u don't sell coilovers..and they don't sell non coil overs.
So why don't you sell rear coil overs?? Was it durability, or performance, or price, or support /repair issues, or what?

On a similar note, has Vorshlag tested any of the S-550 cars with IRS ??
Apparently the rears can have as much as much as -2.7 deg of camber...right out of the box. I only got to test drive a 2015 for < 10 mins... but initial impressions are they have a winner vs my 2010 + watts link.

 

[Mark Aubele]

I just don't see the performance advantage outside of maybe a slightly better ride mounting the rear spring on the shock, seems mostly to me paying good money to solve a problem that doesn't exist, which is probably why MM and Vorshlag don't sell them, sort of like torque arms for these cars.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Uh-oh . . .


Norm

 

[csamsh]

oh he gone and done it now

 

[oldVOR]

Can't we all just get along?

 

[Pentalab]

I just don't see the performance advantage outside of maybe a slightly better ride mounting the rear spring on the shock, seems mostly to me paying good money to solve a problem that doesn't exist, which is probably why MM and Vorshlag don't sell them, sort of like torque arms for these cars.

If they are both priced similar, and the coil over's perform a bit better, it's a win. But you are probably correct. The real 'problem' is they don't have IRS. The fix for that of course is a new car. Then you get IRS + rear camber adjustment.

 

[kcbrown]

I just don't see the performance advantage outside of maybe a slightly better ride mounting the rear spring on the shock, seems mostly to me paying good money to solve a problem that doesn't exist, which is probably why MM and Vorshlag don't sell them, sort of like torque arms for these cars.

They're just another way of achieving roughly the same thing. But minor as the end result differences may be, they might still be there. Here, mounting the springs over the shocks in the rear allows you to run with a smaller rear bar in order to achieve the same roll resistance in the rear. That means you have less side to side crosstalk through the sway bar over single-wheel bumps.

It's a difference, small as it may be. Especially with a stick axle, I expect it's not much of a difference, but it's a difference nonetheless. It's probably dominated by other factors in real-world testing, such that only the most talented might see an improvement from it.

In the end, the solution of mounting the springs over the dampers in the rear is more of a "niche" approach than maintaining the stock locations, and I expect that's the primary reason Vorshlag and MM stuck with the stock locations -- not enough of a measurable gain to make the extra expense worth it.

Keep in mind that Filip Trojanek is a mechanical engineer by trade. It's likely he settled on the solution he did because it is in principle a more pure solution, and that will certainly appeal to the engineer in him. And since his primary target market appears to be the "no compromises" crowd, it makes some sense for him to go that direction.

Vorshlag and MM appear to be oriented a bit more towards the mainstream market, which of necessity means greater bang for the buck. They have products that overlap the market Cortex is targeting, but they sell to a more general audience as well. Because their markets are wider, they almost certainly have to account for that fact in their lineup. You don't see them offering things like SLA front suspension setups, or Penske or Ohlins dampers (for those who regard JRi dampers as cheap junk ), the way Cortex does, and I suspect it's because that market is too much of a niche market (not to mention that, for all I know, the MCS dampers may well achieve the same level of performance as the Penske or Ohlins dampers do). Conversely, you don't see Cortex offering any standard strut systems like Vorshlag's Bilstein StreetPro setup, because that's outside of Cortex's target market. Cortex appears to be going for more of a performance-without-compromise approach (their decision to locate their shop at Sonoma Raceway is consistent with that), which of necessity reduces the "bang for the buck" factor. And while they also seem to have some products that target a more mainstream market (their lowest end coilover system uses Koni dampers), that doesn't appear to be their focus.

Back to the question at hand: the location of the rear springs. If the performance difference between the two approaches were massive, I've no doubt that Vorshlag and MM would pursue the one Cortex is using. But if the difference is sufficiently minor, then going down that road just wouldn't be worth it for them -- it adds noticeable cost for what is likely a very small gain. After all, you can achieve the same roll stiffness in the rear, while maintaining the same bump stiffness, by using more rear bar.


I like that there are multiple solutions to the problem, and that one can choose where on the spectrum of price versus performance one wishes to be. I also like that simple people like myself can have immense fun with their cars without having to go crazy with suspension mods.

 

[Sky Render]

Good grief, people. Past a certain point, the "correct" solution is whatever makes YOUR car handle the way YOU want it to. Barbaro likes the way his car handles with a torque arm, Watts link, and rear coilovers. I like the way my car handles with rod-end panhard bar and 3-link.

Unless you're doing something sinful like slamming your car with no suspension travel, car setup at a certain level boils down to how your car feels to you.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 4 using Tapatalk

 

[Hotrodtinker]

Good grief, people. Past a certain point, the "correct" solution is whatever makes YOUR car handle the way YOU want it to. Barbaro likes the way his car handles with a torque arm, Watts link, and rear coilovers. I like the way my car handles with rod-end panhard bar and 3-link.

Unless you're doing something sinful like slamming your car with no suspension travel, car setup at a certain level boils down to how your car feels to you.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 4 using Tapatalk

X2 Vince! Very well said! I may give people a little bit of grief every now and again in jest but in the end if the vehicle is setup how YOU like it who gives a shit about what Joe or Bob likes?

 

[Hotrodtinker]

Except for ricers. Ricers deserve to be made fun of! Jk! Hahaha!!

 

[Mike Rousch]

Good grief, people. Past a certain point, the "correct" solution is whatever makes YOUR car handle the way YOU want it to. Barbaro likes the way his car handles with a torque arm, Watts link, and rear coilovers. I like the way my car handles with rod-end panhard bar and 3-link.

Unless you're doing something sinful like slamming your car with no suspension travel, car setup at a certain level boils down to how your car feels to you.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 4 using Tapatalk

I could not agree with this more. put some nice parts on the car and learn how to drive the dam thing. Stop trying to fix the wrong part of the car, Fix the nut behind the wheel first. I hated my set up at first, but after a year or so of learning the car I love it!