Fed Up with problems...

[BoostedGT480]

Getting towed away, AGAIN!!!!

So if it's not 1 thing it's another. Since I have put the new motor in I have always had a problem with a cold start. I pretty much have 1 shot at cranking it and if I fail, it gets too flooded and fouls the plugs. But of course when it runs then there are no issues.

So I took it to a shop that I use (Lee's Automotive) about 2 weeks ago. I take it there so I can get the car looked over to make sure I didnt miss anything and just get a 2nd opinion. They fixed my waterpump leak that I didn't know I had (seal messed up when I installed it), installed my BMR lca's, set the pinion angle, fixed my oil pan leak (pan was bent when I bought it from HLYWD), and some other things. Well, they confirmed everything was good except for the cold issue part. The guy knows alot about cars and hotrods so he knew it was a tune issue and he knew I have an appointment on the 28th of this month. He told me I don't need to drive it due to how bad it was. He said when they drained the oil it had over a quart of fuel in the oil. They put new oil in and told me to come get the car. I went to pick it up and of course can not crank it. We unplug both fuel modules and spray some brake cleaner in the intake tube and we manage to clean the plugs enough to get it to start once we plug the modules back in.

Well that was yesterday. I took the car to work since its my only vehicle now so I have to deal with it. I idled it high in the am and let it get really warm before I left for work. Went to leave work and I flooded it out again b/c I wasn't able to keep the rpm's high enough.

I've talked to the tuner and he said he may know what's going on b/c I told him what the A/F was doing and exactly what the car is doing. But for now, I'm not driving the car. I have arranged a ride to and from work b/c I will not drive this car until its running 100%. I have too much time and money into it to mess it up over something stupid.

I called my mechanic (Lee) and told him what was going on and told him I am going to leave my car downtown overnight and he said NO! He said stay where you are and I will come pick it up with my trailer (As pictured above he did just that). He wouldnt even let me pay him. I have so much respect for him it's unreal. In other posts I have mentioned using him to work on my car and only him and it's for this reason. He told me he is not going to allow me to leave my car downtown b/c of the possible risk of damage/theft overnight. So I stay put and he towed my car to his house which he will take to the shop tomorrow and take the plugs out and clean them. He has also volunteered to let me keep my car on the trailer and take the car to Birmingham (80 miles from me) to get tuned so I dont have to drive it. This way the tuner can hook up the computer and try to fix the problem.

So for right now I have no car. Constantly being down and worked on. It sucks to have this much time and money into something you can't just crank up and drive...Sorry for my rant.

Cliff notes - My car wont crank when cold and Lee from Lee's Automotive in Wetumpka, AL is the only person I will ever send my business too. lol

 

[AbdullaGT500]

Sorry to hear you're having so many problems. Who did your tuning? Mine had a similar problem with the turbo kit. If it didn't start the first time, it wouldn't start again unless I changed out the plugs and let the fuel air out.

 

[Mike K]

That sucks man. I hope it all gets worked out in the tune.

 

[TurboX]

Sorry about the problems, a fast car isn't always as easy as it looks. Sounds like you have a good friend/mechanic, those are hard to find.

My only question is, 1 quart of fuel in the oil ? That doesn't sound like a tune issue, you need to find out how that fuel is getting into the oil.

 

[b00stedgt]

I would like to know how the fuel is getting in the oil as well. I get a gas smell in my oil

 

[white05gt]

Hell, I have that same cold start problem on my car. I am currently working with a tuner trying to get it figured out but the weather hasn't been cooperating with me.

 

[Mach2burnout]

Too much fuel pressure!!

 

[klaw]

Check the harness connection and/or if necessary swap out the FRPS. I had this problem very briefly with my new build - fortunately I had a fuel pressure gauge and saw that it was jacking really high during the start. I checked/cleaned/reseated the harness connection and the problem has never returned. I'm guessing if the ECU doesn't see the FRPS signal it assumes that more fuel pressure is required and kicks the pumps in - on a returnless system, all that fuel has to go somewhere and that's right into the cylinders. This is not a situation you should play around with as the extra fuel will wash the oil film off the cylinder walls and ring/cylinder wear will be extreme. The gas gets into the oil by being pushed down past the rings (it's way less viscous than oil and can pass easier). Fuel in the oil will also thin it out and could lead to other engine wear and cam modulation issues.

This issue can also be more prevalent with Whipple cars & built motors. Many builders go with larger injectors and many are the longer style (typically about a half inch longer than the Whipple supplied injectors). The result is that the fuel rail sits higher and the FRPS sensor can come into contact with the underside of the Whipple intake tube. The clearances are very tight above the tube as well and it can often touch the underside of the hood. These clearances close up even more when the motor torques over under load. I've played around with a combination of parts for the last three years to ensure that the FRPS harness stays free of contact with the intake tube. Mechanical stress on the connection and the plastic FRPS sensor very likely isn't desireable (I lost sleep over the thought of a high pressure fuel leak on a running engine).

 

[ethic1]

man that sucks....Hope it all works out!

 

[BoostedGT480]

Sorry about the problems, a fast car isn't always as easy as it looks. Sounds like you have a good friend/mechanic, those are hard to find.

My only question is, 1 quart of fuel in the oil ? That doesn't sound like a tune issue, you need to find out how that fuel is getting into the oil.

Yes, very good mechanic and friend...We talk alot. He has a brand new camaro that has a fully built engine. about to put a sc on it and looking for 1k hp. He also has a bubble top impala and a bunch of other cool rides.

From being flooded out, oil is alot easier to get past the rings and into the oil. Its not uncommon for this to happen. And yes that is a ton to be in the oil. However, I didnt think it was THAT bad but I guess running that rich every morning will add up to alot of fuel.

I'm just ready for it to be tuned to see if that fixes the issue. Going with a totally different engine, cams, and every aspect of the engine, I would assume its tune related.

 

[BoostedGT480]

Sorry to hear you're having so many problems. Who did your tuning? Mine had a similar problem with the turbo kit. If it didn't start the first time, it wouldn't start again unless I changed out the plugs and let the fuel air out.

Its only on a start up tune now but Henson Performance is doing it. Very large Mustang and Shelby clientele and they also tuned SherrodMustang's car. They have tuned my past 3 cars too.

Can't blame them at all since its on a startup tune and hasnt been really tuned yet

 

[BruceH]

Who is your tuner? This has been covered before. The cold start fuel tables need to be leaned out. Just plugging in value files will result in cold start flooding. It has nothing to do with injectors or type of blower.

 

[BoostedGT480]

yea, i have consulted with my tuner which is Henson Performance in Birmingham, AL (Hueytown exactly)...We will fix the tune when I take it up there to have it dyno tuned on the 28th. I wont drive it until then.

 

[klaw]

It has nothing to do with injectors or type of blower.

In my case it was the harness connection. The Whipple intake tube interference problem is also well known - modifying the plastic tube with a heat gun is a common 'fix'.

 

[retfr8flyr]

You are lucky to have such a good mechanic/friend. You really do need to tow the car to the tuner, as cold start problems can only really be fixed with a fully cold engine. If you drove it there the tuner would be guessing on the cold table fixes.


Earl

 

[BruceH]

In my case it was the harness connection. The Whipple intake tube interference problem is also well known - modifying the plastic tube with a heat gun is a common 'fix'.

Did you use ev-6 length injectors? My whipple only acted up with a custom tune. Once I started using prp and comparing the custom tune to stock values the cold fuel table stuck out like a sore thumb. For some reason the value files are super rich for blown applications. This causes the motor to stumble until it's warmed up as even the standard fuel table is enriched for the lower coolant temps. There is a little more to it than that but it's the biggest error I've found that deals with cold starts.

OP I hope you get it sorted out. A tempermental car is no fun as you know.

 

[klaw]

Did you use ev-6 length injectors? My whipple only acted up with a custom tune. Once I started using prp and comparing the custom tune to stock values the cold fuel table stuck out like a sore thumb. For some reason the value files are super rich for blown applications. This causes the motor to stumble until it's warmed up as even the standard fuel table is enriched for the lower coolant temps. There is a little more to it than that but it's the biggest error I've found that deals with cold starts.

The 60lb/hr injectors I got prior to the build were the taller version and I didn't have time to find the shorter ones prior to my dyno session. I machined half inch standoffs for the rail hold-downs and modified the underside of my Whipple tube for the extra clearance required (note that I have MMR aftermarket rails that move the FPS sensor further back than the stock location. I had a custom startup tune from my tuner and the car started and ran fine during the initial break-in (he had already modified the cold start fueling tables). I trailered the car to the dyno (150mi) and we made some initial passes then ended for the day (I was late getting there). When we went to resume tuning the next day, the car wouldn't start and we noticed the fuel pressure jacking on my gauge. After checking, cleaning, reseating the harness the problem was resolved and never appeared again. I think as we started to load the engine more and more the first day, the motor was torquing over enough to lift the FPS sensor up against the intake tube (on end of which is mounted to the body of the car). You could see witness marks from the harness on the tube. The contact probably partially unseated the harness.

I was never really happy with the FPS clearance issues so went ahead and got a set of 60 lb/hr flow matched short style injectors and that's what's in the car now.

 

[waldogt07]

Damn man...sorry to hear that.....Henson is who tuned my car he is very good at what he does.......and I am taking it back to him next week probably or the week after to do some more tweaking on my car......I am having nitrous problems so we got to re-do some stuff....plus putting a bigger intake and stuff on it as well......I will have to ride over there when you bring your car up....you said it was on the 28th?? morning or afternoon???

 

[BruceH]

The 60lb/hr injectors I got prior to the build were the taller version and I didn't have time to find the shorter ones prior to my dyno session. I machined half inch standoffs for the rail hold-downs and modified the underside of my Whipple tube for the extra clearance required (note that I have MMR aftermarket rails that move the FPS sensor further back than the stock location. I had a custom startup tune from my tuner and the car started and ran fine during the initial break-in (he had already modified the cold start fueling tables). I trailered the car to the dyno (150mi) and we made some initial passes then ended for the day (I was late getting there). When we went to resume tuning the next day, the car wouldn't start and we noticed the fuel pressure jacking on my gauge. After checking, cleaning, reseating the harness the problem was resolved and never appeared again. I think as we started to load the engine more and more the first day, the motor was torquing over enough to lift the FPS sensor up against the intake tube (on end of which is mounted to the body of the car). You could see witness marks from the harness on the tube. The contact probably partially unseated the harness.

I was never really happy with the FPS clearance issues so went ahead and got a set of 60 lb/hr flow matched short style injectors and that's what's in the car now.

Getting off the subject now but just a short sidebar: How do you like the flow matched vs standard injectors? The flow matched 80 lb. ev-14's I had with the whipple were the best injectors I've ever had. Idle, tip in, overall driveablility was just fantastic compared to the GT500 injectors I had used prior.

The air intake was the only thing I didn't like on the Whipple. Always wondered why they didn't make the supercharger air inlet so it would work with a gt500 style of cai.

 

[klaw]

Getting off the subject now but just a short sidebar: How do you like the flow matched vs standard injectors? The flow matched 80 lb. ev-14's I had with the whipple were the best injectors I've ever had. Idle, tip in, overall driveablility was just fantastic compared to the GT500 injectors I had used prior.

The air intake was the only thing I didn't like on the Whipple. Always wondered why they didn't make the supercharger air inlet so it would work with a gt500 style of cai.

At the same time I swapped injectors I also swapped in a catless H for the catted X and swapped the stock TB for the FRPP billet twin. Picked up alot of HP likely due mostly to the TB - now at 630 RWHP. Driveability is about the same as before - pretty good given the 127550 cams. We're going to tweak the tune a bit more for driveability if winter ever ends.