Pirelli World Challenge: Mustang Parity Debate

[FR500GT]

conflict of interest much?

Seriously haha what the hell

 

[Mike K]

I seen on facebook last night that PAS one of the sponsors here is not sponsoring this series so we will see what happens.

 

[MyGG]

I realize it's a different series, but is this happening in the Continental Tire series and like you said GrandAm as well? Saw them at Indy a couple weeks back and especially in the GrandAm series, the one car that ran was by far the slowest on the track. Had to listen to people making fun of the Mustang all day saying how crappy it was and such.

 

[Pardue]

Been noticing this over the past 2 years with not only WC but Grand Am as well. You look at who is paying the bills and it's a sure bet that they will be in the winners circle in a couple of weeks. I mean seriously who the heck are they trying to fool when a Kia Optima is 1-2 in a field full of Mustangs and Camaros? Kia is a major sponsor so you can bet their car will be at the front and remember how slow the Kia Forte Koop was when it started in ST and now all of a sudden it's a front runner with no other development than rear gears. Chevy did it with the Camaro as well in Grand Am, that POS was always a field filler until they started popping up on the ad spots and all of a sudden they have this fantasy spoiler and less intake restriction yada yada yada. Ford isn't dumping money into either troubled series and that's why they are at the back of the pack. Ford has built a Mustang to fit within multiple class rules and be a top competitor for years and I have never heard of Ford being given anything in either series. It's always take take take and then when it's not competitive just ride it out until the next season. Heaven forbid a BMW doesn't make the podium and by the next round it will have some sort of adjustment to put it back on top. Instead of trying to make parity between all these cars how about they just take a body in white run a minimum weight with stock engine and suspension modifications. Add weight to the top 3 finishers and remove it as it evens out. This way the driver parity is equaled out as well. Until then I just delete the events from my dvr as soon as they pop up and catch the results on StangTV.

I am the parts manager at Kinetic Motorsports where the Optima's and Koup's you speak of are built. I can assure you the cars have way more development than rear gears. I am a Mustang lover and I have always been and always will be but you have to give credit where credit is due. These cars are highly developed and have highly skilled drivers. Just because we are factory backed/sponsored has nothing to do with us finishing 1st or 2nd.

 

[jymontoya]

Been noticing this over the past 2 years with not only WC but Grand Am as well. You look at who is paying the bills and it's a sure bet that they will be in the winners circle in a couple of weeks. I mean seriously who the heck are they trying to fool when a Kia Optima is 1-2 in a field full of Mustangs and Camaros? Kia is a major sponsor so you can bet their car will be at the front and remember how slow the Kia Forte Koop was when it started in ST and now all of a sudden it's a front runner with no other development than rear gears. Chevy did it with the Camaro as well in Grand Am, that POS was always a field filler until they started popping up on the ad spots and all of a sudden they have this fantasy spoiler and less intake restriction yada yada yada. Ford isn't dumping money into either troubled series and that's why they are at the back of the pack. Ford has built a Mustang to fit within multiple class rules and be a top competitor for years and I have never heard of Ford being given anything in either series. It's always take take take and then when it's not competitive just ride it out until the next season. Heaven forbid a BMW doesn't make the podium and by the next round it will have some sort of adjustment to put it back on top. Instead of trying to make parity between all these cars how about they just take a body in white run a minimum weight with stock engine and suspension modifications. Add weight to the top 3 finishers and remove it as it evens out. This way the driver parity is equaled out as well. Until then I just delete the events from my dvr as soon as they pop up and catch the results on StangTV.

I am the parts manager at Kinetic Motorsports where the Optima's and Koup's you speak of are built. I can assure you the cars have way more development than rear gears. I am a Mustang lover and I have always been and always will be but you have to give credit where credit is due. These cars are highly developed and have highly skilled drivers. Just because we are factory backed/sponsored has nothing to do with us finishing 1st or 2nd.

I've gotta stand up and SHOUT here... S197OnSpray, You sir, are an idiot!

I've spent a good bit of time at Kinetic Motorsports, and you clearly have no idea what a real Motorsports group does.

The Kinetic Kia's are fantastic cars with SOOOOO much more development than just gears... The team that builds these cars are F1 quality, meeting the stringent rules for the class. The drivers are first class with as much experience as anyone else on tour.

Again, S197OnSpray, You sir, are an idiot!

If you think that sponsorships buy podium spots, tell that to the teams working their ass off to finish mid pack. These are teams with plenty of money and sponsorships. If winning was as easy as writing a check, the series would be rich.

Sponsorships paid to the series are one of the biggest ways for the Manufacturers to get exposure to their racing programs. Companies like Kia and Mazda don't have the exposure from gay ass NASCAR, that FORD and GM do, so they focus on real road racing. That said, Ford Racing has done a fantastic job with it's contingency program to help grassroots teams.


This discussion should really only be about them adding more restriction to the restrictor plates. The field was pretty competitive before the new restriction came into play.

 

[fivelinkcobra]

From what I read..... the restrictor change was enforced 15 minutes prior to green, with cars on grid. Tuning is allowed for the 2012 season, but Ford has made it clear that messing with the ECU would result in being cut off from all support from Ford Racing.

Jim

 

[Kobie]

Here is a link, hope it works, to Wind Tunnel. It's labeled August 6th Extra Part 1. The mustang story starts about 4:30 into the video.

http://www.speedtv.com/programs/win...unnel-august-6th-extra-part-1-1773766556001/1

 

[jmauld]

Sponsorships paid to the series are one of the biggest ways for the Manufacturers to get exposure to their racing programs. Companies like Kia and Mazda don't have the exposure from gay ass NASCAR, that FORD and GM do, so they focus on real road racing. That said, Ford Racing has done a fantastic job with it's contingency program to help grassroots teams.


This discussion should really only be about them adding more restriction to the restrictor plates. The field was pretty competitive before the new restriction came into play.

Right...
Money could NEVER sway the rules. If they wanted REAL racing, they would remove any restrictions on any car and let the race teams work on development that matters and could actually be useful to others. Instead of this, build around an arbitrary ruleset BS that all race programs fall prey to.

They can't have a primary sponsor's car getting walked all over by a car from a manufacturer that isn't paying the bills. They know this, any "educated" spectator knows this and the manufacturers know this. THAT IS WHY KIA IS A SPONSOR.

 

[TW1NTRB0]

I've gotta stand up and SHOUT here... S197OnSpray, You sir, are an idiot!

I've spent a good bit of time at Kinetic Motorsports, and you clearly have no idea what a real Motorsports group does.

The Kinetic Kia's are fantastic cars with SOOOOO much more development than just gears... The team that builds these cars are F1 quality, meeting the stringent rules for the class. The drivers are first class with as much experience as anyone else on tour.

Again, S197OnSpray, You sir, are an idiot!

If you think that sponsorships buy podium spots, tell that to the teams working their ass off to finish mid pack. These are teams with plenty of money and sponsorships. If winning was as easy as writing a check, the series would be rich.

Sponsorships paid to the series are one of the biggest ways for the Manufacturers to get exposure to their racing programs. Companies like Kia and Mazda don't have the exposure from gay ass NASCAR, that FORD and GM do, so they focus on real road racing. That said, Ford Racing has done a fantastic job with it's contingency program to help grassroots teams.


This discussion should really only be about them adding more restriction to the restrictor plates. The field was pretty competitive before the new restriction came into play.

You won't say that shit to my face will you PUSS? Mad cause I speak the truth. F1 quality my ass, Kinetic is a joke hanging on the sack of the next big spender. That fucking comment right there goes to show you don't have any credibility in the sport and don't know jack shit! GTFO with that bullshit! You think any one of those cars is better than their competition that has spent countless dollars and years developing a proven platform whether it be the Civic or the Mustang? I guess those teams are just standing by watching while the Forte's and Optima's catch up and pass them along the way. Bullshit! the Mustang is the base for the series and the restrictions prove the other cars just can't keep up. THE MUSTANG PLATFORM IS BY FAR BETTER! PERIOD.! END OF STORY. Kia winning a race has not a MFing thing to do with their development, they caught up due to the fact that the other cars are being nerfed. Just because your grandmothers dick sucking pool boy got your bitch ass a pass to tour the Kinetic facility doesn't mean you know jack shit about politics in racing. Been going on for over 60+ years and just because your stupid ass thinks you know the janitor at Kinetic doesn't mean you know shit about what money exchanges hands behind closed doors. Point is proven time and time again that money pays for podiums, whether it be the teams money ie Chip Ganassi (DP), manufacturers money ie GM or you buy your way into the winners circle ie Peter Cunningham. Just like Cadillac's return to GT had them at the back of the pack with almost no development they were winning by the time the Cadillac sponsored race in Detroit took place, oh guess who won that event, I wonder? And since you can't fucking read I'll explain.. I never said those teams don't work hard but the fact is their job is made easier when they are given fantasy modifications and their competitors are restricted week after week. No one is going to turn down the help, but that doesn't change the fact that the best platform is being shit on. Maybe manufacturers should be held to what they bring to the table. It's no secret what the Mustang had to start the season. Funny how it's the base car for the series but has to be jacked to all fucking hell so the other manufacturers (who can't develop a competitive car for these series) can run at the front.


By the way I'll be at VIR Sunday morning the 11th 8:00 am until whenever testing a TAG kart, let's see you call me an idiot to my face dipshit. I'll be there, Red coyote Mustang stock Brembo wheels. You better bring more than your fucking internet to say that shit to my face motherfucker!

My apologies ahead of time mods but that MFer had it coming!

I am the parts manager at Kinetic Motorsports where the Optima's and Koup's you speak of are built. I can assure you the cars have way more development than rear gears. I am a Mustang lover and I have always been and always will be but you have to give credit where credit is due. These cars are highly developed and have highly skilled drivers. Just because we are factory backed/sponsored has nothing to do with us finishing 1st or 2nd.

Don't fool yourself, it has everything to do with your sponsorship! You finish at the front because the other cars are constantly restricted so teams like you who line your pockets with money from the first manufacturer who wants to get there name out there and win at all cost. Has nothing to do with hard work, if the civic is a better platform IT'S A BETTER PLATFORM! plain and simple. There's nothing you or Kia can do about that except pay the man to win! No one is racing Kia's at any grassroots level and being successful. The Kia's would be nowhere near the front if the other cars weren't nerfed. Get over it you win because the manufacturer who lined Kinetics pockets is also lining the pockets of the WC group. PERIOD!

 

[Grip]

S197OnSpray...I think I love you...no homo, for real.

 

[ArizonaGT]

Not that I don't enjoy the occasional potshot at NASCAR myself, but it should be noted that NASCAR owns Grand-Am.

conflict of interest much?

 

[Sky Render]

I love the internet commentary on jalopnik/autoblog about how there's no way a restrictor could cause overheating.

Armchair racing engineers.

That aside, it still blows my mind that PWC/SCCA imposes and enforces so strongly against the Mustang, to the point where they're obsolete (as Justin rightfully put), and breaking parts that otherwise last Grand Am teams a year or more (and are also restricted, but to a much more minor extent). Weight the cars if you have to but when a team loses 2 motors in 2 days, and at least 7 more report cooling issues, then at least admit that you've goofed.
...

Are the cooling issues caused by less air entering the engine and thus less cooling on every intake stroke?

 

[captdistraction]

Are the cooling issues caused by less air entering the engine and thus less cooling on every intake stroke?

the bottom half of the (now missing) press release discussed the reasons behind the cooling issues. a lot had to do with the MAF calibration and what the restrictor did to clean airflow over the unit.


Just watched the speedtv segment. If I was already mad as a competitor about the last minute changes and disastrous consequences to expensive hardware, I'd be infuriated after speaking with that guy.

 

[pcdrj]

Wow, read up on this last night. Tiger Racing lost two motors due to overheating as a result of having to use the new restrictor. Given the cost of the boss motors that's enough to end their season right there. This was the carnage llisted by Ford Racing:
* Tiger Racing: Two engine failures due to catastrophic engine over-temps
* JVK Motorsports: Elevated ECT
* Rehagen Racing: Exhaust Manifold blowout, cracking and extreme driver compartment heat.
* GSP Racing: Extreme Driver compartment hot enough to melt the rubber soles of driver's shoes.
* Autosports Development: Elevated ECT
* R & C Motorsports: Exhaust manifold failures

 

[Mike K]

S197OnSpray...I think I love you...no homo, for real.

X2

Wow, read up on this last night. Tiger Racing lost two motors due to overheating as a result of having to use the new restrictor. Given the cost of the boss motors that's enough to end their season right there. This was the carnage llisted by Ford Racing:
* Tiger Racing: Two engine failures due to catastrophic engine over-temps
* JVK Motorsports: Elevated ECT
* Rehagen Racing: Exhaust Manifold blowout, cracking and extreme driver compartment heat.
* GSP Racing: Extreme Driver compartment hot enough to melt the rubber soles of driver's shoes.
* Autosports Development: Elevated ECT
* R & C Motorsports: Exhaust manifold failures

That should be more than enough to change back to the way it should be. The other teams just aren't to the benchmark of the series so I would say back to the drawing boared for them.

 

[TheKurgan]

X2



That should be more than enough to change back to the way it should be. The other teams just aren't to the benchmark of the series so I would say back to the drawing boared for them.

Not good enough. Those cars have lost points by now due to the restrictors...effectively killing their hopes for the championship.

 

[jmauld]

I saw a response posted to this, where the organizers said that the mustangs were more powerful then the rest of the field, turned amoung the best in the field, but fell behind in braking. So, they did this to force the mustang teams to work on their brakes.

What a bunch of crap. If you want a spec class, then build a spec car. If you want real racing, remove the rules and let each car excel at what it does best...

 

[Mike K]

Not good enough. Those cars have lost points by now due to the restrictors...effectively killing their hopes for the championship.

True but with the restrictors in place how many teams are willing to risk motors and waste money to go out and not be competitive?

 

[weather man]

True but with the restrictors in place how many teams are willing to risk motors and waste money to go out and not be competitive?

Bingo! Thin out the Mustang field fast.

 

[lostsoul]

I never seen a mustang slaying Kia on or off the track.. haha