Coilover remote question

[Roadracer350]

The shocks and suspension that I have and helped build works and I actually do know how to do suspension especially bikes. I must be doing somthing right since i have 4 championships on bikes all on my own suspension. Just because I don't do things like you does not mean it is wrong nor does it give you or your friend the right to flame anyone or thread jack. The OP asked for help and he got it. He actually needs to "CALL REGAN RACING" to get it fixed insted of taking advice from ANYONE. This is my last post on this matter as to respect for the OP and not to thread jack.

 

[Department Of Boost]

The shocks and suspension that I have and helped build works and I actually do know how to do suspension especially bikes. I must be doing somthing right since i have 4 championships on bikes all on my own suspension. Just because I don't do things like you does not mean it is wrong nor does it give you or your friend the right to flame anyone or thread jack.

Then how do you explain your advice directly contradicting how a damper works?

This is not about opinion, or how one does things, this is effectively about math. And only an idiot argues with math.

And if you don't want to open yourself to being flamed go post somewhere else. This is the S197 FORUM!

 

[GT_350]

Pictures of Rear Coilover Remotes FR500S/Boss 302S

Here you go as requested.

First four pictures are of how they were mounted on the FR500S.

The next two are of a 2012 Boss 302S.

The last two are the holes in my Boss. I'll be installing my SACHS dampers next week.

I've got all four what are you doing for the front?

 

[Roadracer350]

Then how do you explain your advice directly contradicting how a damper works?

This is not about opinion, or how one does things, this is effectively about math. And only an idiot argues with math.

And if you don't want to open yourself to being flamed go post somewhere else. This is the S197 FORUM!

Dude you have bitched and moaned about EVERY post I have put up ever since I proved I could make those stupid plates that are on your car cheaper than you. WHO CARES. You want to try and flame me and piss me off. Go for it. I know how a shock works, I know how the shim stack works, compression, rebound, valve etc. Just because you think it's your way or the highway does not mean that's how everything has to be. Yea you have made some accomplishments in your career and you do a lot on mustangs and that's cool but just because you say somthing does not make it law. Yes this is S197 FORUM and that's why I became a member to learn more about mustangs from respected members like you. Your just like a democrat, you want everyone to have their own way of doing things and their own openion as long as its the same as yours and you approve it. Geeze dude drop it.

 

[Department Of Boost]

Dude you have bitched and moaned about EVERY post I have put up ever since I proved I could make those stupid plates that are on your car cheaper than you. WHO CARES. You want to try and flame me and piss me off. Go for it. I know how a shock works, I know how the shim stack works, compression, rebound, valve etc. Just because you think it's your way or the highway does not mean that's how everything has to be. Yea you have made some accomplishments in your career and you do a lot on mustangs and that's cool but just because you say somthing does not make it law. Yes this is S197 FORUM and that's why I became a member to learn more about mustangs from respected members like you. Your just like a democrat, you want everyone to have their own way of doing things and their own openion as long as its the same as yours and you approve it.

As usual you are playing your word games and deflecting from the actual point. You made an incorrect statement on how a damper works, period. There are no other factors. If you care to argue that point go for it. But you can't, so you default to your usual tactic of trying to change the subject. My wife argues the same way when backed into a corner.

Geeze dude drop it.

Ok, I'll drop it when you either explain how removing spring preload/removing the spring reduces the amount of gas pressure in the damper, or you admit you made an incorrect statement.

I'm guessing you will deflect instead.

 

[zeroescape]

Thanks GT350

Great Pictures.

I have the Griggs Racing Struts up front. No real feedback on them, havent got the car to the track yet.

 

[Roadracer350]

Fine. When i service a motorcycle rear shock (coil over) we write down the settings, back off all rebound, compression and preload, remove the spring to let the shock "relax" a bit before taking the charge and fluid out. I was taught that by taking the spring pressure and prelaod off of the shock it will ease up on the pressure some. That's the way I was taught and thats the way I do it. If its diffrent than the way you do it then so be it. If its wrong well it's always worked for me and the guy that taught me travels with the AMA and works for factory Ohlins. This is also the same thing the Traxion Dynamics tech showed me in WERA. No one is deflecting anything nor was I trying to. That was my opinion and again I said (for the 4th time) contact Regan Racing.

 

[Department Of Boost]

Fine. When i service a motorcycle rear shock (coil over) we write down the settings, back off all rebound, compression and preload, remove the spring to let the shock "relax" a bit before taking the charge and fluid out. I was taught that by taking the spring pressure and prelaod off of the shock it will ease up on the pressure some. That's the way I was taught and thats the way I do it. If its diffrent than the way you do it then so be it. If its wrong well it's always worked for me and the guy that taught me travels with the AMA and works for factory Ohlins. This is also the same thing the Traxion Dynamics tech showed me in WERA. No one is deflecting anything nor was I trying to. That was my opinion and again I said (for the 4th time) contact Regan Racing.

Bla, bla, bla, bla, an entire post deflecting.

I'll re-state, you either explain how removing spring preload/removing the spring reduces the amount of gas pressure in the damper, or you admit you made an incorrect statement.

 

[Roadracer350]

What else do you want? A picture book?

 

[Department Of Boost]

What else do you want? A picture book?

"Else" would imply you have given me something.....you have not. More of your word games.

What I would like is you to either explain how removing spring preload/removing the spring reduces the amount of gas pressure in the damper, or you admit you made an incorrect statement.

But you will avoid it at all costs.

 

[Roadracer350]

I explained myself in my earlier post. If that's not good enough for you then oh well. You want to be king of the suspensions and all mustangs then do be it. Maybe i should have explaned myself a little better in my first post. I AM ALWAYS WRONG YOU ARE ALWAYS RIGHT. Does this appease you oh mighty god of everything mustang

 

[Department Of Boost]

I explained myself in my earlier post. If that's not good enough for you then oh well. You want to be king of the suspensions and all mustangs then do be it. Maybe i should have explaned myself a little better in my first post. I AM ALWAYS WRONG YOU ARE ALWAYS RIGHT. Does this appease you oh mighty god of everything mustang

Bla, bla, bla, deflection, deflection, deflection.

I say again, what I would like is you to either explain how removing spring preload/removing the spring reduces the amount of gas pressure in the damper, or you admit you made an incorrect statement.

I can do this all day.

 

[steve13gt]

Seriously... Some people..

 

[hunterwiley]

Seriously... Some people..

Agreed....

I run the same Sachs on the rear of my racecar. Also from Dean at Rehagen. Only I picked mine up during his Thanksgiving Sale for $600 a pair.

 

[Vorshlag-Fair]

I'm writing this because I don't want anyone to get hurt. I don't like to get in the middle of flame wars but there is a LOT of confusion surrounding monotube shocks, and if I can interject something helpful and calming I will try. Both of you are correct, in this instance... you want to remove spring preload AND all internal N2 pressure before cracking open a monotube.

Fact: most Monotube shocks normally have anywhere from 180-300 psi of internal Nitrogen pressure, unlike twin tube shocks - where 15-30 psi is normal, if they have not been "degassed" (which is a gimmick only done when a shock rebuilder has no way of recharging them). We have worked with AST, Moton, MCS, Ohlins, Penske, JRI, Bilstein and a few others, but not all brands and models, of course. The spring preload has a little bearing on that internal pressure, so you will want to remove any spring preload off of the shock when discharging or servicing them. Obviously, or after the internal pressure is released, you would then push the hydraulic fluid out when the hose or fill valve is removed. Splooge!

If you are going to start "cracking open remote reservoir lines" you need to dump ALL of the N2 pressure, period. And then try to NOT let them leak any fluid when jacking with the remote lines. And likely replace any O-rings you touched. And have some way of recharging the Nitrogen when you are done, before ANY load is placed on them. 99.9% of you reading this should never be contemplating this. If I had a dollar for every time a customer screwed up their monotube shocks because they thought they could "work on them" I'd be a rich man, heh.

Best bet is to let a qualified shock rebuilder do all of this for you. Why? So you don't hurt yourself. I've seen what can happen when someone inexperienced with monotubes tries to "service" them. Bad things happen. If they are lucky the re-assembled shocks only get full of air pockets and/or the wrong amount of fluid goes back in, making them work for crap. But I've seen shock shafts go flying out of bodies when unscrewed/dissembled wrong, and heard about one noob at a certain shock factory who dug a deep furrow in his face after he "disassembled" a shock before discharging the Nitrogen pressure. The shaft came shooting up at very high speeds and cut him up badly, then stuck in the ceiling. An inch to the left and it would have gone through his head.

If in doubt about something on your expensive monotube shocks, DON'T TOUCH IT.

Cheers,

 

[Department Of Boost]

Fact: The spring preload has a little bearing on that internal pressure

That's bullpucky.

If it isn't you should have no problem explaining why. Roadracer350 couldn't.

 

[modernbeat]

FWIW, nothing effects the internal pressure of the damper except a change in internal volume or temperature.

As a damper is worked, it gets hotter and the pressure goes up.
The most common change in internal volume is when the damper is compressed and more of the shaft is introduced into the internal cavity. When that happens, the internal volume is reduced and the pressure goes up. The plot of this is an exponential curve. If you have a very small gas cavity, the curve is fairy quick. Larger cavities have relatively slower curves, but outside of desert racing, they are all relatively small. The best exploitation of this is the SCCA Stock (and now Street) class autocross shocks where you can create a gas spring in the shock that supplements the stock coil spring.

 

[Roadracer350]

That's bullpucky.

If it isn't you should have no problem explaining why. Roadracer350 couldn't.

So now your going to flame one of the best racers in the nation because you WANT to be right...

 

[Vorshlag-Fair]

I didn't explain that correctly at all... what I meant was if the shock is loaded with spring preload and then you crack open the hose (after dumping nitrogen first!!) it will push fluid out. That's what you are trying to avoid when you remove a remote reservoir hose - pushing fluid out.

Sorry if I muddied this debate further.

 

[Department Of Boost]

FWIW, nothing effects the internal pressure of the damper except a change in internal volume or temperature.

Exactly. So relaxing the spring preload or removing the spring will INCREASE internal gas pressure (especially on dampers with internal top out springs), not decrease it. The spring keeps the damper fully extended, which is when the least amount of shaft is “in” the body and therefore the least amount of volume/gas pressure.

So any form of statement that suggests that relaxing the spring decreases gas pressure is incorrect.