autox tires for 2014

[SilverMustangGT]

Well, are you?

Yes

 

[2013DIBGT]

Does anyone run the BF Rivals that can comment on how they work in the rain? Based on what I read at Tirerack about them it doesn't sound like they are great in that area but are they any better then the factory equipped Pirelli on the Brembo cars? If so, then I wouldn't have any concerns with using them on the street and plus they are one of the very few decent tires that come in 295x35x18 at a respectable price.

The Continental ExtremeContact DW seems to get a lot of good reviews but from what I can tell it seems to have a pretty weak sidewall on it which is a damn shame as the rest of the specs look good otherwise.

 

[03machme]

A little off topic but I notice anyone that runs slicks usually has the Hoosier A6s. I just got a set of wheels for track only use and was thinking about getting slicks instead of the RS3s just because I won’t have to worry about driving to and from the events on them or getting caught in rain. Now I have been looking at the Hoosier and possibly the Hankook Ventus Z214 and Toyo Proxes RR. Now the Hoosiers are about $100 more per tire than the other two and I am wondering if they are really worth the extra $400 for the set compared to the other two. Now just to be clear I am not competing to try and win any national events or money or anything like that I just do it for fun and trying to get the most fun out the tires as possible without spending too much. Does anyone have experience with either the Hankook or Toyos and know if they are worth it or to just shell out the extra for the Hoosiers.

the Toyos
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Toyo&tireModel=Proxes+RR

The Hankooks
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Hankook&tireModel=Ventus+Z214

 

[SoundGuyDave]

If you're looking for a fun, "trackday" tire, then I would pass on the A6, but take a serious look at the R6 from Hoosier. It'll take a lap or so to really come in (up to temps and pressures), but after that, they wear like iron. The A6, which is listed as an autocross compound, is essentially up to par the instant you pull off grid, but they grease up after a hot lap or two, and wear very quickly. Ultimately, the A6 is a second or two faster than the R6, assuming a pure clear track with no traffic, but I don't think it's well suited to extended lapping sessions.

FWIW, I run R6 in 3hr+ endurance races, and they more than just survive. I took a sticker set up to Road America (punishing on the L/F!), ran two 20 minute sessions on a practice day, then ran practice, quals, and two 40-minute sprint races on Saturday, quals and a sprint race on Sunday, and then a 3hr enduro on Sunday. With 30 minutes to go in the Enduro, I finally got down to the cords on the outside edge of the left-front.

I haven't used the Hankooks, but I have run Toyo RRs (although on a 944SPEC car, not a Mustang), and found them...okay. I can't comment on longevity, but the grip levels weren't spectacular. They were better than a shaved RA-1 or an R888, but not dramatically so.

I would stick with the Hoosiers. You'll quickly learn why the call it "purple crack."

 

[03machme]

Thanks for the info. The R6 seems to run about the same price as the A6. I'm looking to see if there is an option that is a little cheaper but will still make me happy as far as grip goes.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk

 

[csamsh]

I wouldn't autox R6's...you'll just make yourself mad trying to heat them up. This was my experience with BFG R1's, unless it's 100 degrees out.

I'm seriously looking at BFG R1-S for next year, they apparently last longer than an A6 and give good cold-warm grip, and there are a couple ok sizes.

Incidentally, what size are you looking for? The Z214 C91 compound (275/35/18??) is pretty sticky.

 

[SoundGuyDave]

I wouldn't autox R6's...you'll just make yourself mad trying to heat them up. This was my experience with BFG R1's, unless it's 100 degrees out.

I'm seriously looking at BFG R1-S for next year, they apparently last longer than an A6 and give good cold-warm grip, and there are a couple ok sizes.

Incidentally, what size are you looking for? The Z214 C91 compound (275/35/18??) is pretty sticky.

Oh, was he talking about autocross use? He mentioned "track" and I just sort of assumed....

 

[csamsh]

Oh, was he talking about autocross use? He mentioned "track" and I just sort of assumed....

ah well now that I actually read his post, you're right. The title of the thread is "autox tires" though so I started assuming...

 

[03machme]

It will be mostly autocross but maybe a actual track day or two if I can manage it. And yes 275 35 18 is the size I'm looking for

Sent from my SM-T210R using Tapatalk 4

 

[Mountain]

Does anyone run the BF Rivals that can comment on how they work in the rain? Based on what I read at Tirerack about them it doesn't sound like they are great in that area but are they any better then the factory equipped Pirelli on the Brembo cars? If so, then I wouldn't have any concerns with using them on the street and plus they are one of the very few decent tires that come in 295x35x18 at a respectable price.

The Continental ExtremeContact DW seems to get a lot of good reviews but from what I can tell it seems to have a pretty weak sidewall on it which is a damn shame as the rest of the specs look good otherwise.

They are better than the Pirelli P-Zeros in my opinion. I drove my buddy's car with them in the rain on the street (city and highway driving) for a few days (we switched cars). We also had a rainy autocross this year and my buddy and another friend (co-driving) had just as good an experience as I did with my RE-11's. I had P-Zeros for a season as my daily/stock-class-autocross tire. I am doing either Rivals, RS3 (which ever I can get a better deal on) or slicks next season.

 

[SoundGuyDave]

It will be mostly autocross but maybe a actual track day or two if I can manage it. And yes 275 35 18 is the size I'm looking for

Sent from my SM-T210R using Tapatalk 4

Annnddddd we hit that point where the needs of the two disciplines are in polar opposition. For autocross (I believe), you want an uber-sticky tire right out of the gate, so look at the A6, the 'kooks, etc. For the track, you want a tire that will last longer than a couple minutes before it starts getting greasy and coming apart. The track tire won't get warm for autocross use, and the autocross tire won't last for track use. So there! ;-)

 

[csamsh]

Annnddddd we hit that point where the needs of the two disciplines are in polar opposition. For autocross (I believe), you want an uber-sticky tire right out of the gate, so look at the A6, the 'kooks, etc. For the track, you want a tire that will last longer than a couple minutes before it starts getting greasy and coming apart. The track tire won't get warm for autocross use, and the autocross tire won't last for track use. So there! ;-)

Yup all of this. Just get good street tires and do both is what I'd do.

 

[03machme]

Yup all of this. Just get good street tires and do both is what I'd do.

Annnddddd we hit that point where the needs of the two disciplines are in polar opposition. For autocross (I believe), you want an uber-sticky tire right out of the gate, so look at the A6, the 'kooks, etc. For the track, you want a tire that will last longer than a couple minutes before it starts getting greasy and coming apart. The track tire won't get warm for autocross use, and the autocross tire won't last for track use. So there! ;-)

OK I will also be need in new "street" tires soon for my everyday wheels. What if I get some slicks for autocross and some RS3 tires for the "street" wheels and use them if I do a track day? My car is not a dd so I'm not worried about wearing out the RS3 too fast. Would that be a good idea?

Sent from my SM-T210R using Tapatalk 4

 

[csamsh]

OK I will also be need in new "street" tires soon for my everyday wheels. What if I get some slicks for autocross and some RS3 tires for the "street" wheels and use them if I do a track day? My car is not a dd so I'm not worried about wearing out the RS3 too fast. Would that be a good idea?

Sent from my SM-T210R using Tapatalk 4

sounds good to me! I do a similar thing with my wheels/tires

 

[sholzer]

+1 to sounding like a good plan!

I just picked up a set of 19x9.5 with 275/40 fallen fk452 (decent summer tire at best, but its a summer tire with plenty of tread left) on a trade for my OEM wheels so I'm going to run around on these and maybe do an Evo School and track day on them this upcoming season (if not the whole autos season if I don't end up picking up another set of wheels/tires for autos use)

 

[Vorshlag-Fair]

As many have stated, the tire requirement differences in track use vs autocross use are numerous. What may be great at one might suck for the other. There are so many factors involved it is hard to write them all down here without boring many of you to death.

If you are sticking with street tires then it gets easier. But you still have to look at your wheel size restrictions (class rules like STU), if any, and tire's effect on gearing (tire height) for autocross use.

As Sam and others have said, lowering the CG with tire height is usually a win (free CG lowering) as long as you can live with the gearing changes. That's when a relatively short 275/35/18 or 285/30/18 tire (both being super short) can help handling. But then you gotta watch what it does to your gearing, especially in an autocross environment. The super short 25.0" tall tires also look pretty strange on the S197 Mustang at stock ride heights. Massive fender gap, if that matters to you (see below). This only matters if it is a dual purpose set-up (street/autox), as "looks" don't mean anything to the timers.

For autocrossing in a 2011-14 GT 6-spd car with the Getrag, you gotta do everything you can to make 2nd gear last longer, and that means switch to 3.31 gears (if allowed) and go with the tallest tire you can find that meets your other needs. For building around STU class a 285/35/18 is your best bet (max tire width, tallest height available) and the Hankook RS-3 is your only choice in this size. Everything else is shorter (275/35/18 or 285/30/18) or too tide (295/35/18) to use on the common 18x10" wide wheel. Another good street tire choice is a 275/40/18, for which there are a few choices. When we ran in STX (265mm limit) we found time just from switching from a 265/35/18 to a 265/40/18, just in the gearing alone (softening the torque hit on the tires and lengthening the range of 2nd gear).

Like with anything there can be too much of a good thing. The 285/40/18 we tested with looked funky and had an awful lot of sidewall and added CG height. I would try to stick within 25.5-27.0" tall tires for the S197s size.

We did a back to back track test on a 295/40/18 vs a 315/30/18 (which we normally use) and the feel differences was huge, not to mention the time difference massively favored the shorter (and wider and stickier A6) 315.

What is weird is that we've found that the Hoosier A6 works best on our TT3 Mustang for Time Trial use and for autocross use. Its one of those rare instances where we can use the same tire for these very different sports. But ideally I'd have a much wider tire on the car, and cut the rear fenders to fit the 345/35/18 rear. This rear tire has the most width available from Hoosier and the nearly 27" height makes 2nd gear last even longer (esp. when you crank up the rev limit to 7800 rpm!).

We found the practical limit on the rear of an S197 without cutting fenders or poking out past the sheet metal is a 315mm tire. And for R-compound tires that left us with to choices: Kumho V710 in 315/35/18 and Hoosier 315/30/18 in R6 or A6.

I really liked the Kumho V710 (although there are very few sizes available in this tire), for both autocross and track use, and the extra tire height really helped in autocross. Sadly they had no tire contingency in NASA or SCCA last year, which hurts the pocketbook. Hoosier has excellent tire contingencies in both series, and we found the A6 to be a faster tire, too. So we went Hoosier A6 all year and won a lot of tires. Next year BFGoodrich might finally have some NASA TT contingencies, and they won some TT classes nationally even without that incentive, so we will look at the R1 and R1-S for 2014. Who knows?

Remember: tire size availability and gearing changes can often limit your ultimate tire choices more then the brand or compound choice, but there are many other factors that go into the critical decision of "Tires" for a competition tire. For a fun "jack of all trades" tire, just get the 285/35/18 Hankook. My BFG Rival tire review article has been read over 9000 times, and there's some good data in there, but it isn't gospel - there were only so many tire compounds to drive on at this event (but the Rival felt the best and wore the best on the 3000+ pound cars). We do have a set of 295/35/18 Rivals coming for a customer's car that I can't wait to try out, this week. That's going on an 18x10.5" wheel and a 2700 pound RWD V8 track car.

Last but not least: the GRM tire tests are constantly flawed by (one person's) a decision to only test with tiny, lightweight cars like Honda CRXs and Miatas. The same brand and model tires are built and perform differently in the larger sizes (often with different compounds) and heavy, powerful cars like Mustangs have vastly different tire requirements than sub 2000 pound flyweights. I'd view those tire tests with a HUGE grain of salt... Love GRM guys, but those itty-bitty car tire tests ignore 75% of the cars that autocrossers use.

Cheers,

 

[03machme]

Terry, have you ever tried the hankook z214? I think I'm going with those in a 275 35 18 for my 18x9 autocross wheels. Then get the rs3 for my street wheels and use them if I ever do road course stuff. I already have 3.31 gears so I'm not worried about the short tire

Sent from my SM-T210R using Tapatalk 4

 

[Vorshlag-Fair]

Terry, have you ever tried the hankook z214? I think I'm going with those in a 275 35 18 for my 18x9 autocross wheels. Then get the rs3 for my street wheels and use them if I ever do road course stuff. I already have 3.31 gears so I'm not worried about the short tire

We tried a Hankook R-compound DOT race tire once.... once. This was in the 2008 GRM UTCC event at Buttonwillow in our BMW E36 LS1 track car. Hankook was the title sponsor so we bought a brand new set of Hankook Z212 (?) tires (275/40/10 and 315/35/17). They were.... not fast. We were getting killed on track at this event, fighting for grip. Halfway through the last day there we slapped on two of the old Hoosiers we brought with us, just on the rear, and dropped 2 seconds. On just two scrubs.

So that little test taught me that, at least in 2008, Hankook didn't have a serious 1st tier R-compound tire suitable for competition. We later switched to Kumho V710s (above) and then to Hoosier on this car and it was consistently faster. But that wasn't a ton of experience, and it wasn't the Z214.

Maybe the Hankook R-compounds are faster now, as I know there have been compound changes since my experiences in 2008. I like the Hankook RS-3 as an all-around, inexpensive street/track/autocross tire, so maybe... if the price is right... why not? If you are competing in any way, there are better options, but for a fun HPDE tire, why not?

Cheers,

 

[03machme]

Exactly this is just for fun as I do not expect to win any money doing this. The hankook are about $140 cheaper a tire so I think I'll give the new ones a shot.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk

 

[csamsh]

Exactly this is just for fun as I do not expect to win any money doing this. The hankook are about $140 cheaper a tire so I think I'll give the new ones a shot.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk

I have some 275/35/18 BFG R1's you can have for really cheap. Like $150 for all of them cheap. They are NOT good autox tires but they'll introduce you to R-comps. They have probably 80% tread on them.

Also, look for a pm about another good place to get scrub r-comps.