TPMS in your track wheels?

[Nutter281]

For those with a second set of track wheels/tires that are only subbed in for a weekend event, do you pay the $200 for sensors in your race wheels and then recalibrate everytime you swap wheels or just ignore the dash light during the event? There aren't any other nannies tied to tpms are there? Like TCS or something dumb?

Austin

 

[ddd4114]

I wouldn't bother with TPMS sensors especially since you will (or at least should) be checking your tire pressures after each session.

Even if the TPMS light turns on, ABS, traction control, and stability control still work.

Also, when I swapped between wheels with TPMS sensors already installed, my car automatically synced with them after a few miles. I'm not sure if that works with S197's before 2010, but I didn't have to do anything special with my 2011.

 

[Apex50]

Have never used the sensors in the track wheels, never had any problems with any other nanny.


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[Norm Peterson]

For those with a second set of track wheels/tires that are only subbed in for a weekend event, do you pay the $200 for sensors in your race wheels and then recalibrate everytime you swap wheels

No. After you've had to replace a couple that were broken during track tire replacement jobs, you could have paid for one of the new tires instead.

There aren't any other nannies tied to tpms are there? Like TCS or something dumb?

None that I know of yet. But through your track time sessions you should be developing your own driving to the point where you no longer need at least the TCS. At least for your track time.

Can't speak to the AdvanceTrak, as my '08 doesn't have that one. But I've never needed any of my cars to have it either.


About the little light in the dash - for a track car, or maybe only for your dual-purpose car's track time . . . black tape. You won't even see that after a while.


Norm

 

[CobraRed]

Doesn't leaving any form of TCS on eventually nuke one of the rear calipers or axle seak or something from overuse?

Don't know why you'd ever leave TCS on at the track, that's pretty much the purpose of going to the track.

 

[TGR96]

Doesn't leaving any form of TCS on eventually nuke one of the rear calipers or axle seak or something from overuse?

YES it does! I found this out the hard way at NCM last year. Blew an axle seal and leaked gear oil all over the inside of the rear wheels. Luckily it was after the last session of the day and I didn't miss any track time, but had it happened early in the day, I would have had to call it an early day for fear of leaking more fluid on the track/my tires. Prior to this, I only had one or two days of track time and a handful of autox's on the car, so I guess it's safe to say the seals won't last more than 2 or 3 track days with the TCS/Advacetrac turned on.

After that, I learned to drive without the nannies.

 

[Sky Render]

I don't use TPMS sensors on my track wheels. It doesn't interfere with any system; you just have an annoying light on your dash.

 

[CobraRed]

From a design standpoint, why does not having TPMS sensors even give you a warning light on your dash?

It should list your tire pressures on a little read out by ambient temperature and just say "N/A" when it isnt hoked up to TPMS. Not knowing the tire pressures is not an issue worth a warning.

 

[Speedboosted]

From a design standpoint, why does not having TPMS sensors even give you a warning light on your dash?

It should list your tire pressures on a little read out by ambient temperature and just say "N/A" when it isnt hoked up to TPMS. Not knowing the tire pressures is not an issue worth a warning.

I agree with this so much. My friend's Hellcat has the readout in the dash that tells him the actual pressure, so much more useful then this stupid shit we have

 

[Norm Peterson]

From a design standpoint, why does not having TPMS sensors even give you a warning light on your dash?

It should list your tire pressures on a little read out by ambient temperature and just say "N/A" when it isnt hoked up to TPMS. Not knowing the tire pressures is not an issue worth a warning.

It's a legal requirement for there to be some sort of notification to the driver that the system is non-functional for any reason.

Apparently, a warning light (we used to call those things "idiot lights" back in the day when they were only used to report charging system and oil pressure faults) is still considered the best method overall, so that's the way the TPMS legal mumbo-jumbo was written.

There might be some tuning benefit to be had from TPMS if the TPMS data could be datalogged. But for TPMS's stated purpose you're likely to be aware of a tire pressure problem on the track before you'd have a clear opportunity to look for an illuminated lamp or other display down in the instrument panel. You wouldn't need to know which tire was involved either, since you'd be pitting regardless.


Norm

 

[Nutter281]

Right on guys, thanks for the feedback! I couldn't give a wooden nickel about a dash light, just wanted to confirm it wasn't linked to anything else I do care about....

On the topic of turning TCS off - I have certainly read that in multiple places but I also have HPDE instructors who are pretty paranoid about me turning it off. I'd like to learn to drive without it before I am so dependent upon it that I can't live without it. Should I just tell instructor to cram it or bite my tongue until solo approved?

Austin

 

[CobraRed]

Right on guys, thanks for the feedback! I couldn't give a wooden nickel about a dash light, just wanted to confirm it wasn't linked to anything else I do care about....

On the topic of turning TCS off - I have certainly read that in multiple places but I also have HPDE instructors who are pretty paranoid about me turning it off. I'd like to learn to drive without it before I am so dependent upon it that I can't live without it. Should I just tell instructor to cram it or bite my tongue until solo approved?

Austin

Tell him it will eat the rear axle seals

(and that driving on the track with TCS is like screwing your wife with a rubber on, if it isn't safe in this scenario - when is it?)

 

[Apex50]

Right on guys, thanks for the feedback! I couldn't give a wooden nickel about a dash light, just wanted to confirm it wasn't linked to anything else I do care about....

On the topic of turning TCS off - I have certainly read that in multiple places but I also have HPDE instructors who are pretty paranoid about me turning it off. I'd like to learn to drive without it before I am so dependent upon it that I can't live without it. Should I just tell instructor to cram it or bite my tongue until solo approved?

Austin

Turning it on or off is your call. You are the one on the hook financially if something bad happens. If your instructor disagrees then request another one from the chief instructor. That isn't unreasonable at all. From the instructors point of view I'm sure if they're that worried they'd be happy to get a different student anyway. I had the opposite experience with my instructors, they were adamant that I not use track mode.

As far as becoming dependent, I wouldn't worry too much. The Mustangs systems are pretty non-intrusive, in my opinion. When I decided to switch everything off the main thing I noticed was having some extra throttle to make the car rotate. It really wasn't a huge deal.

Plus you feel like a badass when you're gridded up, the rain is pouring and you hold that button down for 10 seconds, lol

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[Mark Aubele]

(and that driving on the track with TCS is like screwing your wife with a rubber on, if it isn't safe in this scenario - when is it?)

You should never wear a rubber.

 

[Norm Peterson]

On the topic of turning TCS off - I have certainly read that in multiple places but I also have HPDE instructors who are pretty paranoid about me turning it off. I'd like to learn to drive without it before I am so dependent upon it that I can't live without it. Should I just tell instructor to cram it or bite my tongue until solo approved?

Austin

I suggest a more diplomatic approach. Aside from mentioning things like axle seals and potentially overheated rear pads (I don't know what you've got back there), make him an offer.

"Let me start the session with TCS off, see what you think, and if you're truly uncomfortable I'll turn it back on." If you've got several track days under your belt, this should be easier to get agreement on.

It'll then be up to you to be smooth enough with the throttle on corner exit without holding back too much, and on each upshift. Don't be afraid to mention what you're feeling is happening while you're out there. With no steering wheel or pedals to be getting messages from, your instructor isn't getting as much information as you are. Your car's attitude sensitivity to the throttle in the wet immediately comes to mind, you'll feel the slip angle balance shifts long before he ever would.

Your age and any implications that may have on driving experience might matter.


Norm

 

[2Fass240us]

"Let me start the session with TCS off, see what you think, and if you're truly uncomfortable I'll turn it back on." If you've got several track days under your belt, this should be easier to get agreement on.

It'll then be up to you to be smooth enough with the throttle on corner exit without holding back too much, and on each upshift. Don't be afraid to mention what you're feeling is happening while you're out there. With no steering wheel or pedals to be getting messages from, your instructor isn't getting as much information as you are. Your car's attitude sensitivity to the throttle in the wet immediately comes to mind, you'll feel the slip angle balance shifts long before he ever would.

I'm an instructor and would go for this.

My default position, when asked, is to leave them on and have the student try to drive without engaging them. This is more appropriate for newer students though. At advanced levels where they've proven themselves safe AND have the skills to try new things, I'm OK with them off all the time.

 

[DPE]

To the original point, I do run TPMS in my track wheels as I do also run the tires to and from the track etc. And sensors for the 2010-2014 cars are all of about $60 for a set of four on ebay and usually sync themselves. Hardly necessary, but it saves having a light come on and in theory it could warn you of a rapidly deflating tire a few seconds before you feel something has gone wrong. I have had that situation on the road in a different car.

As for Traction and Stability control, I typically turn TCS off (one click) in all situations, but for the first session or in the wet leave Stability Control on (this would apply to 2010-2014 cars). Good way to get a feel for the track and still be able to spin the tires, but not pitch yourself off if the track is cold/dusty/etc. If it's all good after the first session, all systems usually go off (unless I forget).

There is a certain machismo displayed on this forum on occasion; something about if you can't run the car with no nannies on then get a car you can handle. While my testosterone-fueled side wants to say "Right On!" to that sentiment, the fact is we're running cars typically worth somewhere between $15k and $50k out there and unless you buy specific track day insurance (or your car's value is an insignificant part of your net worth and easily replaceable) you are just screwed if something goes wrong. On some tracks there is a lot of runoff and not much to hit. On others, concrete walls are quite close. So common sense says leave some form of stability control on if that's what allows you to run comfortably on a given day on a given track. Even if it does chew your brakes and your ego a bit.

 

[Nutter281]

I ran this weekend at TWS in the drivers edge HPDE with TCS off the whole time and holy crap that is way more fun! Instructor was a previous mustang driver and gave me a lot of good tips about throttle steering and keeping the rear tires on the edge of grip to fight under steer. My second trip out to TWS (previous was with NASA HPDE1 in October) and took 2 seconds off my best lap and managed to hit it fairly consistently towards the end. Granted, I am just using Harry's lap timer with my iPhone 6 so numbers aren't going to be perfect by any stretch but I'm consistently in the 2:07-2:09 range with my best being 2:06.79. I know I'm not a real boy until I can get below 2:00 so I've got my sights set...

Anyways, on the topic of TCS, in the 2009 GTs, is pushing the dash button once enough to kill all nannies or do I need to do a 10second hold as well? If it's the latter then I only ran partially un-nannied.

Thanks,

Austin

 

[RedfireV8]

Anyways, on the topic of TCS, in the 2009 GTs, is pushing the dash button once enough to kill all nannies or do I need to do a 10second hold as well? If it's the latter then I only ran partially un-nannied.

Thanks,

Austin

TCS is all we get on 05-09 (2010?). One (1) press to turn off and on. 2011+ (2010?) had the AdvanceTrac where you could press and hold to turn off stability etc.

Feel free to correct me if I'm getting my terms/info incorrect.

 

[Norm Peterson]

I just downloaded the 2009 Mustang owner's manual. It only mentions TC, and there is no mention of 'ESC', 'stability control' or 'AdvanceTrak'.


Norm