Front A-Arm Assembly

[SilverBullitGT]

I have to get a new A-Arm assembly and was wondering if any of you had any ideas. I know griggs would be nice, but I feel like that would be overkill. Im open to any suggestions though.

 

[Pony DNA]

I have to get a new A-Arm assembly and was wondering if any of you had any ideas. I know griggs would be nice, but I feel like that would be overkill. Im open to any suggestions though.

SilverBullitGT,

Why do you feel you need an SLA front suspension? Have you tried any of the coilovers available for the S197? Are your racing the car every weekend?

Cheers!

 

[SilverBullitGT]

I am not racing yet but its something I want to get into eventually. My car will be though mostly a daily driver. What did you have in mind though?

 

[DusterRT]

At $1600 I think the Ground Control coilover setup is a good bang for the buck setup. Adjustable, rebuildable/revalvable, you can change spring rates, lifetime warranty etc. I've got over 10,000 daily driving street miles and 6-7 track events on mine since installing this past spring, I've had no problems other than a strut top nut that backed off recently.

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Let's all back up a little bit... first off, why do you need to get a new A-arm assembly? Are you referring to replacing the stock lower control arm for reason of failure?

If so, what happened that caused the failure????? I've got over 40 track days on mine, and they're still going strong, excepting one front bushing that's starting to crack, and somewhat melted ball joint boots. IF you're not talking SLA ($9K to start), then the GT500 control arm is a touch beefier in the bushings and balljoints, and the FR500C control arm has an extended-stud balljoint to help reset the roll center if you're lowered, but will require that you add new rear bushings to the mix, preferably something like the Whiteline ADK bushing set. Other than that, BMR sells a tubular piece, but I've heard horror stories of them failing when subjected to road-course abuse... They're intended as drag parts, mostly, I think...

 

[Pony DNA]

I am not racing yet but its something I want to get into eventually. My car will be though mostly a daily driver. What did you have in mind though?

Realistically it sounds like you have an S197 you need to use as a DD and you have not been on the track yet but would like to try it. Have you ever been on a road course? Have you been to a driving school or HPDE? You may want to take your car to an HPDE as is and see what you find you would like to improve on. Most likely you will find you need better brakes and better dampers and wish you had better wheels and tires. The rest is pretty much fine tuning to meet your local needs.

So what kind of budget do you have? Are we talking trust fund baby or saleryman?

Cheers!

 

[SilverBullitGT]

yep needed as a dd one day track only... not a drag car though... i have the upgraded brakes already

Salary/College Student... so yeah

 

[SilverBullitGT]

Let's all back up a little bit... first off, why do you need to get a new A-arm assembly? Are you referring to replacing the stock lower control arm for reason of failure?

If so, what happened that caused the failure????? I've got over 40 track days on mine, and they're still going strong, excepting one front bushing that's starting to crack, and somewhat melted ball joint boots. IF you're not talking SLA ($9K to start), then the GT500 control arm is a touch beefier in the bushings and balljoints, and the FR500C control arm has an extended-stud balljoint to help reset the roll center if you're lowered, but will require that you add new rear bushings to the mix, preferably something like the Whiteline ADK bushing set. Other than that, BMR sells a tubular piece, but I've heard horror stories of them failing when subjected to road-course abuse... They're intended as drag parts, mostly, I think...

Yes failure... I was told it was due to a very poor alignment. It will be lowered when this goes on as well.

 

[DusterRT]

How/what failed?!

I misunderstood your original post...if you're on a student's budget and don't mean you're looking at an entirely new suspnension, get some sticky tires and run it like you've got it...then use what would be mod money for more entry fees.

 

[Pony DNA]

Let's all back up a little bit... first off, why do you need to get a new A-arm assembly? Are you referring to replacing the stock lower control arm for reason of failure?

If so, what happened that caused the failure????? I've got over 40 track days on mine, and they're still going strong, excepting one front bushing that's starting to crack, and somewhat melted ball joint boots. IF you're not talking SLA ($9K to start), then the GT500 control arm is a touch beefier in the bushings and balljoints, and the FR500C control arm has an extended-stud balljoint to help reset the roll center if you're lowered, but will require that you add new rear bushings to the mix, preferably something like the Whiteline ADK bushing set. Other than that, BMR sells a tubular piece, but I've heard horror stories of them failing when subjected to road-course abuse... They're intended as drag parts, mostly, I think...

SoundGuyDave,

Good catch! I thought he was talking SLA he didn't mention he broke a stock control arm. He must have wacked something pretty good to actually break one.

I have not heard ANYTHING good about BMR's front control arms,they are just not stiff enough. I'd stay away from BMR's front control arms they seem to be breaking way too much for my taste. The BMR front control arms are not well designed and probably would break a lot less if they would seam weld a sheer plate between the tubes they use.

IMO GT500 control arms are the best deal out there at $200 or less per pair. I installed pair when my stock ball joints went south. I put them on with the improved O.E.M. ball joints and the bushings seemed a little bit firmer but the real advantage they offer is ball joints that will not crap out in less than 20K miles.

Then I put the Steeda X5 ball joints in to raise the roll center height on my lowered car. I had long ago installed a Steeda front control arm relocation kit and the combination of these two kits together really helped to make the front end grip much better. It worked so well I found I could back off the front anti-roll bar and dial in less static negative camber. I got slightly improved ride and it is now much smoother over bumpy roads in the canyons. The additional roll height really helped to keep the tires flatter due to reduced roll even with larger front bars and 325lb/in springs I'm running in front.

HTH!

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Pony: I agree, the GT500 lowers are a great deal, but if you're a serious corner-carver, take a hard look at the FR500C lower control arms (M-3075-R), which APPEAR to be a bare GT/GT500 arm, with longer ball joints, and no bushing for the rear mount... The FR500C uses a different bushing there (M-5638-B) with an eccentric caster adjuster (M-3052-R1). The whole setup isn't cheap, right around $650 (at retail), but in reality, that's not too bad for parts developed for a competitive Grand Am GT platform... Ford's note indicate that extensive modifications are required for use on a production vehicle, but we all know that the FR500x cars are all production based, so my guess would be that they're talking about doing the kind of suspension work WE normally do anyway (camber plates, lower/heavier springs, different struts, etc.), so I don't think it would be all that hard. Compare it to buying a set of GT500 control arms, Steeda X5 ball joints, and a Whiteline ADK bushing set, and it winds up being competitively priced.

The real question is whether the alteration in anti-dive and roll center are worth the parts cost. For somebody like me, yes... For somebody who has yet to put their car on the track and really drive, no. The money would be MUCH better spent on registering for an additional event or two.

 

[Pony DNA]

Pony: I agree, the GT500 lowers are a great deal, but if you're a serious corner-carver, take a hard look at the FR500C lower control arms (M-3075-R), which APPEAR to be a bare GT/GT500 arm, with longer ball joints, and no bushing for the rear mount... The FR500C uses a different bushing there (M-5638-B) with an eccentric caster adjuster (M-3052-R1). The whole setup isn't cheap, right around $650 (at retail), but in reality, that's not too bad for parts developed for a competitive Grand Am GT platform... Ford's note indicate that extensive modifications are required for use on a production vehicle, but we all know that the FR500x cars are all production based, so my guess would be that they're talking about doing the kind of suspension work WE normally do anyway (camber plates, lower/heavier springs, different struts, etc.), so I don't think it would be all that hard. Compare it to buying a set of GT500 control arms, Steeda X5 ball joints, and a Whiteline ADK bushing set, and it winds up being competitively priced.

The real question is whether the alteration in anti-dive and roll center are worth the parts cost. For somebody like me, yes... For somebody who has yet to put their car on the track and really drive, no. The money would be MUCH better spent on registering for an additional event or two.

Hi SGDave,

Yeah I like the GT500 control arms for the money on a street car. I almost bought FR500C control arms and the funny looking caster mounts but figured I did not need any more NVH through the front end of my daily driven car. I don't drive it far but I have to maintain a certain level of normalcy or I risk catching flack from the peanut gallery (wife & 3 kids). They are used to my half or more race car on the street for a DD but I really am trying very hard to keep the S197GT on the D/L. When you look at my Mineral Gray GT you know something is different and it looks somehow "right." But unless you know the S197 you can't quite put your finger on it without sticking your head in the wheel wells or under the rear end. It is a very sneaky car, absolutely no flash and very stock looking.

So for a more fun, "boy's" garage project (I have 15 and 17 year old sons and we are going to rebuild the suspension together, cosmetically the car is pristine) I'm buying a nice one owner California E36 BMW M3 5-speed with all the usual issues an E36 M3 has. Which is to say you have to remove the entire suspension including control arms and subframes and replace all the squishy bits with all new squishy bits and where required some improved and less squishy bits along with some new ball joints, C/C adjustable strut mounts and a new set of Koni Sports. We also will be refreshing the brakes with new rotors, pads and a Motul RBF600 fluid flush. Then I'm going to mount up some good summer only rubber and go play with it in the canyons to see just how good an M3 with proper suspension can be.

I like the M3 a lot but they seem to wear bushings out like nobody's business, 50K and you need to toss every single one of them out and start all over. I cannot for the life of me figure out how people can stand to drive these cars past 100K with completely fried bushings! They are horrible riding, noisy and the handling and steering go to hell as does tire wear. The M3's factory struts are crap too and only good for the first 25K to 30K miles before you have to toss them. I figure I'll install a set of Koni Sports cartridge inserts or maybe some Koni double adjustable dampers and enjoy them while the bushings and rubber are fresh. Too bad my older son will be leaving next fall to go off to college, oh wait a minute that means I get to drive the M3.

Cheers!

 

[SilverBullitGT]

Well what happen was, is about a year ago I was hit in the front passenger side and they didn't do quite a good enough job in replacing what needed to be replaced. So now it has compounded a little and the whole a-arm assembly needs to go

I will for sure look into the gt500 a-arms

I would really like to save as much money as possible so I can go have some fun on the track.

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Pony: Nice looking ride!! Mine in current form isn't quite so "discrete."

Sorry for the crappy shot, it's the only thing I have that's really current. You'll have an absolute BLAST with that E36, just be careful not to "money shift" the thing, the valves REALLY don't like to be over-revved.

SBGT: I think the GT500 arms are your best bet, save the rest of the money, and get thee to a NASA event!! The first time you watch an American Iron rolling start during a break from driving, you'll be hooked for life! The NASA TX region is pretty active, and has a lot of good guys in it, you'll have a blast!

 

[gbrown]

A possible alternative to the FR arms are these: http://www.whiteline.com.au/product_detail.php?part_number=KCA305

I have installed a set of these on a customers car and he is very happy with them. They give you a small amount of Caster adjustment also.

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Ahhh.... there's the link I was looking for!! That's the Whiteline ADK bushing that I was talking about! Would Steve be the customer you're referring to? If so, I saw his car out at Putnam, and it looked pretty flat in the braking zones. I'm replacing my arms over the winter, and I don't know if I'm going the FR500C route or not, but if I do, and the WADK is compatible, then that's going to be a winning combination...

 

[DusterRT]

Well what happen was, is about a year ago I was hit in the front passenger side and they didn't do quite a good enough job in replacing what needed to be replaced. So now it has compounded a little and the whole a-arm assembly needs to go

I will for sure look into the gt500 a-arms

I would really like to save as much money as possible so I can go have some fun on the track.

Sounds like the control arm was stressed/cracked in the accident and fatigued to the point of failure over time..there's no way a misalignment would cause a control arm failure unless it was faulty to begin with. I say save your money and just get some stock LCA's if you're on a tight budget. Your first mod should be track time!

 

[foolio2k4]

Dammit. I just bought a set of the BMR front A-Arms. Guess I'll be selling them soon.

 

[Pony DNA]

Well what happen was, is about a year ago I was hit in the front passenger side and they didn't do quite a good enough job in replacing what needed to be replaced. So now it has compounded a little and the whole a-arm assembly needs to go

I will for sure look into the gt500 a-arms

I would really like to save as much money as possible so I can go have some fun on the track.

Hey SilverBullitGT,

I have a pair of stock GT front control arms you might want to buy from me cheap. The ball joints are both bad but they do have Steeda bushing inserts installed which help firm up the liquid filled bushings. So, if you buy some X5 ball joints and pop them in you will have a good set of front control arms that are all set to use with your sport springs. The catch is you need 18" wheels for this setup to work.

Cheers!

 

[Pony DNA]

Dammit. I just bought a set of the BMR front A-Arms. Guess I'll be selling them soon.

Hi foolio2k4,

You could have them boxed, that would likely solve the breakage issues they are having. Of course by the time you welded a couple of pieces of 1/8" steel to the arms to fix them they probably weight more than the stock arms.

Cheers!