05+ 4.6L 3V Forced Induction and PCV Delete

[tmcolegr]

Recently I swapped my Saleen S/C pulley from a 3.2" (12 psi) to a 3.0" (14 psi) pulley. Shortly thereafter I noticed after a spirited drive that the rear crankshaft seal and rear oil pan gasket were "sweating". This never happened until I swapped S/C pulleys. I took the vehicle to the dealer and they replaced the rear crankshaft seal retainer, crankshaft seal and the oil pan gasket under warranty. I brought the vehicle home and put it up on stands. Cranked up the vehicle and let it idle - no leak. I took it for a mild mannered drive - no leak. I then made several WOT runs and the leak was still there. I do not believe this is a failure of the gaskets or seals. I believe this to be a failure of the OEM PCV system to adequately evacuate the additional crankcase fumes at these boost levels. I should also mention this is on a stock long block.

So I plan on deleting the PCV and running crankcase breathers vented to the atmosphere. I have already located K&N breathers that fit the valve covers. Additionally I will cap the vacuum nipples on the C&L Racer intake tube and the Saleen S/C. This should delete the OEM PCV system, adequately vent the crankcase, and not affect the tune because both the intake tube and S/C ports have been plugged preventing unmetered air from entering the air intake after the MAF sensor.

I did not decide to do this on a whim. I read every thread I could find on 03-04 Cobra PCV delete as this is a common practice. I then spoke to 3 very capable shops & tuners (JDM, VMP Tuning & D'Agostino Racing) before making this decision. The only downside could be some smell from the crankcase vapors. However, given the choice of smell vs. leak - I'll take the smell.

If anyone else is interested here is the parts list:
3/8" K&N Breather (Passenger side) 62-1320*
5/8" K&N Breather (Driver's side) 62-1340
3/8" Vacuum Cap (C&L Intake Tube) 660-1698 NAPA
5/8" Vacuum Cap (Saleen S/C) 660-1696 NAPA

* I am not planning on running a breather in place of the oil filler cap, rather I will attach a breather to the 3/8" nipple on the valve cover and retain the oil filler cap.

All these parts are less that $40. The entire installation should take less than 10 minutes. If this resolves this issue, I may replace the breather on the driver's side with a vented catch can. Additionally this will prevent 100% of the crankcase vapors from entering the air intake system.

Jim III, Justin, Nori and others, please feel free to chime in with your thoughts.

Regards,

Todd

 

[2oo5GT]

I installed a breather filter on both sides for the PCV, driver side sucks to much oil and the passenger side does alittle, but the passenger side with the filter, oil will come up out of the filter and gather on the coil on plug connector area. No problems with the driver side having a breather filter. I reinstalled the hose back on the passenger side. I can only imagine how much it would suck oil with an SC on there.

 

[tmcolegr]

I installed a breather filter on both sides for the PCV, driver side sucks to much oil and the passenger side does alittle, but the passenger side with the filter, oil will come up out of the filter and gather on the coil on plug connector area. No problems with the driver side having a breather filter. I reinstalled the hose back on the passenger side. I can only imagine how much it would suck oil with an SC on there.

Question: If I'm understanding your post, you eventually reinstalled the passenger's side vacuum tube that is attached to the intake tube and left the driver's side vented to the atmosphere? Is that correct? If so, you have now allowed the passenger's side intake tube at the valve cover to suck unmetered air (after the MAF sensor) into the intake tube and are in danger of running lean without the PCM being able to compensate for your vacuum leak.

If your going to delete the PCV, both sides must be eliminated.

 

[Kevin@PMP]

Question: If I'm understanding your post, you eventually reinstalled the passenger's side vacuum tube that is attached to the intake tube and left the driver's side vented to the atmosphere? Is that correct? If so, you have now allowed the passenger's side intake tube at the valve cover to suck unmetered air (after the MAF sensor) into the intake tube and are in danger of running lean without the PCM being able to compensate for your vacuum leak.

If your going to delete the PCV, both sides must be eliminated.

+100000000000000000000000
It's an all or nothing mod.

If you have a breather on one side and the PCV tube connected on the other you are allowing unmetered air into the motor.

 

[tmcolegr]

Kevin would you mind posting a couple pictures of your breather setup? I'm sure it will be very similar to what I'm planning on doing. It's not rocket science.

 

[Kevin@PMP]

Kevin would you mind posting a couple pictures of your breather setup? I'm sure it will be very similar to what I'm planning on doing. It's not rocket science.

The car is at the body shop right now, there was a title fight Mustang v. Big Ass White Tail Doe at about 3am Sunday before Thanksgiving. Mustang has some bruises but the deer's head hitting the leading edge of the hood at 30mph KO'd (and killed) the deer.


It just has a couple of cheap breathers on the valve covers. I only had to plug one hole and that was on the inlet pipe to my turbo, the hole in the intake is being used as a boost reference port for my BOV.

 

[Mick Mach]

I just recently switched to the 3.4 pulley and I too see the oil spot on my garage floor only every now and then..I couldnt figure it out...still hadnt til i seen this post...good deal! is this my problem as well?
Todd..you didnt see this til the 3.0 or was it before also?
I see you said you recently swaped pulleys so......
at what point in psi would this happen at...I only see 8/9psi with my 3.4

 

[tmcolegr]

I just recently switched to the 3.4 pulley and I too see the oil spot on my garage floor only every now and then..I couldnt figure it out...still hadnt til i seen this post...good deal! is this my problem as well?
Todd..you didnt see this til the 3.0 or was it before also?
I see you said you recently swaped pulleys so......
at what point in psi would this happen at...I only see 8/9psi with my 3.4

Can't say what your leak could be. Are you manual or automatic? Is it engine or trans fluid?

I ran a 3.4" pulley on my 05 and my wife's 06 for quite some time with no issues. I then switched to a 3.2" pulley on both vehicles with no issues. I only have had this issue since switching to the 3.0" pulley (14 psi) on my 05.

I spoke to Jim III at JDM today and they have seen this as well.

 

[GI Joe]

thats what I'm doing but to add to that I'll run them both into a breather can like I did on my 02 car. Works great and puts all the vapor where I want it instead of all under the hood..

 

[tmcolegr]

thats what I'm doing but to add to that I'll run them both into a breather can like I did on my 02 car. Works great and puts all the vapor where I want it instead of all under the hood..

I would be very interested in seeing pictures when complete

 

[Mick Mach]

it looks to be motor oil and I run a auto...... Ive only seen it a couple of times and its always been a few days afterwards...the spot is rather nasty by then...Ill have to keep a closer watch on it.

 

[GI Joe]

I started pushing oil out my passenger side when going from 12 to 15.
This fixed it on my 02 and will fix it on these cars too. Here is a pic of Pete's car with it how it should be. You can see the 2 lines run to the can. Allows you to put the can where you want even at a fender opening if you wish. Summit sells FMS breather that are half closed chrome and half open so it can vent out the back side.

 

[MLC40]

pcv delete

I would be very interested in seeing pictures when complete

subscribing

 

[2oo5GT]

Question: If I'm understanding your post, you eventually reinstalled the passenger's side vacuum tube that is attached to the intake tube and left the driver's side vented to the atmosphere? Is that correct? If so, you have now allowed the passenger's side intake tube at the valve cover to suck unmetered air (after the MAF sensor) into the intake tube and are in danger of running lean without the PCM being able to compensate for your vacuum leak.

If your going to delete the PCV, both sides must be eliminated.

RPMS are not fluxing and my dyno says i'm running a 12.7 AF, so i'm not sure. Even at 3K rpms,looking at my dyno sheet, i'm still at a 13.1 AF. So i'm not really sure now. If i do the passenger side again, i'll have to have something else to catch it cause the breather filter causes oil to come out of it and puddles. i need to do the DIY oil seperator for both sides.

 

[Kevin@PMP]

RPMS are not fluxing and my dyno says i'm running a 12.7 AF, so i'm not sure. Even at 3K rpms,looking at my dyno sheet, i'm still at a 13.1 AF. So i'm not really sure now. If i do the passenger side again, i'll have to have something else to catch it cause the breather filter causes oil to come out of it and puddles. i need to do the DIY oil seperator for both sides.

There is no doubt if you have one side of the PCV hooked up and the other side vented your motor is injesting unmetered air. It may be within the error correction factors of the PCM which would explain why you aren't running lean. But the way you currently have it setup is not correct, I promise you if you log STFTs and LTFTs you will see the PCM doing more correction than is ideal.

 

[2oo5GT]

There is no doubt if you have one side of the PCV hooked up and the other side vented your motor is injesting unmetered air. It may be within the error correction factors of the PCM which would explain why you aren't running lean. But the way you currently have it setup is not correct, I promise you if you log STFTs and LTFTs you will see the PCM doing more correction than is ideal.

i'm going to put the breather back on it when i get home and plug the CAI up. like you said it's unjesting umetered air but from my stand point and the dyno it looks good, i guess that's what was fooling me, but if i logged it i would see the problem. Cool, i 'll definitley put it back on. Thank you.

 

[GI Joe]

run both sides to a breather catch can ( vented) or run breathers on both sides for a complete delete option. As stated you can NOT do just one side

 

[Slofoot]

Or you can wipe the little bit of oil off of the garage floor and forget about it. In tmcolegr's case that is. I probably made 100 passes last year and it never was a problem and only leaked out a few drops each time after I went to the track.

 

[tmcolegr]

Or you can wipe the little bit of oil off of the garage floor and forget about it. In tmcolegr's case that is. I probably made 100 passes last year and it never was a problem and only leaked out a few drops each time after I went to the track.

Point well taken. Believe me I've thought about it.

 

[tmcolegr]

Done!!