2.8H kenne bell trade for f1A????

Department Of Boost · Jan 8, 2015

Len20hun said:
Nice! I eventually would like to go with a 326ci or that new ford racing 5.3L short block to make more than 800. I just don't want to blow it up fast so I can enjoy it for a while. I see why you car make that much power with little boost bc of that big bore . I'm assuming this power level is thru an auto?

If you are looking at going 800 or 800+ at some point with a stroker your money would probably be better spent on a R-spec. The KB will make that. But the blower is all stretched out at that point and not in its "happy spot". It will be making a lot of heat up there and the KB IC's are frankly the worst in the business. If you add a 10 rib belt drive it will at least be reliable though. But there is an issue with that. We have not gone into production on those belt kits because of lack of interest and unfortunately it is possible we never will. And I have never seen a KB go past 850. So that is pretty much the limit.

With your goals the R-spec with a 3.4 is probably the long term wiser choice. It will be loafing along at 800-900hp. It won't have any belt issues. It has the best IC setup devised.......ever. And even the engine cooling is better.

Something to think about. :thumb:

Timmbo · Jan 8, 2015

Department Of Boost said:
If you add a 10 rib belt drive it will at least be reliable though. But there is an issue with that. We have not gone into production on those belt kits because of lack of interest and unfortunately it is possible we never will.

Yeah but will you still make a 10 rib kit for me someday if I decide to go that route???

You did for my buddy in Michigan! :whistling:

Department Of Boost · Jan 8, 2015

Timmbo said:
Yeah but will you still make a 10 rib kit for me someday if I decide to go that route???

If I can get enough people to buy them.

You did for my buddy in Michigan!

I didn't make one for Mike. He tested prototypes for us. :thumb:

Len20hun · Jan 8, 2015

Department Of Boost said:
If you are looking at going 800 or 800+ at some point with a stroker your money would probably be better spent on a R-spec. The KB will make that. But the blower is all stretched out at that point and not in its "happy spot". It will be making a lot of heat up there and the KB IC's are frankly the worst in the business. If you add a 10 rib belt drive it will at least be reliable though. But there is an issue with that. We have not gone into production on those belt kits because of lack of interest and unfortunately it is possible we never will. And I have never seen a KB go past 850. So that is pretty much the limit.

With your goals the R-spec with a 3.4 is probably the long term wiser choice. It will be loafing along at 800-900hp. It won't have any belt issues. It has the best IC setup devised.......ever. And even the engine cooling is better.

Something to think about.

I like the idea of the 3.4 whipple with all the cooling mods and reliability with no belt issues. That's why I was thinking of going back to a procharger f1a for reliability and better cooling before I found out about the kit you guys have. For now, I'm going to enjoy the 2.8 KB with maybe a little juice up top until I can afford the 3.4 and big bore stroker motor . If I could start from scratch I would have made better choices to meet my goal. I will keep you guys updated on the final numbers and some videos. Hopefully the kit goes in production bc dealing with those belt issues on the street is No joke. Thanks!

blownGTvert · Jan 9, 2015

You mentioned "belt issues" multiple times. Can you clarify what your issues actually are? There are some "fixes" and things to check if your constantly eating belts.

Len20hun · Jan 9, 2015

blownGTvert said:
You mentioned "belt issues" multiple times. Can you clarify what your issues actually are? There are some "fixes" and things to check if your constantly eating belts.

On the track for the most part my car does fine bc of no loss of traction. If I'm driving home from the track or trying to have a little fun on the street the belt would come off after letting off the gas to keep the car straight from loss of traction.This is from a dead stop and usually It does great at a roll of about 30mph+ because the belt is in rotation. I have a steeda double tensioner and 8rib setup. I had a procharger once before and never had these issues and if it happened I could take the belt toss it in the car and ride home on the other belt and no boost. The only way I think I can solve this problem is with a dedicated belt drive. Maybe you have a few suggestions to help me until I get the coin for the belt drive?

blownGTvert · Jan 9, 2015

Len20hun said:
On the track for the most part my car does fine bc of no loss of traction. If I'm driving home from the track or trying to have a little fun on the street the belt would come off after letting off the gas to keep the car straight from loss of traction.This is from a dead stop and usually It does great at a roll of about 30mph+ because the belt is in rotation. I have a steeda double tensioner and 8rib setup. I had a procharger once before and never had these issues and if it happened I could take the belt toss it in the car and ride home on the other belt and no boost. The only way I think I can solve this problem is with a dedicated belt drive. Maybe you have a few suggestions to help me until I get the coin for the belt drive?

For starters I would confirm belt alignment. The only exact method is with a laser alignment tool. All pulleys must be align off the crank balancer. Note that the PS pump pulley is suspect and even 1mm offset will cause issues. The PS can be loosened and usually brought in alignment as an assembly. An 8 rib setup is absolutely a must. All PD kits should come standard with 8 rib pulleys. You stated your car already has an 8 rib setup.

Secondly I would confirm you have correct tension, and pre load on the tensioner. The tensioner should be midway through its travel to prevent bouncing off the stop. That will chuck a belt everytime. The correct tension can be obtained be adjusting the 61mm pulley next to the snout. (This is the pulley that comes in the KB kit). Playing with idler pulley sizes may also be required to obtain the ideal tensioner preload.

Lastly you need the correct tensioner. I've tried them all and there is only one I found to work. Almost all aftermarket tensioners are stronger than stock, but all most still use the OEM 55lb spring. This includes the expensive Thump Racing unit. No dice with these units. You need something that won't bend and has a heavier spring. This brings you to the UPR billet tensioner. Rock solid and is assembled with a 75lb spring.

Do the (3) things above and 90% of your belt issues will disappear. The remaining 10% is inherinent to all PD blowers due to the rotating mass (inertia) of 80lb rotor spinning 3x as fast as the crank with a 10' + long belt. This obstical of physics can only be eliminated with a dedicated belt to drive the blower. Again 90% of belt issues are attribute to 1 or more of 3 things above not being met.

Department Of Boost · Jan 9, 2015

Or just put a Frankentensioner on and be done with it.

Len20hun · Jan 9, 2015

blownGTvert said:
For starters I would confirm belt alignment. The only exact method is with a laser alignment tool. All pulleys must be align off the crank balancer. Note that the PS pump pulley is suspect and even 1mm offset will cause issues. The PS can be loosened and usually brought in alignment as an assembly. An 8 rib setup is absolutely a must. All PD kits should come standard with 8 rib pulleys. You stated your car already has an 8 rib setup.

Secondly I would confirm you have correct tension, and pre load on the tensioner. The tensioner should be midway through its travel to prevent bouncing off the stop. That will chuck a belt everytime. The correct tension can be obtained be adjusting the 61mm pulley next to the snout. (This is the pulley that comes in the KB kit). Playing with idler pulley sizes may also be required to obtain the ideal tensioner preload.

Lastly you need the correct tensioner. I've tried them all and there is only one I found to work. Almost all aftermarket tensioners are stronger than stock, but all most still use the OEM 55lb spring. This includes the expensive Thump Racing unit. No dice with these units. You need something that won't bend and has a heavier spring. This brings you to the UPR billet tensioner. Rock solid and is assembled with a 75lb spring.

Do the (3) things above and 90% of your belt issues will disappear. The remaining 10% is inherinent to all PD blowers due to the rotating mass (inertia) of 80lb rotor spinning 3x as fast as the crank with a 10' + long belt. This obstical of physics can only be eliminated with a dedicated belt to drive the blower. Again 90% of belt issues are attribute to 1 or more of 3 things above not being met.

Thanks for the info. Hopefully the car is done soon and I can check the alignment of the pulleys and tension on tensioner. Never thought about the PS being able to adjust. I'm sure that 1 of the 3 is a problem for always throwing belts.

mustangtcs · Jan 10, 2015

It is hard to see in your pic but here is another fix that you may or may not know about. I have a 05 GT with a used Kenne Bell that I purchase from BBR. They sent me an installation manual that they had laying around. I have had the Kenne Bell on for 2 months until one day my belt came off. I ordered a thump racing tensioner and two belts. After I put it all back together I got skeptical and called Kenne Bell. Apparently the kits now ship with a supplemental manual of updates. The one update is to the picture I attached. They say to remove pulley number 7 in the manual. The update is to replace pulley number 7 with a smaller idler pulley. They sent me the pulley for free. Ever since I have beating the snot out of this car and have had it to 7000 rpms multiple times spinning sideways letting off etc for over a year now.... The belt won't even chirp. And the motor hasn't blown either. knocking on wood here.

cbracoupe · Jan 10, 2015

Department Of Boost · Jan 10, 2015

Frankentensioner

cbracoupe · Jan 10, 2015

blownGTvert said:
Do the (3) things above and 90% of your belt issues will disappear. The remaining 10% is inherinent to all PD blowers due to the rotating mass (inertia) of 80lb rotor spinning 3x as fast as the crank with a 10' + long belt. This obstical of physics can only be eliminated with a dedicated belt to drive the blower. Again 90% of belt issues are attribute to 1 or more of 3 things above not being met.

I find it really hard to believe the rotors weigh that much. Am I wrong???

Len20hun · Jan 11, 2015

Department Of Boost said:
Frankentensioner

Where and how much is you guys frankentensioner? This is the tensioner I have double steeda tensioner. Best pic I could find lol
http://http://www.s197forum.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=51266&stc=1&d=1420976700

Len20hun · Jan 11, 2015

mustangtcs said:
It is hard to see in your pic but here is another fix that you may or may not know about. I have a 05 GT with a used Kenne Bell that I purchase from BBR. They sent me an installation manual that they had laying around. I have had the Kenne Bell on for 2 months until one day my belt came off. I ordered a thump racing tensioner and two belts. After I put it all back together I got skeptical and called Kenne Bell. Apparently the kits now ship with a supplemental manual of updates. The one update is to the picture I attached. They say to remove pulley number 7 in the manual. The update is to replace pulley number 7 with a smaller idler pulley. They sent me the pulley for free. Ever since I have beating the snot out of this car and have had it to 7000 rpms multiple times spinning sideways letting off etc for over a year now.... The belt won't even chirp. And the motor hasn't blown either. knocking on wood here.

Interesting! I don't have a pulley for 7. It's always been deleted on my setup and that maybe the issue. In that case, I need to call kenne bell for the same size pulley. It's also a difference when boost come into factor that I'm running 16-17psi too? Do you have a stock balancer and a 8rib or 6rib.

blownGTvert · Jan 11, 2015

Len20hun said:
Where and how much is you guys frankentensioner? This is the tensioner I have double steeda tensioner. Best pic I could find lol
http://http://www.s197forum.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=51266&stc=1&d=1420976700

What your after is spring tension and the SteedA won't get the job done as it uses the OEM 55lb spring inside. The DOB Frankentensioner is a great option as it is 2 OEM tensioners sandwiched together. Otherwise the UPR tensioner has a heavier 75lb spring.

blownGTvert · Jan 11, 2015

D

cbracoupe said:
I find it really hard to believe the rotors weigh that much. Am I wrong???[/QUOTE

The physical mass of the rotors varies blower, size, manufacturer, etc. However, using Newtons Law of Rotating Interia, you would be suprised the amount of energy is stored with them spinning upwards of 10,000 to 18,000 rpm!

Picture the belt getting longer as engine rpm increases, tensioner start to do its work, thats when you grab second gear, tensioner bounces of the stop, rotors are say 18,000 rpm, crank 6500 rpm, the belt can't hang on for the ride.

A correctly preloaded tensioner, with the proper tension is critical. You can't eliminate it 100% belt issues with a single belt system. But you can make it a lot better.

Department Of Boost · Jan 11, 2015

Len20hun said:
Where and how much is you guys frankentensioner? This is the tensioner I have double steeda tensioner. Best pic I could find lol
http://http://www.s197forum.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=51266&stc=1&d=1420976700

The Frankentensioner is two OEM tensioners working together. I offer a kit which is all the spacers and fasteners needed for $30. You will need tow OEM tensioners to make it happen. The OEM tensioners are about $34/.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000IY42BG/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=NLPNCKG6VQ6C&coliid=I3377W98ZVNCB9

It has double the spring pressure and more importantly a LOT more throw. The spring pressure is good, but the throw is the key.

It's pretty much bulletproof. I invented the Frankentensioner for my Kenne Bell blower. :thumb:

PM me if you want one.

Dubstep Shep · Jan 11, 2015

Department Of Boost said:
The Frankentensioner is two OEM tensioners working together. I offer a kit which is all the spacers and fasteners needed for $30. You will need tow OEM tensioners to make it happen. The OEM tensioners are about $34/.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000IY42BG...UTF8&colid=NLPNCKG6VQ6C&coliid=I3377W98ZVNCB9

It has double the spring pressure and more importantly a LOT more throw. The spring pressure is good, but the throw is the key.

It's pretty much bulletproof. I invented the Frankentensioner for my Kenne Bell blower.

PM me if you want one.

I love my Frakentensioner. Running a 10% OD crank and a 2.65" SC pulley with zero belt slip on a six rib belt.

Only downside, I managed to break the end off one where the wrench goes in. I think that was just a bad OEM tensioner though

Department Of Boost · Jan 11, 2015

Dubstep Shep said:
Only downside, I managed to break the end off one where the wrench goes in. I think that was just a bad OEM tensioner though

I've done that. I punched the shit out of the radiator support. That sucked!

2.8H kenne bell trade for f1A????

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