2011 Mustang GT track log

[neema]

What did you tighten the in-body bolt down to on the UCA? Did you use a giant cheater bar?

I borrowed an uber torque wrench from O'Reily's. It was still tough to tighten down all the way! Some primal grunts were thrown in to make it happen

 

[Digital_Synapse]

So jealous of that track.

 

[neema]

Stock brakes are back on (sad day) and the front wheels clear everything okay. If I could, I'd increase the offset 3-5mm. There's still almost 1cm of clearance between the front strut and the wheel. It'll be "aggressive", but it does squeeze in there.

18x11.5s aren't bad for stock front fenders!

 

[claudermilk]

Wow, those stick out a ton! Are you flaring the fenders? I think aggressive is an understatement.

 

[neema]

Wow, those stick out a ton! Are you flaring the fenders? I think aggressive is an understatement.

They *should* sit the same way Vorshlag 18x11s sit relative to the fender (give or take some mm's). Consider the fact that there's less camber when the wheels are drooping. The top of the tire should tuck into the fender.


...should

 

[neema]

Fitment over OEM brembos is fine. I don't think the medium pad wheel would work, but the high pad has good clearance all around.

 

[neema]

Some pictures from the weekend:

 

[neema]

And here's some tech. I originally ordered the front wheels to be positioned relative to the strut in the same location that Cortex sized 18x10.5s (et47) sit. Theres actually a ton of room still inboard between rim and strut. See below:

That's at least a safe 15mm of space!! I have an 18x11.5 et 34 right now and could easily go with an offset like et50. Unfortunately, weld doesn't make their high pad RTS wheel in a higher offset, so I'm stuck where I am unless I can get a caliper that is mounted farther inboard (i.e. stoptech calipers) and go with a medium pad wheel. I'm tempted to think that I can use the rear sizing (18x12 et 56) with a 8-13mm spacer and still have the front wheel at a safe distance from the strut, all while having a square, tire rotation friendly setup. FWIW, the medium pad 18x12s are also .5lbs lighter than the high pad 18x11.5s. Steering limiters will probably be a must at that point. Cortex front struts offer a generous amount of space. neato.

FYI the tires are 305/660/18 Conti GT-Os

Some pit pics:

 

[Mountain]

I borrowed an uber torque wrench from O'Reily's. It was still tough to tighten down all the way! Some primal grunts were thrown in to make it happen

Im interested in hearing your opinions on that UCA. Feel of the car (cornering, power-on ability, over bumps/uneven surfaces etc.)? NVH?

 

[neema]

Im interested in hearing your opinions on that UCA. Feel of the car (cornering, power-on ability, over bumps/uneven surfaces etc.)? NVH?

I liked it. Laguna Seca is a silky smooh track so it's not the best location to check for choppiness. The car puts the power down better than it did (probably a combo of new tires + UCA) and I'm still not used to it.

NVH is definitely there. I drove around without the bottom seat cover in place as well as harmonic dampers removed and it's like axle cacophony in the cabin. I woulnd't daily drive a car with this UCA.

 

[Norm Peterson]

What did you tighten the in-body bolt down to on the UCA? Did you use a giant cheater bar?

I borrowed an uber torque wrench from O'Reily's. It was still tough to tighten down all the way! Some primal grunts were thrown in to make it happen

For the level of use most of us are likely to need a bigger capacity torque wrench to do, the 300 ft-lb HF torque wrench will work just fine. It's 3/4" drive, so you'll probably need a couple of 3/4 to ?? adapters.


Norm

 

[Lucky_13]

For the level of use most of us are likely to need a bigger capacity torque wrench to do, the 300 ft-lb HF torque wrench will work just fine. It's 3/4" drive, so you'll probably need a couple of 3/4 to ?? adapters.


Norm

Norm, do you have personal experience with that wrench? Pondered picking one up for a while to do the axle nuts for a rear GT500 rotor swap, but was wary of its quality.

 

[zeroescape]

What kind of clearance did you have with the f14 18x11 setup up front? Wheel to strut.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Norm, do you have personal experience with that wrench? Pondered picking one up for a while to do the axle nuts for a rear GT500 rotor swap, but was wary of its quality.

It seems to be OK so far. Got it for axle nuts and strut-knuckle fasteners, but also use it for torqueing lug nuts. I figure that it ought to be good indefinitely for torqueing to 1/3 of max as long as I return it to the min setting.

What kind of clearance did you have with the f14 18x11 setup up front? Wheel to strut.

If you're asking me, with Koni yellows I have barely 1 mm, and I needed to fab up an 0.025" thick spacer to get that much on the passenger side to eliminate a little rubbing in hard right turns with one or more passengers aboard. YMMV.


Norm

 

[SlowJim]

Thanks for the new wallpaper!

 

[Vorshlag-Fair]

Wow, those stick out a ton! Are you flaring the fenders? I think aggressive is an understatement.

Yea, those are poking out quite a bit. How much tire rub did you experience front and back on the fender lips? If you haven't checked the tires for damage I would do so before your next track outing.

It doesn't look as bad when loaded in a corner, but I would bet that the outsides of the front tires are touching. The lip of the wheel looks like it is at least 1/2" outside of the fender lip in the picture above - and that's with the suspension loaded laterally in that picture.

FYI the tires are 305/660/18 Conti GT-Os

Not trying to knock on your pictures - those wheels look pretty nice - but they don't fit your car and you are asking for tire rubbing/cutting if you keep running them with that much poke on track. If there is 15mm inboard to the strut, that's 15mm of room outboard they need. Fitting an 11" wide wheel onto the front of an S197 is difficult even with the right offset, camber settings and normal offset struts, and looks like even more work with that setup.

Also, the LR wheel looks like it is poking out a LOT more than the RR wheel. Have you adjusted the panhard/watts lately? Maybe it was the angle of the pictures but it looks like the axle is offset by at least 3/4", if not more?

That's S197forum member Cmash's S197 Mustang with 18x11s and 315/35/18 Kumho V710s. As you can see they are barely tucked under the stock fenders at rest, and that is a wider tire than the 305 Conti.

Also, having run and weighed those exact size and model tires, there's not a lot of extra strength in that Continental GT-O tire's carcass. These are nowhere near as over-built as a DOT-style steel belted radial. In one track weekend we wore through the tread rubber and through much of the carcass, belts, and almost popped the outside front tire. It was a very close call because these wore at an alarmingly rapid rate. For the modest grip levels offered by these 305mm GT-Os, just know that they still can wear very quickly on cars as heavy as our Mustangs.

I hope this doesn't come off the wrong way - just trying to help prevent the pain of a blown tire or mangled fender. I've done both in the past, when I tried to get a little too aggressive with wide wheel/tire fitments on my own car. I am always trying to push the limits of what is possible with tire and wheel fitments, but it doesn't always work. The picture above was after several iterations of wheels, tires, spacers, and fender rolling.

For every aggressive wheel/tire fitment we have pioneered there's usually half a dozen wheel/tires/spacer set-ups we tried that didn't fit, and it has even turned into smashed fenders and bruised paint before (see above). That debacle was when I tried to fit a 275mm tire (that measured closer to 285mm of tread) on an 18x10" wheel on an E36 BMW, that came with a 7.5" wheel stock on the front. It took just the right cornering force, enough camber on the course and just a tick of steering input to cause the tire to hook the inside lip of the fender and turn it inside out.... then SMASHED it to all hell on the next bump. I destroyed both front fenders and cut the crap out of the tires. Luckily it was at autocross speeds and not Leguna Seca speeds.

Just ... be mindful and careful. And good luck!

 

[BMR Tech]

Love the wheels, and the helpful info.

Keep up the great work. I have enjoyed your thread greatly.

 

[neema]

Yea, those are poking out quite a bit. How much tire rub did you experience front and back on the fender lips? If you haven't checked the tires for damage I would do so before your next track outing.

I realized that the wheels poked (which caught me off guard; they shouldn't have poked as much--more on that later) and I was worried about the tire's proximity to the fender, so I watched it like a hawk. I know that Laguna Seca is a very smooth track and one may think you don't get into extreme levels of suspension compression, however the corkscrew puts most cars completely onto the bump stops (which would show on the driver side front tire) and so far they're untouched. It may be worse with more steering angle.

It doesn't look as bad when loaded in a corner, but I would bet that the outsides of the front tires are touching. The lip of the wheel looks like it is at least 1/2" outside of the fender lip in the picture above - and that's with the suspension loaded laterally in that picture.

Not trying to knock on your pictures - those wheels look pretty nice - but they don't fit your car and you are asking for tire rubbing/cutting if you keep running them with that much poke on track. If there is 15mm inboard to the strut, that's 15mm of room outboard they need. Fitting an 11" wide wheel onto the front of an S197 is difficult even with the right offset, camber settings and normal offset struts, and looks like even more work with that setup.

Also, the LR wheel looks like it is poking out a LOT more than the RR wheel. Have you adjusted the panhard/watts lately? Maybe it was the angle of the pictures but it looks like the axle is offset by at least 3/4", if not more?

You're correct here. The driver side wheel is poking substantially more. I need to re-center the rear axle.

That's S197forum member Cmash's S197 Mustang with 18x11s and 315/35/18 Kumho V710s. As you can see they are barely tucked under the stock fenders at rest, and that is a wider tire than the 305 Conti.

Also, having run and weighed those exact size and model tires, there's not a lot of extra strength in that Continental GT-O tire's carcass. These are nowhere near as over-built as a DOT-style steel belted radial. In one track weekend we wore through the tread rubber and through much of the carcass, belts, and almost popped the outside front tire. It was a very close call because these wore at an alarmingly rapid rate. For the modest grip levels offered by these 305mm GT-Os, just know that they still can wear very quickly on cars as heavy as our Mustangs.

I hope this doesn't come off the wrong way - just trying to help prevent the pain of a blown tire or mangled fender. I've done both in the past, when I tried to get a little too aggressive with wide wheel/tire fitments on my own car. I am always trying to push the limits of what is possible with tire and wheel fitments, but it doesn't always work. The picture above was after several iterations of wheels, tires, spacers, and fender rolling.

For every aggressive wheel/tire fitment we have pioneered there's usually half a dozen wheel/tires/spacer set-ups we tried that didn't fit, and it has even turned into smashed fenders and bruised paint before (see above). That debacle was when I tried to fit a 275mm tire (that measured closer to 285mm of tread) on an 18x10" wheel on an E36 BMW, that came with a 7.5" wheel stock on the front. It took just the right cornering force, enough camber on the course and just a tick of steering input to cause the tire to hook the inside lip of the fender and turn it inside out.... then SMASHED it to all hell on the next bump. I destroyed both front fenders and cut the crap out of the tires. Luckily it was at autocross speeds and not Leguna Seca speeds.

Just ... be mindful and careful. And good luck!

I appreciate your response, Terry. A lot of inspiration for my wheel fitments came from your trials and tribulations. The front wheel's poke wasn't entirely anticipated (and I did lots of measuring ahead of time) and I think the curveball was switching back to stock Brembos. The OEM 1 piece style rotor may have a different thickness at the hub than the Stoptech aluminum hat, and I think that may have come into the picture. It probably isnt' much, but still, it's a factor at these widths.

Other things I took into consideration were camber and camber curve. I know some people aren't huge fans of taller ball joints, but I made the decision when I was a naive, so I'm stuck with what I have. It's just speculation, but maybe the different camber curve helped the tire keep off of the fender.

My next steps are going to be taking the rear wheels (18x12 et 56) and throwing them up front with spacers to see if they clear the strut and the calipers. They're the medium pad wheel centers, so they won't fit over Brembos without a spacer, but with the room measured between wheel and strut, I can mount them closer to the strut andthey will sit farther inboard (maybe 5-10mm--this I need to test) than the current 11.5s. Giving me a
square, rotatable setup with hopefully no more than a 7-12mm spacer up front. A little front fender pull can maybe keep things in check.

Just thinking out loud.

 

[csamsh]

To whoever was wondering about that BMR spherical UCA...I've put it on my car as well, with a spherical in the axle housing also.

It's a great part- power on oversteer is so easy to control, but the combo of two sphericals linking straight from your diff to the backseat is...loud.

great part, but I wouldn't put it on a daily driver

 

[Norm Peterson]

great part, but I wouldn't put it on a daily driver

Which part wouldn't you put on a DD? The UCA or the axle-side spherical?


Norm