2011 V6 --- lightweight corner carver option

[STEVE_POE]

2600 PLUS DRIVER . with me that is 2750

I don't think 2400 is possible. I've got my current car down to 2700 dry but I know I have a few things that could way less in the car and I know of a few spots in the car where some metal is that is not needed

 

[o0Dan0o]

you guys need to keep in mind that the v6 may not be a bad choice. it has a 7k red line. tons more then my 6500 3v which isin't a bad thing. getting 7k out of a 3v is tough without unlaoding the wallet . also 305 285 that is stock, a big gear and a good tune and exhaust and I'm sure it will help it a ton.

The 3v weighs something like 435 lbs dressed. I'm not sure how much the v6 weighs, but given that it's a 4v with giant heads and two extra cams I doubt it weighs much less. Not to mention that 6-speed weighs more than the 5-speed, though the final drive of the 5-speed is useless on the road course. I wonder if the v6 uses the t-6060, could make for some cheap 6-speed conversion kits...

Stock for stock, and mod for mod, I'd take the power under the curve of a v8 that revs to 6500, rather than the peak numbers of a v6 that revs to 7k. After all, it's torque that accelerates you out of a turn.
Dan

 

[STEVE_POE]

Stock for stock, and mod for mod, I'd take the power under the curve of a v8 that revs to 6500, rather than the peak numbers of a v6 that revs to 7k. After all, it's torque that accelerates you out of a turn.
Dan

maybe so , for a track day toy sure I'll buy that . For a all out road race car that runs in a power and torque to weight class I'll hold my opinion. Different tracks for different cars. My theory has been light, big brakes. easy on the tires. vs the big heavy hp cars.

our car races at 3000lbs we are light on hp. on a small technical track that is good. on the big open tracks it's bad.

we are easy on tires and brakes and less maintenance in a build that doesn't require 370 rwhp for a 3500 car

you forgot about dollar for dollar IN YOUR "STOCK FOR STOCK MOD FOR MOD"

 

[o0Dan0o]

That's my point. I'm not familiar with every sanctioning body's rules, but I'm pretty sure NASA AI is 9.5 lb to hp, no limit on torque. So if you have two motors, that are similar in weight and make roughly the same HP, then the one with more torque throughout the power band will likely be the better choice. That's pretty much the 3.7 v6 vs. 4.6 3v v8 in a nutshell, I will be very interested to see a dyno comparison though.

Of course your right, if power to weight is fixed by rule, than, all other things being equal, you want the lighter car. But if the only consideration is power/weight, then a motor that makes more torque down low and the same HP up top is "better" (being very, very general here). I never meant to imply that the more powerful motor is better, but that the 3v, at the same power as the v6, will have better torque.

And lastly, which do you think is going to be cheaper to mod: the brand new v6 that has a limited following and two more cams, or the v8 that has been around in its current form for more than a decade? I imagine for the most part it will be pretty similar, slightly cheaper in some cases for the v6, cheaper in some cases for the 3v.
Dan

 

[STEVE_POE]

That's my point. I'm not familiar with every sanctioning body's rules, but I'm pretty sure NASA AI is 9.5 lb to hp, no limit on torque. So if you have two motors, that are similar in weight and make roughly the same HP, then the one with more torque throughout the power band will likely be the better choice. That's pretty much the 3.7 v6 vs. 4.6 3v v8 in a nutshell, I will be very interested to see a dyno comparison though.

Of course your right, if power to weight is fixed by rule, than, all other things being equal, you want the lighter car. But if the only consideration is power/weight, then a motor that makes more torque down low and the same HP up top is "better" (being very, very general here). I never meant to imply that the more powerful motor is better, but that the 3v, at the same power as the v6, will have better torque.




And lastly, which do you think is going to be cheaper to mod: the brand new v6 that has a limited following and two more cams, or the v8 that has been around in its current form for more than a decade? I imagine for the most part it will be pretty similar, slightly cheaper in some cases for the v6, cheaper in some cases for the 3v.
Dan

agreed the downfall will be tq. it's the big issue I have with it now is the lack of tq. but if that can be fixed in the aftermarket then that changes everything.

american iron 9.5 rwhp
9.1 rwtq

nasa does have a torque limit.

the coyote is all new . nothing from a old 4.6 will work.

design and development costs will be the same for both powerplants. and they are both quad cam engines.

I'm going to say that aftermarket parts costs will be the same.

 

[STEVE_POE]

The 3v weighs something like 435 lbs dressed. I'm not sure how much the v6 weighs, but given that it's a 4v with giant heads and two extra cams I doubt it weighs much less. Not to mention that 6-speed weighs more than the 5-speed, though the final drive of the 5-speed is useless on the road course. I wonder if the v6 uses the t-6060, could make for some cheap 6-speed conversion kits...

Stock for stock, and mod for mod, I'd take the power under the curve of a v8 that revs to 6500, rather than the peak numbers of a v6 that revs to 7k. After all, it's torque that accelerates you out of a turn.
Dan

the 2011 6 and gt are not 6060 trans. gertag is making the new six speeds. my understanding is they are the same box for v6 and gt. gt500. is still tremec

imagine how cheap a six speed is going to be in a couple years

info on the box

The new MT82 manual is designed by Fords JFT joint venture with Getrag in Germany and built in a four-way joint venture plant in China. It features synchromesh on all gears, including Reverse, even in the six-cylinder version. The engineers tell us it is a slick-shifting unit thanks to ball bearings and pivoting shift forks on the shift rails, and there are positive shift stops inside the gearbox.

The box features a middle bulkhead for much better shaft support and a two-piece housing for reduced driveline bending. All gears are honed or ground, then hard-finished for quiet running. The synthetic lube is fill-for-life. Center distance is 82 mm, an insignificant millimeter closer than the out-going Tremec. Weight is 49 kg (108 pounds), and the torque capacity 375 lb-ft.

 

[o0Dan0o]

Is the torque limit new? I've read through that section multiple times, though the last time was probably two years ago. I'm guessing that was added because of the 3v motors? Considering I only have a few NA mods (long tubes) and make ~330 ftlb of torque peak.

Good point, the v6 should fit that fairly neatly stock for a light weight car. It'd pretty hilarious if the car to have in AI became a v6.

The whole time I meant to compare the new v6 vs. the (now) old 3v V8. The 5.0 will likely get new mods faster than the v6 because of the drag racing crowd though, but the expense will likely be similar. I wonder how much power there is to squeeze out of the 3.7...

So the question is, will the bellhousing of the gertag mate to the current 4.6? Since their all mod motors there may be hope.
Dan

 

[pcdrj]

the 2011 6 and gt are not 6060 trans. gertag is making the new six speeds. my understanding is they are the same box for v6 and gt. gt500. is still tremec

imagine how cheap a six speed is going to be in a couple years

info on the box

The new MT82 manual is designed by Fords JFT joint venture with Getrag in Germany and built in a four-way joint venture plant in China. It features synchromesh on all gears, including Reverse, even in the six-cylinder version. The engineers tell us it is a slick-shifting unit thanks to ball bearings and pivoting shift forks on the shift rails, and there are positive shift stops inside the gearbox.

The box features a middle bulkhead for much better shaft support and a two-piece housing for reduced driveline bending. All gears are honed or ground, then hard-finished for quiet running. The synthetic lube is fill-for-life. Center distance is 82 mm, an insignificant millimeter closer than the out-going Tremec. Weight is 49 kg (108 pounds), and the torque capacity 375 lb-ft.

Test drove a GT yesterday and didn't care for the feel of the new trans. Shifting was too notchy and felt like it wanted to pop out of gear under hard acceleration. Definitely prefer TR6060.