A Few Questions of Coyote Gen I Gen II and Trucks.

[LarryJM]

I have a few questions maybe someone can answer.

1. Are Gen I Intake Manifolds exactly the same as Trucks except for color?
2. Do Gen 1 and Gen II have different firing order thus ECUs are not interchangeable?
3. Are Gen II control valves on the Intake Manifold just for Mileage and Emissions?

 

[drive_55_not]

I have a few questions maybe someone can answer.

1. Are Gen I Intake Manifolds exactly the same as Trucks except for color?
There are some differences in the truck intakes but not enough to matter , The F150 intake cams OToH have a different profile and will kill top end, they are a low end torque cam and need to be swapped for a Mustang intake cam.

If you're thinking of using a 2015-2017 intake, That is NOT WORTH the trouble to swap,

You want a GT350 or the 2018 intake.

2. Do Gen 1 and Gen II have different firing order thus ECUs are not interchangeable?
Firing order in the same, not sure why you think it changed.

3. Are Gen II control valves on the Intake Manifold just for Mileage and Emissions?
Pretty much that, and improve low end drivability/torque.

 

[LarryJM]

Thanks. I have read several articles that the GENII Engines have a different firing order. Then Phasers are also different and actually will lock out under some driving conditions.

 

[RED09GT]

Ford did change the firing order of the trucks in 2015 to the traditional 351w/modular firing order 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8. You would need a 2015+ ecu or you could possibly change to mustang cams as they maintained the 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2 firing order.
2015 also brought the mid-lock cam phasers so I would say that the gen I and gen II ecu's are not directly interchangeable. Can it be done? Probably. Would I try it? Probably not.

 

[LarryJM]

It is my understanding that all GEN II and III engines have the revised firing order and not just trucks. Most people on this thread say that's bull crap on trucks or anything else. Now for a trip down the Coyote rabbit hole on what is and is not true. For sure 2013 Boss ECUs are interchangeable for at least some EARLY 2014 Mustang GT's. Then Boss rods can be found in any flex fuel truck and they are about $25 each new.

 

[RED09GT]

https://performanceparts.ford.com/download/PDFS/FPP_Gen_2_Coyote_Technical_Reference_2-16.pdf

The Mustang continues the 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2 firing order for the Gen II.

 

[LarryJM]

https://performanceparts.ford.com/download/PDFS/FPP_Gen_2_Coyote_Technical_Reference_2-16.pdf

The Mustang continues the 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2 firing order for the Gen II.

Which MIGHT mean only trucks have that firing order.

 

[RocketcarX]

Why do you keep asking questions and refusing the answers?

 

[LarryJM]

Why do you keep asking questions and refusing the answers?

Because I am interested in the right answers. It seems at least one Coyote engine has the 351W firing order and it may or may not be in a truck which may or may not have Boss rods depending if it is or is not Flex Fuel.

 

[skwerl]

Just goes to show the massive outflow of knowledge on this board. A few years ago you could get dozens of very smart people giving detailed answers on the then-current 3v setups. But the 3v hasn't been made in 8 or 9 years now. Most of the remaining guys still held on to their 3v cars. Some of us have bought Coyotes but I for one pretty much quit any modding. I had my fill when I totaled my $70K Bullitt.

If I wanted info on a Coyote engine I sure the fuck wouldn't be asking on an old 3v Mustang forum. I'm sure there are good forums focusing on the Coyotes in both the Mustangs and the pickups, but this isn't one of them.

 

[tjm73]

All Coyote Mustangs have the same firing order through the the current model year. All '15 and up truck Coyotes are 302HO/351W/4.6 firing order. All rods starting in '15 are the same as BOSS rods regardless of car, truck or flex fuel status.

I have read that the 1st gen truck intake is the same as the Mustang with the tabs to hold the Mustangs cover on top. The power difference is the cams, tune and compression.

FRPP says you can't use the control pack on the F150 engines starting in '15. But you can change to Mustang cams and run it or your tuner can change the firing order in the ECU, I have heard.

 

[LarryJM]

Just goes to show the massive outflow of knowledge on this board. A few years ago you could get dozens of very smart people giving detailed answers on the then-current 3v setups. But the 3v hasn't been made in 8 or 9 years now. Most of the remaining guys still held on to their 3v cars. Some of us have bought Coyotes but I for one pretty much quit any modding. I had my fill when I totaled my $70K Bullitt.

If I wanted info on a Coyote engine I sure the fuck wouldn't be asking on an old 3v Mustang forum. I'm sure there are good forums focusing on the Coyotes in both the Mustangs and the pickups, but this isn't one of them.

TELL ME ABOUT IT!!!!!!!!!

 

[drive_55_not]

Because I am interested in the right answers. It seems at least one Coyote engine has the 351W firing order and it may or may not be in a truck which may or may not have Boss rods depending if it is or is not Flex Fuel.

After I posted I did stumble onto the revised firing order for the Coyote powered trucks,, It's actually noted in the 2015 F150 owners manual,

http://www.fordservicecontent.com/F...&div=f&vFilteringEnabled=False&userMarket=USA

I've not kept up with what goes on with the F150 motors as there's zero reason to put one in a Mustang, it's a lower compression [10.5:1], lower power and revving little brother, Perfectly fine for Coyote swap into something other than a late model Mustang ...

Even the Gen1 S197 boards have started drying up, hard to believe that platform is almost 5yrs dead and people have moved onto the S550's.

Which I am about to, too. But still plan on turning my 3v into a TT grudge car.


.

 

[RED09GT]

I've not kept up with what goes on with the F150 motors as there's zero reason to put one in a Mustang, it's a lower compression [10.5:1], lower power and revving little brother, Perfectly fine for Coyote swap into something other than a late model Mustang ...

.

How so? A half point of compression might lose 1.5% of power and an intake cam swap is pretty basic. Sounds like a pretty good deal when you can buy the engine for 1/2 the price of a mustang one.

 

[drive_55_not]

How so? A half point of compression might lose 1.5% of power and an intake cam swap is pretty basic. Sounds like a pretty good deal when you can buy the engine for 1/2 the price of a mustang one.

My reference was to a full long block swap. I told myself I'd stay away from the 'Boss Longblock' discussions, but the truck motors are not Boss anything .......

Yes as long you swap Mustang heads onto the truck shortblock or do the cam swap you'll not lose that much.

I'm not sure what Larry is wanting to know swapping the PCM's between the models either, again no reason to swap unless your's failed and then you'd need to flash the replacement with the correct strategy for your year model.

..

 

[RocketcarX]

The insides of the engine didn't change to accommodate a new firing order, the parts remain 100% interchangeable. The pistons still move up in down inside the block exactly the same way, the crank shaft is exactly the same.

 

[RED09GT]

Mustang GT and F150 heads are the same for the same model years.

Yes as long you swap Mustang heads onto the truck shortblock or do the cam swap you'll not lose that much.

I'm out, this thread is too much effort for nothing.

 

[LarryJM]

Well we did go from no firing order change to a firing order change. Truck or otherwise, at least that is something. Then if in fact Boss part number rods were used in pre 2015 flex fuel trucks as the parts interchange book says, you have a Boss short block already for some Boss heads to be added.

 

[RocketcarX]

Well we did go from no firing order change to a firing order change. Truck or otherwise, at least that is something. Then if in fact Boss part number rods were used in pre 2015 flex fuel trucks as the parts interchange book says, you have a Boss short block already for some Boss heads to be added.

It might help your case if you stated the intended goal of these discussions instead of asking seemingly random questions and arguing with people for no apparent reason. It's off putting and you come across like a troll.

 

[LarryJM]

It might help your case if you stated the intended goal of these discussions instead of asking seemingly random questions and arguing with people for no apparent reason. It's off putting and you come across like a troll.

Well there must be over 1000 post on this forum to make comments on. So what is it to you??? Surely it's not to save band width.