aerodynamics

[pieperz06]

so there relay has never been much talk on aerodynamics here relating to spoilers and splitters and things of that nature.

any thoughts on it? kinda been wondering how much they would help after this last track event

 

[Philostang]

I love thinking about aerodynamics, and in another year or so I'll have some stuff developed to start some trial runs.

This is my hobby and as such I love to tinker for the shear pleasure I get out of modding and fabricating - but I'm mindful that this is precisely what we're talking about: "tinkering." I think that if you're really looking to advance speed as a result of a recent track event, chances are very high that your money (and focus) is better spent elsewhere. We're all here mostly just as amateur enthusiasts, which is to say we're well below the point where we really need to start seriously focusing on things like aero.

I think I've formed this opinion by being smoked by folks without aerodynamic devices in our exact same chassis (no FI either). They're either just better drivers or have better sorted out their basic set up. Add to that the fact that I have personally smoked the heck out of cars far more aerodynamically blessed than our cars. And then add to that the fact that the FR500S is a pretty high bar set for our chassis, and its aero devices are pretty simple: a front splitter (well done) and a matching single-element rear wing. No belly pans, no side skirts, no diffuser, no canards, nothing else...and the damn things are fast as hell.

To be clear, I'd be happy as pie to hear folks chime in on aero suggestions and experience, but I'm also curious as to their thoughts on the real value and need for such things.

Best,
-j

FWIW, I recently added a very serious aerodynamic device...Agent47 mirrors! I'm sure I've picked up 3-4 seconds at Putnam.

 

[pcdrj]

I'm using my left hand out the window to create down force. Next track day my dog will be coming along to balance the aero with his patented lip spoiler.

 

[SoundGuyDave]

I'm using my left hand out the window to create down force. Next track day my dog will be coming along to balance the aero with his patented lip spoiler.

And the drool dispenser usually slows down the competition...

 

[AJ]

I honestly don't know much on this matter, but from a outsiders POV I think we drive shoeboxes that can't be too aerodynamic.

 

[pcdrj]

I do think a decent lip spoiler and a vented hood would help. Reducing under hood temps are always a plus but it also can improve front bite on turn in by eliminating some lift. Problem is most hoods are heavier than your stock aluminum one. Tiger racing has an 8# carbon fiber lift off for $1300. Another option is putting louvers on a stock hood which can be picked up fairly cheap.

I purchased a GT500 front lip spoiler and began modifying it to fit. Unfortunately, I'm running an Revan Racing radiator which causes the front bumper cover and belly pan to bulge too far to make this fitment work.

 

[fdjizm]

You would have to mount a spoiler about 6 inches above the top of the roof for it to be functional. ever seen that wind tunnel thing? the air stream doesn't get anywhere near the stock wing it's like a foot up after rolling off the roof lol

 

[Kankakee]

I wonder if the vortex generators, like the agent 47 ones antonion on here has.

I just ordered the APR carbon fiber front air dam, though.

 

[Sleeper_08]

I've been told by a fellow who ran Solo events that on a high speed track a tall rear wing helps keep the back end down,i.e. Mosport where you approach 140 MPH.

The problem is it makes the car look like a rice rocket and attracts way too much attention on the street from people you don't want to attract attention from.

I my memory is correct on the front he was running a CDC Classic spoiler.

 

[SoundGuyDave]

A quick LINK to the FR500S aero package data from Ford Racing... The stuff works, but like anything else, it works as a system, not necessarily well individually. Remember, that you need to start with a good-handling car, and that the aero bits only come into play at higher speeds. If you push on turn-in on low-speed corners, adding just a rear wing will only make it worse at higher speeds.

 

[Philostang]

Hah! Dave beat me to the FR500S data post. +1 to what he said about it, and I'll add one small observation (maybe two).

First, just to reinforce, look at the 80mph data. You're seeing a mild amount of LIFT on the front and about 50 lbs of downforce at the rear. We all know how significant 50 lbs is in the winter, when we (used to?) throw bags of whatever in the trunk to help us in the snow. Still, you don't see the real payoffs until the 120 mph data comes in.

Second, notice the front again. Even at 120 mph what you're seeing there is basically a neutral situation (canceling out of lift/downforce). I'm interpreting this in two ways. One: the actual device up front (in this case a genuine full-size front splitter) is (on it's own) likely providing more downforce than shown, but you don't get a measurement of it because its real function is counteracting the cantilever effect of the rear wing. Two: the device up front is not the air dam/chin spoiler, but the full front splitter, which provides its magic according to the Bernoulli principle. Punchline: a little front chin spoiler as is so frequently marketed and put on our cars is not going to provide squat in terms of aero efficiency. It does, however, help you move the air around to places of your preference - like funnel it into the radiator/intercooler area and a bit further around the front tires.

I would like to see data on hood vents and maybe functional fender ducts. Killing two birds with one stone is always nice...even if the other bird is just a hatchling (read: I suspect that the cooling advantage is likely the big bird).

Last note: AJ's "shoebox" observation is probably right on. The FR500S is pretty damn bad, but the baddest of the bad (in our basic body, since we're only talking aero here) are the Speed World Challenge Mustangs. Look at all they did to the body, full front splitter, rear wing, side skirts, (I'm betting) full belly pan, diffuser, hood vents, but no canards or vortex generators. Add to this the super-wide body kit and its ultra-low stance, and you have the makings of almost all we can do with our shoeboxes.

Best,
-j

 

[fdjizm]

Sweet

 

[STEVE_POE]

I have seen wind tunnel data from 05 up mustangs that I really wasn't suppose to see but was shown and told not to disclose whos car it is. It had several tests done with aero, no aero, wings , no wings, shimmed trunk lids, shimmed hoods, mirrors on and off the car. hundreds of different tests.

Aero does matter but as mentioned can you drive to the ability of making it work or do you know what the hell your adjusting to even know if it's doing any good ? keep in mind by adding aero to any part your now changing shock spring packages.

you run a 250lb rear spring with no wing and then put a huge ass wing on the back you better be changing shocks setting and spring rates to adjust for it.

tip, leave your inner fender wells in the front of your car.

 

[STEVE_POE]

Sweet

does anyone have any tech on this car? website or other info ?

 

[Philostang]

I have seen wind tunnel data from 05 up mustangs that I really wasn't suppose to see but was shown and told not to disclose whos car it is. It had several tests done with aero, no aero, wings , no wings, shimmed trunk lids, shimmed hoods, mirrors on and off the car. hundreds of different tests.


tip, leave your inner fender wells in the front of your car.

Oh, you dirty-dirty man...what a teaser. Now we're talking!

So...any other tips? I don't need/care to know whose car it is, I just want the insight. Details man! Details! At least I for one am on pins and needles...

If I can put in a request: belly pan and rear diffuser - any word? How about side skirts and rear diffuser? Anything...throw us a bone!

 

[STEVE_POE]

all the wind testing was done with grand am legality in mind. Since grand am doesn't allow belly pans , diffusers and all I have nothing like that.

just basics basically.

sorry to dissapoint.

Oh, you dirty-dirty man...what a teaser. Now we're talking!

So...any other tips? I don't need/care to know whose car it is, I just want the insight. Details man! Details! At least I for one am on pins and needles...

If I can put in a request: belly pan and rear diffuser - any word? How about side skirts and rear diffuser? Anything...throw us a bone!

 

[foolio2k4]

Thats the acs express mustang. This is their spec sheet they had at the LA auto show.

 

[Philostang]

Did you happen to get any good shots of the rear - I'd love to see what that IRS rear looks like and what kind of aero they're up to in the lower back.

And I could have sworn I saw a higher hp figure for it...? Maybe their playing it close to their chest.

 

[pieperz06]

And I could have sworn I saw a higher hp figure for it...? Maybe their playing it close to their chest.

what racer doesn't lol

and i must say this thread got pretty interesting quick

 

[foolio2k4]

yeah i was really curious to see what the IRS looked like. The cars so damn low my camera couldnt pick it up. It has a flat diffuser at the back so it covers the IRS. Its definately impressive stuff.