Cortex Racing Kit?

[JesseW.]

since its designed to fit a 315 rear wheel i do not think the coilover mounts where the shock mounts. it would make a lot more since if it mounted in where the spring is on the axle and body and has a few bolts and a top plate mount you have to drill for to hold it in place on the body and another mount you weld to the axle spring perch. anyone have any install instructions?

::edit:: just found a pic. looks like they have a bolt in upper mount that would go where the spring is and a weld on bracket for the axle .

 

[jmauld]

Someone call ford racing and ask them if this part requires the use of a roll cage.

http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=10422

 

[jmauld]

since its designed to fit a 315 rear wheel i do not think the coilover mounts where the shock mounts. it would make a lot more since if it mounted in where the spring is on the axle and body and has a few bolts and a top plate mount you have to drill for to hold it in place on the body and another mount you weld to the axle spring perch. anyone have any install instructions?

::edit:: just found a pic. looks like they have a bolt in upper mount that would go where the spring is and a weld on bracket for the axle .

I'm fairly sure that mounts in the place of the factory shock.

 

[5.0_SD]

Aha...I looked at the Xtreme-Grip Suspension Package....from the website at
http://www.cortexracing.com/store/suspension/2005-2012-mustang/xtreme-grip-street/

Xtreme-Grip Suspension- Street Package Includes:​

• Xtreme-Grip Struts with Koni inserts and Rear Coil over Shock with Springs
• Kit comprised of single adjustable, “custom valved” struts and Koni rear coilover dampers with matching springs.
• Spring rates specified by CorteX Racing, but customizable to suit driving style.
  • Optional- offset strut housings for fitment of 18 x 10.5 wheels & 315mm wide tires.
• Camber plates set allowing at least +/-2.5 degrees adjustment.
• Bump stops- Struts include integrated bump stops
• Rear lower control arm bracket set that optimizes suspension geometry at lowered ride height
  • 2”+ lower than OEM
• Rear tubular lower control arms w/ heim joints & angle-correction spacers at both ends (Set).
  • Poly Mounts are standard on Xtreme-Grip Street System
• Rear shock mounts – rear upper and lower shock mount
  • allowing fitment of 18 x 10.5 rear wheels & 315mm wide tires.
• Watts Link package – adjustable, light weight, yet extremely durable.
• CorteX’s revolutionary differential cover incorporates the watts pivot mount as well as provision for a differential cooler and temperature sensor.
• Fast adjustment of the rear roll center has made balancing the car easier than ever.

Options:

• Double adjustable struts (+$299)
• Offset strut housings for 315mm tires for front (+$99)
• Torque Arm (+$799) (requires exhaust modifications)
• Adjustable ARB End links (+$159)
• Bump Steer Adjustment Kit (+$149)
• Eibach F&R ARB set (+$425)

Now I just have to figure out which options I would want in addition to the base kit!
Hmmm...I wonder if it will fit a Forgestar CF5 18x11 with 335's in the rear...and holy ****, 315 on the front!

Mods, apologies in advance if I wasn't supposed to copy and paste...remove if necessary

 

[faust]

I've seen a lot of discussion about if the upper factory shock mount is strong enough to mount coil overs to. The answer is yes! As proof, I would point to the fact that Ford has been mounting the coil overs on all of there S197 race cars with coil overs that way since 2005. People have been mounting coil overs to that location without a cage for just as long. If you've ever looked at the Ford mount it is quite beefy and I have never heard to any failure to date. Looking at the CorteX bracket it has a large surface area that loads the mounting point the way it was intended.

 

[JAJ]

...However, think about the hit the shock mount takes during a high speed, sharp impact, especially if the spring is extended (as is often the case during suspension travel). The velocity of the damper shaft is high during the initial hit before the spring forces ramp up, and depending on compression settings, that damper is approaching the stiffness of a solid bar, i.e. incredibly high forces compared to even the max spring forces...

How much force the damper transmits to the mount is a function of the damper curve shape. To soften the ride, most OEM (and race) dampers have a blow-off type of valving that opens under high loads and bypasses the fluid past the piston, keeping the peak load down. What the peak load would be is something I couldn't guess. However, substitute a nice soft OEM damper with a racing damper and stiff springs and the load on the mount will inevitably be higher than the range that the manufacturer designed for.

If I were going to put in a coil-over rear end, I'd look at buying or fabricating an x-in-a-box-brace that would tie to the floor and frame at the bottom and to the upper shock mounts at the top. Then you'd have all the strength you need.

 

[trakhoar]

I've seen a lot of discussion about if the upper factory shock mount is strong enough to mount coil overs to. The answer is yes! As proof, I would point to the fact that Ford has been mounting the coil overs on all of there S197 race cars with coil overs that way since 2005. People have been mounting coil overs to that location without a cage for just as long. If you've ever looked at the Ford mount it is quite beefy and I have never heard to any failure to date. Looking at the CorteX bracket it has a large surface area that loads the mounting point the way it was intended.

yeap, Ill admit I was skeptical as well, but the FR500 race cars use the same mount, as do the griggs S197 cars...so its fair to assume those are beat on much more than your avg enthusiast/track day hero will.

 

[jmauld]

The fr500 has a rollcage that most likely ties into this mount.

 

[Cheyne]

My car has the same basic cage as the FR500 and Boss 302r and the rear shock mount area is boxed. I don't have a picture, but when Rehegan put in the cage the rear is boxed and the down tube and a cross tube both go to it. We use Penske shocks and they use the same type of bracket to put them in.

These are like the ones I'm using except mine are threaded bodied. T&A Shocks made the brackets and did the shocks.

 

[faust]

If you are already doing a cage then you might as well reinforce the shock mount area. But I repeat, you will not have any problems with the factory mounting pad if you use well designed shock mounts such as the Cortex or Ford Racing units.

 

[jymontoya]

I just installed this kit on my '08 Bullitt for track duty this season.

Filip Trojanek (Owner of Cortex Racing) is brilliantly helpful and easy to work with. Before I purchased the kit, I had a lot of questions, and concerns. Most have been covered in this thread. Without going into a full report, which I will after some track time in two weeks... The kit is very well thought through and the installation instructions were TOP NOTCH. The rear upper coilover mount has an L shape to it that helps share some of the load to the vertical sheet metal beside the shock mount hole. The front struts have provisions for the sway bar, brake lines, and abs wire... Very easy and straight forward installation. Can't wait to get it on the track.

If you've got any other questions, let me know. I'll also be sharing some track video from the upcoming season.

Here's Cortex's web album showcasing some of their work and racing: https://picasaweb.google.com/102238046544191725125

 

[5.0_SD]

Looking forward to hearing your results jy...
Do you strictly drive your Bullitt on the track or do you drive it on the streets as well? If on streets too, how's the street drivabilty?

 

[Sam Strano]

Look this is where things will get sticky when I say what I have to say....

I spend a lot of time on the phone with a guy running those parts, and I had to explain that just because something is different, doesn't make it right. The prime example of issues I have with that kit. Neither damper is a Mustang part. They are made to fit the Mustang, but both are generic race shocks. The fellow I was talking to finally took up the idea for him to put his previous rear shocks on and he called me back last night to tell me that the car was much better.

I make some of my own parts too. I've got a pretty good track record results wise. I could whip up some whiz-bang custom part and run a setup based around that.. but I have no reason to do it. I do make swaybars not because mine are radical but because it wasn't hard to get adjustable bars for both ends, that were hollow, and the fact I could make them exactly what I wanted was good too.

That is in reality a Ground Control kit. Griggs and Cortex sell it too under their name. Personally I feel you a number of better options, both on price, and performance.

And, fwiw... I ran 315's on my car on 10.5's too.

 

[STEVE_POE]

The fr500c and s both use a eyebolt rear design shock mount.

this .
http://fordracingparts123.com/index...ducts_id=258&zenid=t0tmaq446rs7v1no2fd067j9m6

I run a moton triple coilover and have never had a problem with either end of the shock mounting points.

I have started boxing the rear shock mounts though.

 

[foolio2k4]

their watts link looks like a great kit.

Might have to pick that up soon.

 

[jymontoya]

Look this is where things will get sticky when I say what I have to say....

I spend a lot of time on the phone with a guy running those parts, and I had to explain that just because something is different, doesn't make it right. The prime example of issues I have with that kit. Neither damper is a Mustang part. They are made to fit the Mustang, but both are generic race shocks. The fellow I was talking to finally took up the idea for him to put his previous rear shocks on and he called me back last night to tell me that the car was much better.

I make some of my own parts too. I've got a pretty good track record results wise. I could whip up some whiz-bang custom part and run a setup based around that.. but I have no reason to do it. I do make swaybars not because mine are radical but because it wasn't hard to get adjustable bars for both ends, that were hollow, and the fact I could make them exactly what I wanted was good too.

That is in reality a Ground Control kit. Griggs and Cortex sell it too under their name. Personally I feel you a number of better options, both on price, and performance.

And, fwiw... I ran 315's on my car on 10.5's too.

Track vs. Street

I think it's important we keep the context clear here. This suspension was designed for the track first, and should be judged as such. Any street 'feel' complaints are largely subjective, and while most could be mitigated by swapping softer springs, the large number of rod ends in this kit are going to increase the NVH no matter what you do.

Since when are custom valved race dampers a bad thing? When used on the street, they are going to be 'tighter', but certainly not unlivable. I have quite enjoyed them so far. Sam, you have stated many times that dampers are the most important part of the suspension. I agree. Race teams agree. If you're going to be spending a lot of time on the track, buying the best shocks you can afford will go a long way. I also got the shock dyno plots included from Cortex too. I also had a friend who runs Kinetic Motorsports check them out on their shock dyno, to see if they needed to be tweaked at all. They didn't. Great match! If your spending the time on the track and the money on race shocks, you should already know that they need to be put on the shock dyno to get the most out of them. They're higher maintenance, but everything used on the track is going to be. If your customer had trouble with his shocks from Cortex, I suspect he just threw parts at the car without fully understanding their purpose. All he had to do was call Filip, day or night, he's always been available for me.

Sam, I will agree that this kit is more than what most people need from some good ole' Konis and high rate springs (Sport springs are not high rate). The kit is definitely more hard core than anything short of a Griggs SLA or Agent47 SLA. My goals to use the car for Time Trials probably supersedes what most people will ever use their car for. How many people are going beyond AutoX to do some real track time? Much less using real race tires???

This kit is not really designed for daily drivers who sometimes go to the track. More for track cars that sometimes go on the street. It's certainly streetable, but you've got to start making bigger compromises when it comes to this level of setup. I personally have no problems with the way it feels on the street, with 450# F and 250# R. Will wait until I get some track time to decide where to go from there. And that's what's brilliant about the adjustability of this kit. Easily changing the spring rates and rear roll center to fine tune the suspension. I still think Sam has the best options when it comes to sway bars, and after I get a baseline with the stock bars, I'll be looking more into them.

The fronts on this kit utilize Ground Control camber plates, those and the threaded bodies are the only thing from Ground control. The rest is all Cortex. Pretty far from a rebranded Ground Control kit if you ask me. Funny, Shelby is going to be rebranding this Cortex kit, and call it their new track pack. It's also the new 'spec' suspension for a new SCCA class coming this year. I don't know much about SCCA, as a NASA guy, so you'll have to call Filip for more info there. Everyone who regularly spends time at the track, and talking to racers is going to start seeing a lot more from Cortex to be sure.

 

[JAJ]

...I also had a friend who runs Kinetic Motorsports check them out on their shock dyno, to see if they needed to be tweaked at all. They didn't. Great match! If your spending the time on the track and the money on race shocks, you should already know that they need to be put on the shock dyno to get the most out of them...

With respect, I'd like to ask what this means. What were the shocks a great match to? I've built three suspensions out of parts and along the way I concluded that if you didn't have data acquisition on the suspension or a multi-post shaker rig, that shock dyno plots couldn't tell you whether your shocks were set right or not. A dyno can match them to each other, but they both might be wrong for the application.

It sounds like that's not your experience, and I'm interested to know more.

 

[908ssp]

Springs are matched to cars, damping rates are matched to springs. If the springs are controlled by the shock within a predefined parameter they can be tested to see if they fulfill the requirement of that spring. When damping is adjusted at the track according to data it is usually an attempt to compensate for the wrong spring or to achieve some specific goal outside the normal parameters of controlling the springs with damping.

 

[jymontoya]

With respect, I'd like to ask what this means. What were the shocks a great match to? I've built three suspensions out of parts and along the way I concluded that if you didn't have data acquisition on the suspension or a multi-post shaker rig, that shock dyno plots couldn't tell you whether your shocks were set right or not. A dyno can match them to each other, but they both might be wrong for the application.

It sounds like that's not your experience, and I'm interested to know more.

This!

Springs are matched to cars, damping rates are matched to springs. If the springs are controlled by the shock within a predefined parameter they can be tested to see if they fulfill the requirement of that spring. When damping is adjusted at the track according to data it is usually an attempt to compensate for the wrong spring or to achieve some specific goal outside the normal parameters of controlling the springs with damping.

They have a bunch of different programs based on the variety of spring rates they run on the cars they campaign. (KIA, BMW, Porsche)

It's certainly not the best method for me, but without expensive on board data collection, it's a fine start. I really just wanted a benchmark and go from there to focus on my driving. Once I feel my driving has begun to plateau again, I'll revisit any mechanical changes.

 

[5.0_SD]

jy...forgot to ask you this, what wheel size/tire size are you running w/ the cortex set up?