Coyote Swap Intel Summary

Discussion in 'Hardcore Tech=*MOTOR SWAPS*' started by Nutter281, May 14, 2016.

  1. Nutter281

    Nutter281 forum member

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    Separate from mine and other threads that are more qualitative discussion of coyote swap process and progress, the purpose of this thread is just a collection of FAQs/information related to the coyote swap. There is disbursed information all over the internet but not well consolidated. I will keep the top-most posted edited with any new information or new questions that need to be answered.

    Unanswered questions are labeled in bold as: New_Question: Anyone who knows the answer, please respond and I will add the answer back into the top-post. Similarly, if there are other unanswered questions, ask them in a new post and I'll add them to the top.

    As a starting point, all of the information below is derived from Lito's coyote swap thread - with just a bit of paraphrasing to keep it concise.


    -------------- S197 Coyote Swap FAQ Page --------------------------------

    On Gauges
    • Lito used stock instrument cluster from the 07
    • 2011+ gauges will not fit without modification; plugs are also different

    Q: What was done to get the tachometer to work?
    Lito: just connect CAN bus
    Only 3 of the Instrument Cluster gauges are PCM-dependent – RPM, Speedometer, and ECT.
    The Instrument Cluster is likely the most important piece of the CANBUS network moreso than the PCM and it acts as a bridge between controllers which is why it makes sense to leave the 07 Instrument Cluster installed.


    Q: Does the speedometer work?
    Lito: Not as of now. Coyote’s OSS is 3 wire and our cars are 2 wire. Need to test that but I think it will not be an PCM-IC link issue but an OSS sensor instead, don't know if we are going to get it working or how if we do yet but we are going to try.
    Later on Lito wrote: Most of the wiring is done. Speedo works, will have a video by wednesday.


    New_Question: What was done to get the speedometer working from previous?

    Power Steering and AC Options:

    Power Steering

    1.) Maintain existing hydraulic power steering

    • Power By The Hour Relocation kit
    Pros: Maintains stock hydraulic steering pump and AC position allowing them to be bolted to the Coyote block. Rotates alternator 180 degrees. Can be configured to work with VMP and Roush supercharger systems.
    Cons: Less flexible for other brands of supercharger additions.

    • Ford Racing Boss 302R Power Steering Pump Bracket
    Pros: Relatively cheap bracket maintains existing hydraulic power steering support
    Cons: Mounts in the location of the AC compressor

    2.) Convert to 2011+ EPAS system
    Requires a 2011+ K-member, along with tuning correction for the EPAS in the control pack PCM


    Air Conditioning System

    1.) Use Power By The Hour Kit with existing 2005-2010 AC compressor

    2.) switch to 2011+ AC Compressor and lines.

    Lito: A/C is complicated as both systems differ a lot, modded some stuff in the calibration to make it work but has no pressure control so won't be used for now waiting on some parts I have to order from Ford to test a solution
    Later…
    Lito: AC issues have been solved by changing something in the calibration to delete the pressure sensor and route the clutch activation line thru a relay that works with the stock pressure switches, we have AC cycling as expected and all.


    New_Question: If staying with the 2005-2009 AC using the PBH relocation brackets, is any calibration required? Is the AC controlled by the PCM or IC?

    Return-style fuel system

    Lito: for now, stock pump hat modified for return with aeromotive regulator at the firewall.

    Austin: To clarify on this one, my understanding is this:
    Return-less fuel delivery uses PWM (pulse width modulation) to control the duty cycle of the DC fuel pump and maintain a quasi-constant fuel rail pressure.
    Return-style fuel delivery uses a DC fuel pump always at 100% duty cycle (i.e. 100% PWM) with a mechanical pressure regulator that allows excess fuel pressure to bypass back into the fuel tank via a return line. My understanding has always been (and it seems Lito’s statement confirms), transitioning the S197 into a return-style fuel system should be as simple as installing a fuel pressure regulator, return fuel line, and removing the PWM wire from the existing fuel pump. Like all DC motors, the absence of a pulse-width modulation signal should just leave the pump running at 100% duty cycle all the time.

    New_Question: Any flaw to the above logic? Lito is this what you did?


    Later Lito wrote: Forgot to add, need to test wiring so fuel pump would prime and stop.
    New_Question: Other than removing the PWM signal to the fuel pump, what wiring was required to get the fuel pump to prime/stop?

    Transmission

    - The FRPP coyote control pack is designed to work with a manual transmission and includes clutch-pedal position sensors.
    - The 5.0 coyote will mate up to the 3650 transmission but will need a flywheel/clutch solution to mate up with the 11-spline input shaft.

    New_Question: Lito – initially you ran with the 3650 – what flywheel and clutch did you use that had the 11-spline input required for the 3650 transmission?

    Q: Is there anyway to get the 2011+ auto trans working?
    Lito: Initially I don't see why not but you will need someone that know his way with wires and electrical upgrades, I would do it without getting the control pack as the PCM would not work, you would need all the harnesses that go to the PCM and mix wiring with the stock you have.

    Lingering Feature Functionality

    Lito: Everything is working in the car, except the traction control, made some calibration changes so the EVAP would work

    New_Question: Sounds like ABS works fine? In the absence of traction control working, is the IC panel light for traction control lit up and is there a way to disable it?
     
  2. Kidd

    Kidd forum member

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  3. Kidd

    Kidd forum member

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  4. ROUSH06GA

    ROUSH06GA forum member

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    I have a coyote swap 06 running a custom turbo and efi. Using pbh brackets for ac and power steering. Ic works (all gauges) but the battery light stays on. No tcs and my abs works fine. I'm not using the frpp control pack. If you need anymore info just ask.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2016
  5. 07graygt

    07graygt forum member

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    .
    What ecm are you using? I'm going to be using a Holley. It would be nice if I could use the factory gauges.
     
  6. ROUSH06GA

    ROUSH06GA forum member

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    Im using holley dominator, does not let you control the vct, they are suppose to be working on updating so you can have full control of vct but its not out yet and the factory gauges work.
     
  7. 07graygt

    07graygt forum member

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    Are you using a return fuel system?
     
  8. lito

    lito forum member

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    The MT-82 uses a 3-wire Hall sensor and most of the other manual or auto uses a simple two wire reluctor, need to connect the reluctor as it is connected on an auto PCM (One signal ground and pin 14 of T PCM connector)

    No need to do anything PCM wise, just connect EPAS to CAN HS.


    In later Ford there are basically two AC control systems, in all, the A/C clutch relay is controlled by the PCM no matter what compressor you use.

    Both systems use a high pressure sensor and a low pressure sensor (cycling sensor). The difference is that some use an actual manometer at the high pressure area and the other just a pressure switch. 3V GTs use the second, Coyotes use the first. Control pack PCM is set to the second by default but you can change that in the calibration to disable this and use the stock 3V GTs pressure switches combined by the PCM relay activation pin. We just wired this relay activation pin thru both pressure switches (need to check 3V wiring) so the clutch activates when both high and low pressures are within pressure switch settings and the PCM commands the A/C relay. Coyote PCM sees CAN data for A/C requests.

    Just need a typical return system, the Coyote strategy uses a non-vac referenced return system (in-tank return and in-hat pressure regulator) (it manages an estimated pressure with flow to compensate the vac-less layout) the control pack strategy still uses this, if you go with an external regulator that is vac referenced need to adjust this on the calibration.

    Now, on the priming, right now I don't recall what we did here, I would need to go check notes. We got it working, we use a stock 3V fuel hat, added a return line to it and also another inline walbro when we went boosted. System primes and stop on key on. We are using stock coyote rails but aftermarket lines with adapters and an aeromotive regulator, vac referenced.

    3650 is 10 spline, different splines will affect clutches not the engine, coyote engine is designed for typical modular transmission pattern so you can use any transmission that you could mate with a modular. Stock coyote clutch is 23 spline, car has a Magnum T56 now with a dual 26spline clutch, all this with stock coyote flywheel.

    You could grab an auto combo (engine/trans) with an auto PCM with harness and combine with your current car body harness and have a coyote auto PCM, biggest limitation for this was the PATS but Eric Brooks got that covered with HP. Word of advice, I haven't done this but for what I've seen so far, seems to be doable.

    Yes ABS works fine, TCS not and my guess is because there are some incompatibilities between new PCM and old ABS module for TCS to work (which is used for TCS) hence it gets disabled by default, both lights are on, easy solution with some black electric tape behind the IC front template (no marks, looks like it has never had it)
     
  9. ROUSH06GA

    ROUSH06GA forum member

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    Yes, dual aeromotive pumps, bigger fuel lines, aeromotive regulator and fuel rails
     
  10. ksack

    ksack forum member

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    Looking at swapping a 2011+ powertrain into my ranger and carrying over as much stuff as possible (ie full dash swap). For things like ABS, traction control, SRS, airbags, etc, can I just disconnect those harnesses and the computer will ignore them or will it throw me a bunch of codes? I know for the airbags you can spoof it with some resistors, but can you do those for systems that will throw codes at you? I know the FRPP control pack would be easier but I don't want just the powertrain
     
  11. Cire

    Cire Junior Member

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    Hi all,

    Im running into a stalling issue when coming to a stop. To my understanding this may be due to the OSS not communicating to the PCM. Could you tell me what pinouts does the MT82 OSS connect to on the Ford Racing control pack module? I don't see it within the control pack pinouts.

    Here are the specs of my swap:

    1966 Mustang
    2012 Coyote motor with MT82 trans
    Ford Racing Control pack
    Custom intake with MAF located near the filter

    Thanks in advance for your help!

    -cire
     
  12. lito

    lito forum member

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  13. Cire

    Cire Junior Member

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    Thanks Lito!!
     
  14. Rpm427sc

    Rpm427sc forum member

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    I'm in the middle of a BOSS 302 swap into my 2010 GT and I'm at the point of wiring up the FRPP Control pack.

    Lito: Do you have any detailed instructions on how to physically wire the control pack up so the A/C works? I called Ford Racing Support and they told me that the kit wasn't intended to be used with A/C but I did notice the AC in and out are "double crimped" and taped back on the harness. The install guide doesn't mention any of this. Would you be able to share some info?

    I also saw ford racing released a control pack for the 2015 crate engine, that is set up to plug right into an A/C system. Does anyone know of a reason why this control pack wouldn't work with my engine, with the proper tune?

    Also, on the PBTH ACC mounting kit, the instructions say it can be used with 2010 alternator, but it can't. The mounting tabs are not equal length and the pulley was way to close to the timing cover. I ended up using one from a 98 Cobra, and still had to clearance the timing cover where the bracket mounts to in order for the belt to not rub against it.
     
  15. Rpm427sc

    Rpm427sc forum member

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    Can anyone chime in on the A/C wiring issue?
     
  16. Phansm72

    Phansm72 forum member

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  17. lito

    lito forum member

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    No, I have no detailed instructions, our cars uses pressure switches, so I cahnged the AC mode in the PCM disabling the pressure sensor so it will only cut ground to the clutch at WOT and routed the activation ground for the clutch thru the stock press switches (both) and works perfectly. Instead of telling the PCM the status of the switches, they manage the signal directly.
     
  18. PattyPatch

    PattyPatch Junior Member

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    0
    -------------- S197 Coyote Swap FAQ Page --------------------------------

    On Gauges
    • Lito used stock instrument cluster from the 07
    • 2011+ gauges will not fit without modification; plugs are also different

    Q: What was done to get the tachometer to work?
    Lito: just connect CAN bus
    Only 3 of the Instrument Cluster gauges are PCM-dependent – RPM, Speedometer, and ECT.
    The Instrument Cluster is likely the most important piece of the CANBUS network moreso than the PCM and it acts as a bridge between controllers which is why it makes sense to leave the 07 Instrument Cluster installed.


    Q: Does the speedometer work?
    Lito: Not as of now. Coyote’s OSS is 3 wire and our cars are 2 wire. Need to test that but I think it will not be an PCM-IC link issue but an OSS sensor instead, don't know if we are going to get it working or how if we do yet but we are going to try.
    Later on Lito wrote: Most of the wiring is done. Speedo works, will have a video by wednesday.


    New_Question: What was done to get the speedometer working from previous

    I was unable to find the answer to this question about what was done to get speedometer to work as well I am wondering if litos video was of this wiring set up or just a start up video. This is the last thing that I need to do to this car before its done.. not sure how its this far along but this is what stumps me..
     
  19. Juice

    Juice forum member

    386
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    07 4.0 to Coyote swap.
    On my swap, I made a bracket for the P/S pump. It is sharing a belt with the A/C compressor.

    Speedo can be made to work without the converter box with 2 wire sensor (magnum xl here). One wire connects to "signal return" and the other wire gets grounded. The other 2 wires from the harness side for 3 wire sensor are not used. Connected like this, my speedo was registering 1/3 actual speed. My tuner set rear gear ration to something like 1.6 and I finished dialing in the speedo with the revs/mile settings.

    A/C: I used the 2013 compressor and High pressure line. Purchased a 2013 condenser and had the low pressure line custom made. Used the A/C transducer from the 07 (screws right on the '13 line) and the pigtail connector from my 07 harness.
     
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