fan problems need help!!(and yes ive read everything!)

[08Spdemon]

alright guys im stumped, fan quit workin about a week ago so i started readin up on it here, so ive been doin some diagnosing today and this is where im at:
underneath fuse box is good, all fuse in pass. side junction box and underhood box are good, i have the new style resister and its good, all connections are fine, now the fan will work fine as long as i remove the high side relay, but as soon as i plug it back in something shorts and the fan stops workin, now remove the high side shut it off and start it again and the fan works again? now the weird part is when everythings workin(with the high side removed), if i check the resister for voltage on both sides of it im getting full whatever 13.XX volts? im lost i just want it working the way its supposed to work, thanks
-Will

 

[ixtlan]

Lookin at the wiring diagram the source power is the same for LS and HS (Fuse F3) to run the fan.
The Relay power is supplied by a common fuse also (F40).
So if you remove the HS Relay and it works and then when installed fails LS and HS.
Then the only culprits are the HS Relay or the socket it goes into.
That is saying the Fan itself is not shorted on the HS side of course.
Path of least resistance could be the HS side of the fan if shorted with Relay installed. Without it would be isolated from the LS side.

Hope this helps a little bit.

 

[08Spdemon]

a lil bit, i swapped around resistors(def., horn) and nothin, same prob so i know its not the relays, but how come i still get the same voltage on both sides of the resistor? thats the weird part, now let me run this by, theoretically since the low speed works, can i remove the resister in the plug, solder the wires where it "was", and just dial in the turn on temp with the xcal then just run off the low side all the time, as of right now i just removed the high relay and it works ok i guess, like i said tho for some reason that resistor aint doin its job or somethin cuz its basically runnin high on the low side?
-Will

 

[ixtlan]

You are saying you swapped resistors...
Do you mean Relays?
(Confused a bit what you mean)
I see no resistor in the diagram.
The diagram suggests the fan has 2 field coil sets.
I really do not know.
Try this:
Unplug the fan and jumper it directly to the battery.
Use Pin 1 for the HS side and Pin 3 for the LS side.
Ground is pin 2.
Does the fan run on each?
Is there a difference in speeds?
Then put 12v to both pins 1 and 3.
Does it speed up?
If so it is dual fields.
If you get higher speeds with both the fan is not the problem.
If you get the same speed on 1 as 3 and both the fan may be the problem.
May help eliminate the Fan as the problem.

If you only have HS with HS Relay removed.
Then it could be the LS relay is the problem.
Anyhow you can run the fan on the high side but you may not get the heatup you need to maintain the engine temp up.
The PCM may start causing other items as Fuel Ratios to change to bring that temp up.
I would try to find the problem first.

Here is the diagram:
http://iihs.net/fsm/?dir=40&viewfile=Cooling Fan.pdf

Thank G.T. for the manuals online.

 

[JeremyH]

The resistor was the culprit when mine stopped working, cut it out and wired it to come on high speed all the time. And it works again.

This thing on the fan shroud

 

[ixtlan]

There's one for the notebook.
Funny (Not really, and not surprising) they don't have that in the wiring diagram.
I will need to look for that on the shroud.
If it ever stops raining here...
There you go demon.
Most likely cause.

 

[08Spdemon]

You are saying you swapped resistors...
Do you mean Relays?
(Confused a bit what you mean)
I see no resistor in the diagram.
The diagram suggests the fan has 2 field coil sets.
I really do not know.
Try this:
Unplug the fan and jumper it directly to the battery.
Use Pin 1 for the HS side and Pin 3 for the LS side.
Ground is pin 2.
Does the fan run on each?
Is there a difference in speeds?
Then put 12v to both pins 1 and 3.
Does it speed up?
If so it is dual fields.
If you get higher speeds with both the fan is not the problem.
If you get the same speed on 1 as 3 and both the fan may be the problem.
May help eliminate the Fan as the problem.

If you only have HS with HS Relay removed.
Then it could be the LS relay is the problem.
Anyhow you can run the fan on the high side but you may not get the heatup you need to maintain the engine temp up.
The PCM may start causing other items as Fuel Ratios to change to bring that temp up.
I would try to find the problem first.

Here is the diagram:
http://iihs.net/fsm/?dir=40&viewfile=Cooling Fan.pdf

Thank G.T. for the manuals online.

sorry i meant to say swapped around relays, but i know the fan is not the problem because it works fine with 12v power, the relays are fine also, and i know the resistor cant be the problem because power is going through it, ive checked it with a volt meter but for some reason im getting the same voltage on both sides of the resistor tho, isnt it supposed to drop voltage? and the fan only works correctly with the high side relay removed from the box, as soon as i plug it back in i lose power to the fan? im stumped at the moment, but i took the car out last night and all is well right now(with the HS removed tho)
-Will

 

[JeremyH]

The temp resistor is for the fan highspeed, if the resistor is bad which it sounds like it is since its not resisting voltage and you are getting the same reading across it, then the relay is not being triggered correctly, not allowing the high speed voltage to be applied. Thats why when you removed the relay it bypasses its relay signal to the resistor and the fan works. Its def a bad resistor. 99 out of 100 times when your fan stops working and its not a bad relay or fuse its the resistor. Its a quite common problem as the resistor is near the radiator right in the engine heat and over time they burn out, this goes for all cars. I gaurantee if you remove the resistor or replace it you will be back in business.

 

[08Spdemon]

im still confused lol but i appreciate your help man, i wouldnt know where to turn if it wasnt for you guys, now what would be your recommendation for the next step, buy a new pig tail/resister assembly(of course that damn thing is prolly $100+!), or hack this one some way to bypass the resistor or something? thanks
-Will

 

[CraigNnem]

http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40304&highlight=radiator+fan&page=2


here's what I did, fan runs all the time.

 

[JeremyH]

http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40304&highlight=radiator+fan&page=2


here's what I did, fan runs all the time.

Im about to do that as well, and run a switch into the car so i can run the fan even when the engine is off to help cool down quicker.

 

[CraigNnem]

Mine is on when the engine is off too, but the key has to be turned on the first click.

 

[JeremyH]

Yeap probably what i will do too, a key on 12v source that way i dont accidently leave the fan running when i park the car.

 

[tmcolegr]

The resistor failing is a problem that has plagued S197s since 2005. The reisistor was changed in 2007 but still has issues.

Here's a thread on this same issue - see post #24

 

[08Spdemon]

ok thanks, now does anybody have a wiring schematic for exactly what/where the wires at that resistor connector are/goiing? i found one on here but it didnt clearly have the wires labeled, theres 2 with a yellow stripe, 1 with a red(i think) stripe, and a black(ground), i either want to hard wire it(or use male/female conn)so it comes on with the temp like its supposed to, or could i for example leave say the high relay out, and just run off the low side(or vise versa), but remove the resistor and solder where it was so that it gets full volts, would that work? i know theres no real problem to running it all the time but i dont want it to run all the time. thanks

 

[JeremyH]

ok thanks, now does anybody have a wiring schematic for exactly what/where the wires at that resistor connector are/goiing? i found one on here but it didnt clearly have the wires labeled, theres 2 with a yellow stripe, 1 with a red(i think) stripe, and a black(ground), i either want to hard wire it(or use male/female conn)so it comes on with the temp like its supposed to, or could i for example leave say the high relay out, and just run off the low side(or vise versa), but remove the resistor and solder where it was so that it gets full volts, would that work? i know theres no real problem to running it all the time but i dont want it to run all the time. thanks

Yes you can run off one side, i used a voltmeter to find the high side supply wire and hard wired the fan to that and the ground using m/f spade connectors. The two speeds are the green/yellow striped wires. Make sure the car is running and up to temp when you use the voltmeter to find the right wire.

 

[08Spdemon]

Yes you can run off one side, i used a voltmeter to find the high side supply wire and hard wired the fan to that and the ground using m/f spade connectors. The two speeds are the green/yellow striped wires. Make sure the car is running and up to temp when you use the voltmeter to find the right wire.

the only problem with that is i cant find the high supply because as soon as i plug the hs relay in it shorts, even with the resistor thing plug unplugged, thats the problem. theorectically tho both high and low are the same voltage coming from the fuse box correct? just when the low passes through the resistor, thats the only time the voltage drops right? so if i cant figure out whats going on with the high side, can i hard wire the low side(bypassing the high side), while removing the resistor at the same time basically turning the low side into the high/full 12v? as of right now i cant figure why the high side is shorting

 

[08Spdemon]

i even did the jump trick takin a piece of wire like shown in other threads about this, and grounding the pin to jump the relay, it works on the low side but not the high if thats helps any lol

 

[08Spdemon]

aww come on dont leave me hangin now lol!

 

[ixtlan]

Did you try the direct from the batt on the high and low sides?
You may have a shorted fan motor.