Finishing up on my 4.0L to 5.4L swap: CEL list (only 3!)

[05mustang_TT_charged]

dash pot idle??? all I did was change some LOAD and TORQUE parameters and got the monoblade to idle fine and it flows 2x more than that GT500

 

[Fake_Snake]

welcome aboard chris... hell i thought you were already on here LOL...
Your on every other mustang board LOL...

 

[95PGTech]

Yes you can find me on here, ModularFords, MustangForums, NLOC, and on SN95forums, SVT performance, Corral, East Coast Cobra, a bunch of other smaller Mustang forums, ProbeTalk, and some gaming sites as my pre-JDM callsign "95PGTTech". I'd hate to think what my total post count is, jeesh.

05kb: The GT500 throttle body idles perfectly fine when installed, it just throws the code and does the symptoms the OP poster was having. It has very little to do with its maximum cfm capabilities. Jim Sr. has fifteen years of SCT tuning under his belt and has only ever lost three motors on that dyno - I'll take what he says with great weight, glad you got yours to work out.

 

[Flapjack]

I say go with the average of 4.0 and 5.4... 4.7L, which is close to 4.6L, so this is the right place.

Clever. I like it.

It's not a GT and it's not a GT500, so perhaps we should make him feel unwelcome and tell him he is not accepted anywhere here on our forum.

Not cool. See if I buy any JDM shit.

j/k

Flapjack called me, and to share our conversation, every GT500 throttle body we have installed has caused similar issues with the cars, and we have had very little luck with BBK or other aftermarket throttle bodies other than the one in our video.

Jim Sr. will not give out the exact change that needs to be made to make the GT500 run flawlessly, but he gave the hint to make subtle changes in the dash pot idle.

Again, it's good to know that's probably where the issue is. I haven't had the time to look through the tables for that particular setting. Times like these make me with Sniper Delta Force had a "search" function. At any rate, Pat @ Sniper is looking at my tune as well, so now there are two sets of eyes on it. Thanks for the tip.

welcome aboard chris... hell i thought you were already on here LOL...
Your on every other mustang board LOL...

Were you talking to me, or Chris@JDM? We're both Chris.... and you're a punkass.

05kb: The GT500 throttle body idles perfectly fine when installed, it just throws the code and does the symptoms the OP poster was having. It has very little to do with its maximum cfm capabilities. Jim Sr. has fifteen years of SCT tuning under his belt and has only ever lost three motors on that dyno - I'll take what he says with great weight, glad you got yours to work out.

That is exactly the issue I'm having. The idle is a bit rough, but I think that's more to do with the cams than the TB. The only thing is, the idle changes from smooth to rough, then back to smooth again. You can hear it in the video in my signature. Hopefully it's just because the engine is so fresh. Maybe after it'll fix itself after break-in (though I'm not holding my breath...).

 

[Fake_Snake]

opps my bad I MEANT YOU FLAPJACK LOL......
Yeah you wont be calling me a punkass when you get that check LOL

SOme times i dont read all the post in the thread and to be honest i thought CHRIS@JDM was JIM@JDM theres like 3 of them on here or something LOL.. That or I have my boards mixed up lol..

 

[Flapjack]

opps my bad I MEANT YOU FLAPJACK LOL......
Yeah you wont be calling me a punkass when you get that check LOL

SOme times i dont read all the post in the thread and to be honest i thought CHRIS@JDM was JIM@JDM theres like 3 of them on here or something LOL.. That or I have my boards mixed up lol..

I figured you meant me. Yeah, you'll lose your punkass status when I get the check. You know I'm just giving crap because you're Army... and because you reenlisted.

How's the car going? I can hardly get ahold of Kevin anymore. He's been busy as hell.

 

[05mustang_TT_charged]

I wasn't saying it wasn't the correct way to do it but I didn't have to mess with any of that to get that tb to work..Good to know that though

 

[Flapjack]

opps my bad I MEANT YOU FLAPJACK LOL......
Yeah you wont be calling me a punkass when you get that check LOL

SOme times i dont read all the post in the thread and to be honest i thought CHRIS@JDM was JIM@JDM theres like 3 of them on here or something LOL.. That or I have my boards mixed up lol..

Oh yeah, I like how clicking on your 1/4 mile time brings up my mail client. Hurray for autoparsed URLs!

 

[thump_rrr]

I will ask Jim Sr. today if I can release the exact changes required for a GT500 TB, but there are changes in the tune required. Similar owners with regular GTs who do the swap have the same issues when installing the GT500 TB without a tune, the wrench light comes on, the car goes into limp, and that code is thrown.

I am not familiar with the Sniper software, however. We exclusively use SCT.

Hey Chris,
I did my GT500 TB swap right in front of your shop before my dyno runs.
My tune was never touched and I have never experienced any CEL.

 

[bscottie]

Flap, glad you made it over, looks like some good info was at the click of the mouse!

 

[Flapjack]

Hey Chris,
I did my GT500 TB swap right in front of your shop before my dyno runs.
My tune was never touched and I have never experienced any CEL.

Hmmm.... interesting.

I've got bigger problems, though. I'm still trying to figure out what the hell is wrong with my charging system. I tried switching the wires, and I still get the same two codes:

P0622 - Generator Field Terminal Circuit
P0690 - ECM/PCM Power Relay Sense Circuit Too High

I'm taking the alternator to Autozone to make sure it's ok, but I'm sure it is. This is pissing me off...

If anyone is good at this stuff, here's the link where I figured out the wiring. The other guy who swapped his 4.6 came to the same conclusion. So I'm thinking the wiring is fine... especially since I swapped them and got the same errors.

I'm also gonna see if a different alternator would work better for me.

http://www.modularfords.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1045332&postcount=460

 

[don_w]

Hey Chris,
I did my GT500 TB swap right in front of your shop before my dyno runs.
My tune was never touched and I have never experienced any CEL.

I think its a Canadian thing...

 

[Flapjack]

Hey Chris,
I did my GT500 TB swap right in front of your shop before my dyno runs.
My tune was never touched and I have never experienced any CEL.

Was your car tuned before the swap? Has it ever been tuned? It may be an issue with the stock tune.

 

[Flapjack]

Ok, for the alternator stuff, it looks like it may be a bad apple. I took the damn thing to both AutoZone and Advance Auto. Neither had a bracket to mount the stupid thing. The guys at Advance were a bit braver, and decided to hold it in place while the test ran. It put out about 10% of what it was supposed to, but there were no particular codes or anything.

Here are some the translations for P0622. Nothing came up for the other alternator code:

Chrysler
- Failed generator
- Open in electrical circuit

Mitsubishi
- Open or short circuit condition
- Poor electrical connection
- ECM failure

Mazda
- Open or short circuit condition
- Failed generator

OBDII/Generic
- The PCM has determined that a malfunction exists in the generator lamp "F" control circuit

GM
Definition: Generator "F" terminal circuit
Explanation: ECM detected the generator charging pulse width was not as expected
Possible causes:
- Failed generator/belt
- Open or short circuit condition


So I've basically come to the conclusion that the alternator sucks, and that it just isn't working right. P0622 is probably just a very specific code for a very general problem.

A new alternator will be here tomorrow.

 

[Joach]

So I've basically come to the conclusion that the alternator sucks, and that it just isn't working right. P0622 is probably just a very specific code for a very general problem.

wonder if the code applies to people as well.... hrmmm

Fingers crossed and hope the new altenator will solve the problem!

 

[95PGTech]

Was your car tuned before the swap? Has it ever been tuned? It may be an issue with the stock tune.

You beat me to that question. If the car wasn't tuned Peter, I don't know what to say, that's the first I've heard of.

By the way, I'm grinding your name off the tensioners now so we can inscribe JDM on them....j/k. These things are so easy to sell I was screaming at Julie to order me 50 of them.

Speaking of throttle bodies, I finally manned up and ripped off my BBK throttle body last night. Wow, what a surprise, it doesn't look like it STILL seals right and the stock one idles PERFECTLY. Three years, three tuners, one pro-racer package, one BBK rebuild, and endless aggravation trial and error later, I'm ready to throw this into the Atlantic Ocean (its a 1998, but it seems BBK hasn't made a good throttle body since the Fox Bodies).

 

[Flapjack]

Ok, I put the cover on the alternator back where it should be. Then, I brought it back to the auto store. It tested just fine. Really good, in fact. So I cut a swath of rubber, and glued it underside the intake where it's close to the alternator positive terminal. No more short.

So I start the car up, knowing my wiring should be correct, and that the alternator tested good. "CHECK CHARGING SYSTEM". I really can't believe this. I'm completely out of ideas. I don't know why I'm getting these errors, and I can't drive the car until I sort it out.

 

[Dread53]

A couple of my ideas (I'm currently working in Denver, might have to drive down and see this beast!):

The alternators on the S197's run through the processor and control voltage based on temperature. I just bought a SCT Pro Racer package and was looking through the parameters and found that, but I can't remember which temp it's looking at. The code would be a result of the wrong / missing feedback loop. It looks pretty tight in there, but how about looking into the same mounting position as mine (Saleen SC) where it's turned around backwards?

I had the BBK TB awhile ago and spent considerable time testing where it 'failed', and it was due to confusion between the TB angle and MAF reading. If it was run at WOT or below ~60% open it was fine, but somewhere around 75-85% at high RPM it set the code and limped in. I've been looking for those tables but haven't found them yet.

Hope this helps! Nice work, BTW.

 

[Flapjack]

A couple of my ideas (I'm currently working in Denver, might have to drive down and see this beast!):

You should come down! I work until 5-5:30 during the week, but I'm usually home after that. We're going out to do a little shopping today, but I'll be around later. PM me and I'll send you my cell #.

The alternators on the S197's run through the processor and control voltage based on temperature. I just bought a SCT Pro Racer package and was looking through the parameters and found that, but I can't remember which temp it's looking at. The code would be a result of the wrong / missing feedback loop. It looks pretty tight in there, but how about looking into the same mounting position as mine (Saleen SC) where it's turned around backwards?

Are you sure they go off temp? Traditionally, alternators go off battery voltage. As I understand it, cars with a PCM-controlled alternator are different as the PCM monitors the voltage, then tells the alternator when to charge.

I actually was looking at different alternator mounting locations. I saw how Roush sets theirs up, but there's no room there because of cooling lines. I'll hae to look into the Saleen's now. It's tight, but nothing is shorting out any more. I'm not too worried about the mounting any more.

I had the BBK TB awhile ago and spent considerable time testing where it 'failed', and it was due to confusion between the TB angle and MAF reading. If it was run at WOT or below ~60% open it was fine, but somewhere around 75-85% at high RPM it set the code and limped in. I've been looking for those tables but haven't found them yet.

I haven't tested yet, but I'm pretty confident the TB error will taken care of. I added 15% (the size diff between the GT and GT500 TBs) of volume to the "dash pot preposition" tables, which I've been told can help this issue. Also, Pat @ Sniper edited my tune to the same ends, though he messed with different areas. I'm going to try theirs first, since they're the pros and I'm just starting...

Hope this helps! Nice work, BTW.

Thanks. I appreciate the ideas. Even if they're not the fix, they'll get me thinking.

I'm actually gonna talk with Ford tomorrow. When I put heads and cams in my 4.0L V6, they were able to get them degreed correctly for me. Since no one had done cams on the 4.0L before I did, I really had no forewarning on how difficult it would be to get those things lined up.

They even mechanically advanced them a bit for me, which I feel is why my HP was so much higher than my torque on the V6 (440 RWHP/ 388 RWTQ).

 

[Flapjack]

I just thought of something under the "keep it simple, stupid" concept. Could this be a grounding issue? How many grounding straps are on the newer Mustangs? I know I got the one in the back, but if they're others, I might've missed them.

Anyone know how many grounding straps this car has?

**EDIT**
Ok, the one in the back is hooked up and there were 3 in the front. Of the front three, one was not hooked up. I really doubt that would be it, though.