Head Dilemma

[BadPiggy]

Guys,
I need help swaying me one way or another. My Mustang hasn't run since I ripped the M90 off and sold it...at least 2 years ago. I have a forged iron block, new 127550 cams, KB 2.8 blower, FORE E85 return fuel system.....you name it, I have it. New McCleod clutch setup, new cam covers, new oil pan, new timing system, new oil pump w/billet gears, new bolts...it's all there.

My dilemma is that I'm a cut from the old cloth. I believe that if you're going to build a hot rod, no part goes untouched. With that said, I still have to get my heads worked over. Fox Lake is who I'd have do my heads, the amount of work I'd want done equates to roughly $3000 bone. Stage 3 port, oversize valves, PAC springs, bronze guides...the full monty.

This has been my holdup on putting my motor back together. I keep hearing/reading that there's not enough left on the table with these 3V heads to justify that kind of coin. Everything I've read says these heads flow extremely well as-is and there's just not much more there.

I keep questioning myself. On one hand I want to hear my car run again, I want to drive it. On the other hand I want to get everything that's in it, out.....which means waiting on my head money fund to fill-up.

What is a realistic gain I should expect if I do the head work?
Is it worth dropping the coin? (I'm just a normal driver, no desire to drag regularly.)
Do I just send them to Livernois for that $999 cleanup special?
Do I do nothing and bolt them to my new motor and don't look back?

Someone give me some good advice, please!
I'm sooooo confused!

 

[stkjock]

how much boost are you going to run?

 

[BadPiggy]

how much boost are you going to run?

I was thinking 18'ish...thereabouts.

I was actually going to have a couple tunes put in the SCT...1 tune for everyday driving in the 600HP range...then another tune in the "going for broke" range.

 

[46addict]

Is it worth dropping the coin? (I'm just a normal driver, no desire to drag regularly.)

For a normal driver I wouldn't be able to justify a max effort build, but then again I'm kind of a minimalist. If it were my money I would de-shroud the valves if I was itching to spend it and throw on those PAC springs and maybe stock replacement lash adjusters for good measure.

 

[stkjock]

I was thinking 18'ish...thereabouts.

I was actually going to have a couple tunes put in the SCT...1 tune for everyday driving in the 600HP range...then another tune in the "going for broke" range.

I don't think that the cost is worth it in the power range you're looking at it.

 

[Badd GT]

I picked up 35 horsepower across the curve when I added PP heads to my NA 4.6 3 with 127500 cams. These heads did not have oversize valves. I have a DOB M122 kit now making 515 rwhp w/ 18 deg. timing and 13-14 lbs boost on 93 octane. Most DOB's I see are around 480-490 rwhp with cams and regular heads, so the heads add about the same with boost as NA, at least in my case.

 

[weather man]

Run em as is.

 

[eighty6gt]

515rwhp with 14 psi... looks like I am going to fall very short of my goal of 500rw with stock heads, less boost and 127300 cams.

 

[BruceH]

515rwhp with 14 psi... looks like I am going to fall very short of my goal of 500rw with stock heads, less boost and 127300 cams.

Not sure of what you are running but I have some experience to share.

Made 515rhwp at 13psi with a 9.5:1 4.6, 127300 cams, 92 octane, 62mm frpp tb, stock exhaust, and a 2.3 Whipple with a custom tune.

That combo ran from 122 to 126 mph depending on the tires and rear gears.

Back to the original topic: If you have the money and time then do what you feel is best. I wouldn't go with oversize valves (you lose the stock inconel exhaust valve for a ss) but something like a cnc port is beneficial. It might not be cost effective for what you are doing but nothing in the hobby/addiction is cost effective.

 

[AndrewNagle]

I have some experience to share......nothing in the hobby/addiction is cost effective.

You can say that again

 

[RocketcarX]

Guys,
I need help swaying me one way or another. My Mustang hasn't run since I ripped the M90 off and sold it...at least 2 years ago. I have a forged iron block, new 127550 cams, KB 2.8 blower, FORE E85 return fuel system.....you name it, I have it. New McCleod clutch setup, new cam covers, new oil pan, new timing system, new oil pump w/billet gears, new bolts...it's all there.

My dilemma is that I'm a cut from the old cloth. I believe that if you're going to build a hot rod, no part goes untouched. With that said, I still have to get my heads worked over. Fox Lake is who I'd have do my heads, the amount of work I'd want done equates to roughly $3000 bone. Stage 3 port, oversize valves, PAC springs, bronze guides...the full monty.

This has been my holdup on putting my motor back together. I keep hearing/reading that there's not enough left on the table with these 3V heads to justify that kind of coin. Everything I've read says these heads flow extremely well as-is and there's just not much more there.

I keep questioning myself. On one hand I want to hear my car run again, I want to drive it. On the other hand I want to get everything that's in it, out.....which means waiting on my head money fund to fill-up.

What is a realistic gain I should expect if I do the head work?
Is it worth dropping the coin? (I'm just a normal driver, no desire to drag regularly.)
Do I just send them to Livernois for that $999 cleanup special?
Do I do nothing and bolt them to my new motor and don't look back?

Someone give me some good advice, please!
I'm sooooo confused!

That's not old school it's just horrible logic.
With that being said there is no down side to the heads being cleaned up/freshened up at such a low level of port work and clean up other than the $$$.

 

[408Stang]

I had my heads done by Fox Lake and they messed up the guides during their hone process. Whomever did the honing ended up hour-glassing the new guides and my local machine shop had to redo them. I contacted Fox Lake and they made it right with a partial refund.

The above being said.... The port work is beautiful and perfectly symmetrical as expected with CNC porting. You'll get some of your money out of just looking at them.

I'm running stock sized valves, PAC Springs and JDM Engineering "Sterling" cams and phase limiters. I'm also using Kooks 1 7/8" long tubes and a Kooks 3" mid-pipe. My blower is a Saleen series VI making about 12 psi (keep in mind your boost will be lower with ported heads and even more so with aggressive cams) I also have a Ford Racing 62mm TB and a JLT 4" cold air. My car makes right at 600rwhp and 550 ft lbs. On 93 Octane.

I think the Sean Hyland book and several other sources also state that increasing the valve diameter is only worth minimal gains, and not worth it for most builds. I consulted with JDM Engineering and they advised against it for cost / benefit reasons. Head porting will net you some gain, but the cost-effectiveness of that gain is pretty low.

I think the head porting was worth it for me... But I also got the heads off eBay for $150 so my initial investment was very low too.

If you think you'll only make 30 to 50 HP more from the porting... Then perhaps $3000 isn't worth it for that amount of gain. Only you can decide that. Unless you run crazy boost 600rwhp is about what a 3v is capable of in my opinion.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

 

[skwerl]

I had FRPP stage 3 heads and a fairly radical cam on my build. It made big power but it never ran right at low rpm. I loved the power but didn't have many other expenses at the time.

Now I have a house (as do you) and therefore I have a million other things to spend money on. My car is almost 3 years old now and still stock except for tune and mufflers. No way could I afford another engine build now. If I ever do anything with the current car, I'll drop a blower on the stock motor and keep it tuned to safe levels.

I liked my stage 3 heads but if I were to do it over I'd just use stock heads. Besides, you can always swap heads later on if you really want to. Get the damn car back on the road!

 

[eighty6gt]

The more OEM parts you can use, the better. I think 99% of people over build, over spend, and then never wear out or break what they got, end up getting bored and moving on. I think my current build will last until the police come around and confiscate all of the gasoline powered vehicles that can be driven by hand.

 

[46addict]

The more OEM parts you can use, the better. I think 99% of people over build, over spend, and then never wear out or break what they got, end up getting bored and moving on. I think my current build will last until the police come around and confiscate all of the gasoline powered vehicles that can be driven by hand.

This is my sentiment. It's more rewarding to have a reliable, stock-like driving car on a mild setup than a max effort build if the primary use is for the street.

 

[blownGTvert]

I can't believe you still haven't got the car back on the road! Lol

That blower made 680/635 at the wheels @ 17psi, stock heads and cams when it was on my car. These numbers are with E85.

Forget the $3k expense for head work.