Help me upgrade my car for racing school

frank s

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2013DIBGT makes a lot of sense. Here's another offering:

You might eventually find out you don't like the sensations associated with going faster than any rational being needs to go. Try it in someone else's car, where you can make an actual comparison between your vehicle and one that is set up for such use. That is to say, spend a few bucks on a school, like Bondurant's or the one at Miller Motorsports Park (Utah).

That investment might save you the hassle and expense of modifying your own car—and all the negative aspects that induces. Even if you decide to follow on that route, you'll be a better driver sooner, no matter what car or where you drive.

It's been said many times in many ways: 95% of car modifications are done "Because it's there, and because I can". Checking out the driver's capabilities and interest in a more-controlled environment could lead to expending resources in more effective directions.

I bring this from the perspective of one who has built and raced a number of cars that eventually became non-streetable lumps of wasted time and money, and would have required double or triple the investment to get them to the next level of competition. I couldn't stand to see them sitting in the garage three weekends out of four because of time and money constraints, so I passed them on to someone who thought they'd carry on. Every one of them got smart faster than I did: one went on to compete in national championships; the others sold quickly, after the short romance wore off, and went back to streetable dual-purpose cars.

Of course Garner might not fit any of these profiles, but possibly will benefit from a different perspective on the challenges he faces.
 
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kcbrown

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I've only seen one person so far in this forum who thought the stock car handled well.....until they eventually modded it and realized it really is much better afterwards.

You're probably talking about me, and the car is now a tad more oversteerish than before, but in terms of the handling, that's the only real difference I've noticed. I don't know that I'd say the handling is "much better".

The ride, on the other hand, most definitely is. But then, I've never argued that the car's ride was terribly good (I've always recognized it as being a bit harsh. Felt like there was too much compression).


It would be pretty interesting to drive a racing setup, just to see how it feels if nothing else.
 

Norm Peterson

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If you really havent owned a car previously that had good handling then by all means take the safe route and drive the car in its current state to learn its shortcomings so you don't kill yourself or someone else.
I would bet that most people who come to internet message boards armed only with product awareness - knowing that aftermarket suspension components to improve cornering & handling exist - really do fall into that category.

Even having previously owned a good handling car doesn't mean much unless they've intentionally driven it hard enough, often enough. Usually that doesn't come through either.

The average driver has never in his life intentionally driven to the limits of what a stock S197 can deliver, so he has no basis for knowing what to do to improve the car's behavior beyond that. I happen to know a stockish S197 can run a clean and fairly tight 3-cone slalom maneuver through a highway debris field at 65 mph. As in past the point where harnesses would have been of clear benefit, and that's with the car loaded up for a 2500 mile trip. I wouldn't categorize that as the same "craptastic handling" that many people accuse the S197 of possessing. Of course you can improve it, but the starting point is higher than people seem to think.

I did say "stockish" rather than "stock", so here's the disclaimer. A little tire pressure tuning (check), plus the quarter-degree-out-of-range front camber settings that the car rolled off the transport truck with (ditto).


Norm
 
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garner

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Ok well I emailed the school and they said we'd drive about 100 miles within a 6 hour period(hour of that is for lunch). To me that seems like tons of driving in such a short span of time. I'm not sure which course it'll be on(they have 7) but a few have features that mimic parts of famous race tracks like dogleg at imola and corkscrew at laguna seca.

This has me really really concerned about tires now, I just don't see 235mm all season yokohama yk580 holding up to that abuse without getting super "greasy".

As far as the cg lock, I'll definitely be ordering that. These stock seats suck at holding me into place cause of how wide they are, even recaros are wide on me.

Is there any brake cooling kit that most recommend? I know AM has the JLT one on sale this month, but I'd rather find one that uses the front bumper optional fog light location
 

csamsh

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Is there any brake cooling kit that most recommend? I know AM has the JLT one on sale this month, but I'd rather find one that uses the front bumper optional fog light location

http://www.vorshlag.com/product_info.php?cPath=141_142_280&products_id=706 Brake Kit

I might leave the hard tires on there, depending on how much experience you have. You will reach the limits of the car's handling at lower speeds with the harder tires.

Or...you could always get some RS3's, Rivals, or Direzza ZII's.
 
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claudermilk

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You're probably talking about me
Could be me, too. I thought the handling was pretty good on the S197 out of the box--that's why I bought the car. It was only after several events pushing the car to the limits that I found aspects I wanted to improve.

Norm makes good points. Most owners won't know the difference. Of course, this forum isn't most owners. ;)

This has me really really concerned about tires now, I just don't see 235mm all season yokohama yk580 holding up to that abuse without getting super "greasy".

Is there any brake cooling kit that most recommend? I know AM has the JLT one on sale this month, but I'd rather find one that uses the front bumper optional fog light location
It would be a good learning experience to run on street tires. They will get chewed on pretty good during the day, to expect that.

For the brake ducts, Ford has a ready-made Kit using the CS foglight/Boss duct fascia panels. P/N M-2004-Mba. But that's kind of expensive. I am looking at piecing it together myself. The fascia panels are P/Ns DR3Z-17E811-BA and DR3Z-17E810-BA. Blowfish Racing now has the brackets to attach the hose to those; BCD-01-200. There's a few places to get the rotor backing plate, I am going with Vorshlag; 94-20C2-F1. Then hit Summit Racing for a length of 3" hi-temp hose. You can also go with Vorshlag's new fascia bracket, but that requires cutting the lower grille. The Vorshlag fasica brackets are slightly more expensive than the Ford + Blowfish pieces, but not enough to make much of a difference on that front.
 

BlackMustang690

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Just my input as I also use my DD s197 for the track. I just started doing a little of Circuit racing this year, Next week being my 4th weekend at the track. I am not a pro driver now nor do I feel like one. Just your avg. guy going to have fun and learning as much as possible at the track. All I did my first weekend was made sure that everything checked out fine Fluids, brakes, belt and tires. Made sure to listen to the instructor. but at the end of the weekend I found out that my stock oem brakes weren't good enough, I was leaking diff oil out the breather on the axel and my street tires were crap. I was experiencing brake fade going in a couple of corners. I had all this diff oil being sprayed underneath all on the back end of my car. I guess what im saying is you wont really know what your car needs till its at the track being pushed harder than your fast street driving. I have now upgraded to some brembo take offs, got some dtc pads, motul 600, installed a differential expansion tank, and got new tires. I got some nitto nt05. Just those upgrades have made a complete difference, IMO I believe tires and brakes are the most important upgrades when starting out. Also to forget to have a jack and some tools.
 

Norm Peterson

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I was leaking diff oil out the breather on the axel
A related issue is that if this little breather is plugged - which can and does happen over time and will look like everything is fine because there's no oil stain - you can develop leaks at the axle seals. One quickie fix if you don't have time to do anything better is to remove the little fitting and slosh it around in a little container of anything that will cut grease. In a pinch, even gasoline will work.


Norm
 

todcp

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I have the JLT brake cooling kit on my 2014. Works very well. And the price is where it out to be for such a simple piece of equipment.
 

JPC

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"non-brembo GT"
You need some brakes sooner than later.

I'm an instructor at Eagles Canyon raceway in the north Dallas area. The one thing I tell all newbies is invest into brakes (pads, fluid, regular brake flushing and ducting) I have yet seen a car (except for ZR1) which has "too much brake" (I've been in many cars with too much power ....not safe)

After brakes, look at tires, 18x10 rim with a good track tire. 18" tires are cheaper than 19" and you have a more choices too.

Last but not least to seat time and instruction. I remember instructing a newbie @ ECR last year with a stock Camaro 1LE (forgive me) We shaved off 10+ seconds per lap in our last session right before the stock brake fluid overheated.

Ping me anytime: [email protected]
 

Dubstep Shep

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"non-brembo GT"
You need some brakes sooner than later.

I'm an instructor at Eagles Canyon raceway in the north Dallas area. The one thing I tell all newbies is invest into brakes (pads, fluid, regular brake flushing and ducting) I have yet seen a car (except for ZR1) which has "too much brake" (I've been in many cars with too much power ....not safe)

After brakes, look at tires, 18x10 rim with a good track tire. 18" tires are cheaper than 19" and you have a more choices too.

Last but not least to seat time and instruction. I remember instructing a newbie @ ECR last year with a stock Camaro 1LE (forgive me) We shaved off 10+ seconds per lap in our last session right before the stock brake fluid overheated.

Ping me anytime: [email protected]

Dude when I get my car running I'm may shoot you an email.
 

hayden55

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Yeah I'd definitely agree with all of the above. Just fix the brake fade. Wilwood brake fluid is cheap in 6 packs and Carbotech makes awesome pads (But $$$). Then just make sure to get camber plates because the stock suspension will eat the sidewalls off of the tires. I know, i was poor and worked my way up just like you. Mod by mod where i saw fit and where i got a deal. (not saying your poor but i did a lot of incremental)
I do have to say that if you can wait for the used Brembos, id do that before i put pads into the stock calipers. Dont waste your money... Used brembos are typically 400 shipped, reybestos rotors for 60, and pads for 180. Wilwood fluid is like 5.70/ a bottle and 570 degrees.
Also the rear diff resevoir kit is like 29 here and 4 bucks shipped.
http://www.fulltiltboogieracing.com/2011-2013_Boss_302_Suspension_Parts_and_Tools.htm
 
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