Homegrown Coyote

[Jinx]

One thing I couldn't stand about my old 3v Whippled car was the anxiety that came from running that blower with a build bottom end. Cost was the problem at that point and the first time owning a FI car. With that said and attempting to plan out what I want to do, I have formulated a few questions. I have searched but most thread containing info on a build seem to revolve around bulletproofing and high expense. I love reading the threads about Bruce's multiple 3v builds (I love to see him with a coyote at some point), but I havent seen a cost effective (in the sense of building for what he is targeting) DIYer like him rebuild a coyote. Usually I search and see threads about shortblock or longblock swaps or all out builds. The closest I've seen is one fellow on SVTP with a boss shortblock build. So that leaves me with a few questions before jumping into a coyote project.

-If buying a low mileage (under 40,000) car is a deck plate bore and honed really that necessary? Couldn't a simple home ball hone be good enough?

-Same low mileage car, same simple ball hone, wouldn't a boss piston/ring/rod combo set, TSS billet oil pump gears, clevite bearings, and boss valve springs be more that enough insurance for a beefcake special. Lol.

^thoughts on this idea:

-Ive read that the oil pump gears, due to harmonics from a
blown application and increased engine RPM, usually are
suspect before the rods on roadrunner engine.

-this combo seems to leave the stock block itself the weakest
link; but at that point you would have to be pushing 800.


Basically the idea is reusing a young block to make a homegrown boss stock block with TSS oil pump gears and boss springs to have insurance at an increased rpm.


While drooling over multiple build ideas the FI route with it plentiful power on tap is always most appealing. However considering my worries on my last FI car; a build seems to be on the wishlist.

It seems smart to build it up before failure.

I like to hear ideas on this.

 

[Kenaizer]

onebadgsx is in the beginning stages of a build similar to one you're talking about.

 

[Jinx]

stang910 is the one I read about on SVTP but didnt stang910 and onebadgsx both damage their blocks before rebuilding? Heck I think stang910 damaged one of his heads slightly; I'm not sure.

 

[Kenaizer]

No, onebadgsx is still running strong on his stock block. He's just building another one up because racecar.

I'll post a link to his thread when I find it.

 

[Kenaizer]

http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=107433

 

[Jinx]

I found it. He going 10:1 though.

 

[Jinx]

I wouldnt go near 800rwhp though. Just like to have a safe auto FI DD thart can bust a few balls around here. Hell I'm not sure if a build is really needed, but I would feel better about it.

I have no idea who the longest and highest mileage with FI is on here with a stock block coyote.

 

[Jinx]

Hell, Ive even toyed with the idea of doing all I just mentioned, but instead of FI..... port the stock heads and do cams and rev to the moon.......if the money isnt good afterwards for a blower.

 

[konablue11gt]

I ve had mine dd and on the vortech for a year and a half and stock block ...still going strong think ive got like 10 k miles on it since FI. But if you must have stronger bottom end id go with a boss short block ...couple of them on here into the nines and street drivers too

 

[stang910]

I did damage my block and also bent a few valves in the head. I ordered a new block, the Boss rotating assembly w/bearings, TSS oil pump gears and the 4 valves that were damaged. I've put 30k miles on this setup and it's holding up great! In fact I just went down to a 3.33" pulley. I have no idea what kind of power I'm making but the car feels great.

As for building it yourself, if you can build a modular you can build a Coyote. They are very similar. It just takes a little common sense to figure out how to disassemble/assemble the few things that are different.

 

[BruceH]

FYI I've never done a torque plate hone. I read a very good article in Popular mechanics once that went in depth into the modular motor engineering. It was designed for minimal bore deflection. Part of that is accomplished with the long tty head bolts. At any rate Ford doesn't use torque plates in the factory, not even with the GT500 motors and they handle a lot of power until the rods let go. The ptb on an aluminum GT500 motor is from .0009-.0019". Pretty tight. I'd still get a decent hone done though, the tolerances are just too tight to do it any other way imo.

Boss springs, Mahle pistons (Coated and come with rings for $600. They are also the pistons Ford uses for the Terminator, GT500, and GT) h beam rods with arp bolts, bearings as close to stock as possible.

You would be looking at about $1300 in parts. Maybe $500 to $1000 in machine shop costs depending. That means that with your block you could have a safe motor for under $2500 or so including all the hardware and gaskets needed to put it back together.

Lots of smart people will tell you not to do it the way I would. I just try to follow what has worked for Ford and beef up the parts that are known to fail. I'm not smart enough to reengineer the clearances, etc. so I'll never be building a race engine that needs those things reengineered. I think that if I needed a race motor I'd contact JPC.

 

[Riptide]

I thought the stock coyote bottom end was good for at least 600? Have they really started to come apart that often now?

 

[Mystickeith50]

Not really I don't think. I'm upgrading this month but I've had over 600 for years now.

 

[onebadgsx]

boss r/a is no longer available, so you nwill have to go another route on that.

 

[Jinx]

Not really I don't think. I'm upgrading this month but I've had over 600 for years now.

Running a ATI balancer or have you replaced your oil pump gears with billet ones?

 

[Jinx]

FYI I've never done a torque plate hone. I read a very good article in Popular mechanics once that went in depth into the modular motor engineering. It was designed for minimal bore deflection. Part of that is accomplished with the long tty head bolts. At any rate Ford doesn't use torque plates in the factory, not even with the GT500 motors and they handle a lot of power until the rods let go. The ptb on an aluminum GT500 motor is from .0009-.0019". Pretty tight. I'd still get a decent hone done though, the tolerances are just too tight to do it any other way imo.

Boss springs, Mahle pistons (Coated and come with rings for $600. They are also the pistons Ford uses for the Terminator, GT500, and GT) h beam rods with arp bolts, bearings as close to stock as possible.

You would be looking at about $1300 in parts. Maybe $500 to $1000 in machine shop costs depending. That means that with your block you could have a safe motor for under $2500 or so including all the hardware and gaskets needed to put it back together.

Lots of smart people will tell you not to do it the way I would. I just try to follow what has worked for Ford and beef up the parts that are known to fail. I'm not smart enough to reengineer the clearances, etc. so I'll never be building a race engine that needs those things reengineered. I think that if I needed a race motor I'd contact JPC.

So do you still use a plastigauge to check bearing clearances or just use bearing within the same tolerances as a stock bearing? Reason I ask, I like to rebuild this thing while keeping it simple. $2500 is a nice price in terms of safety.

 

[rednek01]

I thought the stock coyote bottom end was good for at least 600? Have they really started to come apart that often now?

My buddy just blew his last week. 2013 with a vortech 615 or so to the rear wheels. We are in the process of tearing down and assessing the damage and coming up with a game plan to get it back out there. He did kill it beating a modified R35 so at least it went down winning!

 

[Jinx]

My buddy just blew his last week. 2013 with a vortech 615 or so to the rear wheels. We are in the process of tearing down and assessing the damage and coming up with a game plan to get it back out there. He did kill it beating a modified R35 so at least it went down winning!

I usually dont have the luck like most on here and that story sounds like a one that would happen to me. However, I like build in the beginning so I dont have to pay more for replacing damage parts (blocks and heads) or salvaging stuff.

 

[rednek01]

I agree I would rather build the foundation then build the house. but he decided to do it the other way around and is paying for it now!

 

[onebadgsx]

Rednek i sent you a pm...