local debate on cold air...

[KoolerSL2]

wanted some input from the more experience tuning guys when it comes to cold air kits ect...
the local debate is that the 2010+ factory cold air ducting has to have extra tuning to compensate for the extra available air being introduced.

2 local guys are trying to fab up a so called "Ram-Air" from the front bumper to their CAI filter area trying to keep cold air available and not suck engine temp air at speed. i for see tuning issues with a weird MAF signal but im no tuning expert.

whats everyone weigh in on this?

 

[stkjock]

If using the stock MAF - and stock size tube no tuning should be needed



to everyone else... yes it's weak tech

 

[KoolerSL2]

stock maf's but 1 has the Airaid other has JLT3.
so tubing sizes are 101mm? and 110mm?

 

[irishpwr46]

any air forced through the mass air meter will be registered and accounted for. and it wont be a ram air, more like a fresh air inlet. ram air is forced through the intake through ah outside inlet. unless they make some sort of a sealed box to contain all the air coming in from their "ram" inlet, it is only a fresh air inlet. how bad are their IATs that theyre concerned about this?

 

[Pentalab]

What really works good on the 2010-2012 cars is replacing the oem upper grille.. with the 7 bar grille. (fog lamp delete at the same time). That alone will eliminate 2 x 90 deg bends into the..."snorkel" that in turn feeds air into the airbox.

I have the M90 blower on my 2010, and after the 7 bar grille went in, I noticed the boost increased from 5.8 psi...to 6.4 psi once I hit 40 mph. It breathes a lot better, and air temps are down a bit. Also, the under hood temps dropped quite a bit. The Roush HE is aprx 18" tall x 21" wide and gets hit by air from both upper + lower front grilles. With the 7 bar grille installed, the airflow through the upper grille increased by a huge amount. The oem 2010-2012 upper grille blocks off way too much airflow. Only a small portion of the oem upper grill has air through it. Most of the oem honeycombs are blocked off, and ditto with the foglamps, and everything outboard of both foglamps. The oem pony, dead center is yet another blocked off portion.

The 7 bar grille is available from roush, and also AM..and also Mr bodykit. The Mr bodykit version mounts in 6 places, the AM + Roush versions mounts in 4 places.

 

[KoolerSL2]

Honestly Irish, they came from old f body's with LT1's and what they are doing is what they did to those cars. Colder air is better and could make more power but idk how their execution will work out.

 

[Fullboogie]

Frankly, if they enclose the filter and grab air from a colder source, it ain't a bad idea. Nothing wrong with a little home brewed project. I doubt there will be any noticeable gain, but it's a good experiment as long as they log IAT's before and after.

 

[lito]

wanted some input from the more experience tuning guys when it comes to cold air kits ect...
the local debate is that the 2010+ factory cold air ducting has to have extra tuning to compensate for the extra available air being introduced.

2 local guys are trying to fab up a so called "Ram-Air" from the front bumper to their CAI filter area trying to keep cold air available and not suck engine temp air at speed. i for see tuning issues with a weird MAF signal but im no tuning expert.

whats everyone weigh in on this?

If keeping the filter to TB area intact, no changes, the thing will be turbulance. It can screw the signal and stalls may begin to happen, specially on autos.

This is the same that happens with the KR type hood with working vents on an open filter, just by adding the hood, stalls happen. All because the forced and turbulent air feeded into the filter that disrupted the MAF signal.

 

[07 Boss]

If keeping the filter to TB area intact, no changes, the thing will be turbulance. It can screw the signal and stalls may begin to happen, specially on autos.

This is the same that happens with the KR type hood with working vents on an open filter, just by adding the hood, stalls happen. All because the forced and turbulent air feeded into the filter that disrupted the MAF signal.

How far should the sensor be from an actual scoop or inlet to minimize the turbulence. I know also that if it is too close to the TB pressure waves from sudden closing of the blades can effect MAF readings also. I was thinking of setting up something like a scoop/ram set up but was worried about the turbulence.

 

[lito]

How far should the sensor be from an actual scoop or inlet to minimize the turbulence. I know also that if it is too close to the TB pressure waves from sudden closing of the blades can effect MAF readings also. I was thinking of setting up something like a scoop/ram set up but was worried about the turbulence.

Stock location is ideal because it uses the filter as a laminator, getting closer to the TB you may end with backflow as you point out. The only issue with the "RAM air" stuff is not blowing the air directly to the filter, if you can "fill" the case with air, good, or you flow the air against the filter top, the issues I've seen is when the air comes directly into a side of the typical round filter and the MAF signal starts swinging due to the turbulance. You can set it up in a way that you can "pressurize" it with outside air without hitting the filter side directly. So is better to study/test the piping you will use instead of moving the meter.

This happens with relocated to bumper filters, when you remove the bumper, is incredible how messy things get.

 

[KoolerSL2]

Ok here's 1 more question. How much air does the car shaker put into the air box? Because I see that they put the air on the side of a CAI filter.

 

[07 Boss]

Stock location is ideal because it uses the filter as a laminator, getting closer to the TB you may end with backflow as you point out. The only issue with the "RAM air" stuff is not blowing the air directly to the filter, if you can "fill" the case with air, good, or you flow the air against the filter top, the issues I've seen is when the air comes directly into a side of the typical round filter and the MAF signal starts swinging due to the turbulance. You can set it up in a way that you can "pressurize" it with outside air without hitting the filter side directly. So is better to study/test the piping you will use instead of moving the meter.

This happens with relocated to bumper filters, when you remove the bumper, is incredible how messy things get.

On those bumper filters, is the MAF right there next to the filter? Reason I asked is that where I was thinking about putting the MAF would be quite a ways from the filter. In fact probably 4 22* turns and 18"-20" of tube before the MAF. And probably pretty close to stock distance from the TB.

 

[lito]

Ok here's 1 more question. How much air does the car shaker put into the air box? Because I see that they put the air on the side of a CAI filter.

Sincerely don't know, never played with a shaker pipe locally.

On those bumper filters, is the MAF right there next to the filter? Reason I asked is that where I was thinking about putting the MAF would be quite a ways from the filter. In fact probably 4 22* turns and 18"-20" of tube before the MAF. And probably pretty close to stock distance from the TB.

Issue comes when the filter is at the MAF housing, if you sensor is far from it, like some versions of KB intake pipes, you will have no issue with this. BTW, with the bumper installed these kits perform without issues, only when you removed the bumper and air hits directly on the filter side.

 

[07 Boss]

Ok here's 1 more question. How much air does the car shaker put into the air box? Because I see that they put the air on the side of a CAI filter.

Without it being sealed up with the intake I really don't see it blowing that much air. It's whatever gets forced into the scoop and down the tube over the filter. So if it was sealed to your intake the motor would suck the air through.

 

[JeremyH]

Ram air is a myth at vehicle speeds for a na motor.

Leave the stock air box or get a tune with an aftermarket cai.

//

 

[Pentalab]

Ram air is a myth at vehicle speeds for a na motor.

Leave the stock air box or get a tune with an aftermarket cai.

//

Aside from bringing in real cold air..and not hot air from under the hood, you are correct.... ram air is a myth.

Air pressure is .00256 X (velocity squared). When u double the airspeed, the pressure will quadruple. IE: 50 mph = (50x50) x .00256 = 6.25 lbs PER SQUARE FOOT. 6.25 / 144 = .0434 PSI....... which is dick.

Even at 100 mph, ( 100 x 100) x .00256 = 25.6 lbs per sq foot.
25.6 /144 = .1777 PSI....which is also dick. Even at 200 mph, air pressure is only .711 psi.

What the 7 bar upper grille does for the 2010 car is it eliminates 2 x 90 bends into the 'snorkel' that feeds the oem airbox. Now that does work, and my boost increased from 5.8 psi...to 6.3 psi.... @ 60 mph.

I Dunno what happens if you took something like a 8" diam cylinder..and slowly tapered /necked it down to say 4-5". The pressure may increase slightly.