NOT Another...Yes...another auotx build thread

[Conekiller]

I must not be driving aggresively enough or something. While its not difficult to get the rear to step out, with 450f/225r springs(need more in the front still) I still find the car putting down power suprisingly well. When I had 450f/175r I actually had a hard time getting the car to throttle steer coming out of corners unless I was very abrubt with the throttle.

 

[white86hatch]

I must not be driving aggresively enough or something. While its not difficult to get the rear to step out, with 450f/225r springs(need more in the front still) I still find the car putting down power suprisingly well. When I had 450f/175r I actually had a hard time getting the car to throttle steer coming out of corners unless I was very abrubt with the throttle.

Lol. You gotta be mean to it. Mash the gas!

 

[Whiskey11]

I can't argue the Watts in STX/STU, as we added ours after making the jump to ESP. Wold it allow the car to put power down better? Because that's what this car sorely lacks. And now with 70% of the aftermarket Watts links illegal until 1/1/2015, I'd simply recommend to most people to add one and "cheat", then wait for the rules to catch up with reality. This 8 month delay in writing a 7 word rules fix, then stalling it so it cannot be applied to 2014, is unacceptable beyond belief. Oh well, they can keep ignoring the aftermarket and pushing the S197 folks away from SCCA Solo year after year.

As for rear tires not overheating on an STX V8 powered S197... cannot say how you could get them to last 7 consecutive runs, even with 100 fewer horsepower? How competitive was it? How conservative were the drivers?

In the video below I was dancing on the limit of rear tire adhesion just about every time I touched the throttle. We even saw wheelspin in 3rd gear briefly, one a couple of runs. I was holding back the easy-to-achieve "driftoro" driving by an extreme amount, and trying not to let the tires spin for more than a second. This took extreme throttle control, even with stock power levels on this 5.0L powered car (380 whp is about avg for a 5.0L car like this).


Click above for "wheelcam" video from Mark's 2012 Mustang in STU, from an SCCA autocross yesterday

We have more videos coming from this "test" event we ran in STU, but my photo/video guru is busy making some printed materials for an upcoming event, so I just threw this quick "wheel cam" video together, from my 5th run. The car has the stock panhard rod, which allows the axle to move laterally by a large amount (visible in this video). Car owner Mark was riding through with me on this my 5th and final run, but I nearly matched my fastest official time in X class (my 3rd). I took passengers on both my 4th and 5th runs, since they didn't count.

Anyway... I feel like it is all too easy to spin/overheat the rear tires on virtually any solid axle RWD car I've ever autocrossed on street tires. But maybe I'm an anomaly and just overdrive everything like an asshat, heh.

edit: apparently this car has 550/250 spring rates. oops!

Thanks,

Sorry for the delay in response, I was out eating with the family.

Keep in mind my car comes rated at 300 HP and 320 lb*ft of torque from the factory and is probably making 270 RWHP, 290 lb*ft of torque. The way the car is setup, with the rear roll center in the highest location on the Fays2 Watts link, there is just a touch of throttle oversteer at the extreme end of the pedal travel. Just enough to make correction to the angle if necessary. That is with a nearly shot Traction-Lok. The nice thing is that you can drive this car very easily with the throttle and neither of us were holding back as we were trying to beat each other afterall! .

My Co-Driver is a local instructor, been to Nationals plenty of times, seems to be in the upper mid pack in each class he runs there. He's no slouch of a driver. My times were within tenths of his during the Nebraskhana when we faced off against each other.

After the Nebraskhana, the car went on to be 14th in PAX right in front of our local CP hotshoe (another midpacker Nationally unfortunately) at the solo event the day after so the car is at least somewhat competitive locally. Nationally, not so much. About 2.3 seconds behind Doug Hitchcock's old STX E30 which PAXed in at 3rd place at the same event, running literally 2 cars behind me. He is our resident "alien" who normally drives a CSP Miata (4th in Nationals last year).

Anyway, it's hard for me to describe exactly how the car drives but it's not a tire burner like the 5.0 seems to be. I wont pollute his thread with more details, but they, videos et al, can be found in my thread.

An interesting observation is that Conekiller and I are both using the Fays2 Watts link and IIRC he's also in the top position on his. That would traditionally be significantly higher than the PHB but the geometry is far more stable than the PHB configuration. I did notice the lateral displacement of the rear axle in the video.

 

[Vorshlag-Fair]

Have since found out the Mark's car has a Torsen T-2R and stiffer springs than I had posted in my first video intro (550F/250R).

Thanks,

 

[zquez]

I wonder if I need the shorter endlink with my 4150s. I had a he'll of a time getting those damn things on. The sway actually sits on the control arm at full droop with the links installed.

 

[csamsh]

I wonder if I need the shorter endlink with my 4150s. I had a he'll of a time getting those damn things on. The sway actually sits on the control arm at full droop with the links installed.

Post a picture, we can tell you.

 

[zquez]

The best picture I have on file.

 

[zquez]

I must not be driving aggresively enough or something. While its not difficult to get the rear to step out, with 450f/225r springs(need more in the front still) I still find the car putting down power suprisingly well. When I had 450f/175r I actually had a hard time getting the car to throttle steer coming out of corners unless I was very abrubt with the throttle.

You know what's funny? I have the same feeling with my supercharged 444 rwhp '06 with those spring rates. But I think I also have a lean tune that is pulling some power. The car seems to run best when its like 90 degrees outside. I always assumed it was either that or the fact that Im running a 285/305 stagger. Maybe the car just puts the power down that well.

 

[2013MustangGT]

The best picture I have on file.

It looks as if you need a shorter one. I know on mine I have a Whiteline BRZ end link.

 

[csamsh]

The best picture I have on file.

You need the shorter ones, you have the welded on brackets. Talk to Terry, he will hook you up.

 

[zquez]

Shit hot. I'll call him asap. Maybe that'll explain my push as well.

 

[csamsh]

Shit hot. I'll call him asap. Maybe that'll explain my push as well.

Oh yeah, read my first couple posts in this thread...it makes an EPIC push, and it's all (mostly) cured once you get rid of all that preload.

 

[sheizasosay]

That's one place I would imagine electric cars would do good. Completely perfect, linear throttle (possibly). Road racing with a blower is fun, but it's too bad someone doesn't make an RPM programmable, electric bypass to control that 2nd/3rd gear torque on throttle where the bypass opens and dumps the boost in fairly aggressively. Not saying its not fun, but I certainly feel you on your rear power/traction/drifting/high-maintenance-throttle-management/insert next slash or hyphen over-kill word here.


edit-this was referencing Vorhslag's "too much power" problem.

 

[ArizonaGT]

It looks as if you need a shorter one. I know on mine I have a Whiteline BRZ end link.

 

[leviathon]

Hmm. Looks very similar to mine right now, I probably need a solution as well

You need the shorter ones, you have the welded on brackets. Talk to Terry, he will hook you up.

 

[Vorshlag-Fair]

Yea, we figured this endlink thing out on the AST 4150 fronts... after AST made a running production change on the swaybar bracket, effectively moving it down almost 2 inches, the stock length (approx 10-3/4") front swaybar endlinks don't work. If you manage to fit the stock length endlinks onto the S197 4150, the end of the front swaybar will very likely touch the lower control arm, adding a massive roll couple under load, which can cause understeer that you cannot seem to get rid of.

We rummaged through the Whiteline catalog and put together a much shorter endlink package that works with the new 4150 on the S197 Mustang, oh... about a month ago (above), however. Call us and we can get these for you - we have a few sets in stock for just this situation.



We've already sold these shorter WL endlinks and fixed this issue on three AST 4150 installs recently (the two cars above and Mark's car below) including AST sets not sold by Vorshlag. We've notified AST of the issue but they aren't changing anything, as the swaybar bracket used where they weld it makes more ride height adjustment room. So we've added these shorter WL endlinks to our 4150 product page as an option... a strongly suggested option.

Again - give our guys a call if you have the newer AST 4150 struts for the S197, which have the fixed/welded swaybar brackets, shown below. The earlier 4100s had an adjustable swaybar bracket that looked nothing like this. We can get these to you and fix this binding issue - 972-422-7170.



Thanks,

 

[zquez]

Terry,

You guys have a voicemail from me.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[csamsh]

Short update for everybody:

Read Terry's update to see how the car did at Texas SCCA's July autox. I'll say it was a qualified success-

The car is wwwwaaaayyy better on 285's and light 18x10" wheels than it was on 265's with heavy 19x9" wheels. Lots more fun.

Ultimately- we're still tilting at windmills. STU pax=.849, ESP=.849. SO what that says is I should be able to swap giant A6's onto my car and improve by less than half a second....rrriiiight.

Video of runs 4 and 5, with captions and commentary:



I'm signed up in STU again for Texas SCCA this weekend. Seems like the same people that ran in STU last time, let's see if I can win the class. This isn't a nationally competitive STU field...not by a longshot...but people who want to run a Mustang in STU probably aren't interested in Nationals. They should go play in ESP, which, honestly, is where I want to play. I've done the R-Comp drug just enough to want MORE. Back on track- this is a good field to "test" against if you're me, who has probably done about 75 autocross runs ever. These are regional folks, everyday autocrossers who drive to the event. These cars in STU are fun. I had a blast last month wheeling it on the street tires. That's why I autocross- it's fun. I'd rather autocross than go to a big track... ¯\(°_°)/¯

I just happen to like cars in the vein of Mustangs, Camaros, and other stuff. People have said "get a Miata"

My philosophy:

 

[Norm Peterson]

""This video is unavailable" ↑↑↑

Can't seem to load Terry's video from post #84 either.


Norm

 

[csamsh]

""This video is unavailable" ↑↑↑

Can't seem to load Terry's video from post #84 either.


Norm

still uploading...1080p problemz