Relocation Brackets

[steve13gt]

Please see my updated picture...

So my only real question is, if that Arc was taken into consideration, then a stock ride height vehicle, with your relocation bracket, and your control arms at the factory length, will have NO affect on pinion angle, or center the tire in the wheel well (shortening or lengthening wheel base, so the tire sits further or closer to the front)

 

[steve13gt]

I believe my pulling issue was due to one of the LCAs being incorrect length, or one of the holes drilled into the relocation bracket was drilled too far forward or back.

I do have to say I am extremely picky, and this "pull" may not even be detectable by some, but it was there. I adjusted from there, and I believe both control arms are the intended length.

My biggest grief was the "technical" support just said, that they didn't know, and that your relocation brackets would affect pinion angle and that I should "maybe" lengthen them around 1/2"

My only other concern, was after having these install for maybe a week, one of the bolts/nuts pulled their threads apart. The bolt was not cross threaded, and was torqued as per the instructions. This caused this bolt to be "loose" but I was unable to remove it without a nut splitter. I can post a picture of the bolt if you'd like.
I replaced both of the LCA bolts (silver ones course thread) with the stock blue bolts.

Before anyone questions, I am a licensed technician, I didn't cross thread them. If I did, I wouldn't post this on a public forum

 

[sheizasosay]

Please see my updated picture...

So my only real question is, if that Arc was taken into consideration, then a stock ride height vehicle, with your relocation bracket, and your control arms at the factory length, will have NO affect on pinion angle, or center the tire in the wheel well (shortening or lengthening wheel base, so the tire sits further or closer to the front)

If the arc is there, which it is according to whiteline , then no affect on pinion angle with your above listed conditions. Changing length of uca alters pinion angle, so does changing length of lca's, so does ride heigth. What does come to mind from your description is twisted axle tubes.
http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1434596#post1434596

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[Red_Devil]

I believe my pulling issue was due to one of the LCAs being incorrect length, or one of the holes drilled into the relocation bracket was drilled too far forward or back.

I do have to say I am extremely picky, and this "pull" may not even be detectable by some, but it was there. I adjusted from there, and I believe both control arms are the intended length.

My biggest grief was the "technical" support just said, that they didn't know, and that your relocation brackets would affect pinion angle and that I should "maybe" lengthen them around 1/2"

My only other concern, was after having these install for maybe a week, one of the bolts/nuts pulled their threads apart. The bolt was not cross threaded, and was torqued as per the instructions. This caused this bolt to be "loose" but I was unable to remove it without a nut splitter. I can post a picture of the bolt if you'd like.
I replaced both of the LCA bolts (silver ones course thread) with the stock blue bolts.

Before anyone questions, I am a licensed technician, I didn't cross thread them. If I did, I wouldn't post this on a public forum

Since the arms are assembled in a jig, it would be hard for them to be off. But stuff happens, which is why we say to check length against your stock arms. The holes actually aren't drilled, they are precision laser cut, so that couldn't happen. Shoot me an email, and lets get your other issues looked at and resolved. I promise I will make sure you are a happy customer!

 

[steve13gt]

Just for reference

 

[steve13gt]

Waiting on your reply whiteline, I emailed you

 

[sheizasosay]

Any updates?


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[kevinatfms]

you must have a bad set. i removed my UMI brackets to install the whiteline product as i felt the design was a bit more "beefy" at the side welds. only gripe is one single mounting position, which did work for my situation but may not work as well for others.

 

[Red_Devil]

I think Steve can update, I did talk to him and he was not having any issues and I had replacement hardware to him and asked him to keep me in the loop if there were any more issues.

 

[BMR Tech]

Jared, what are you guys seeing to work the best for IC location and AS % on the typical corner carving combination?

We have actually found that most settings that work "well" for a drag racer, work very well for our road racers running our components.

 

[Sky Render]

Jared, what are you guys seeing to work the best for IC location and AS % on the typical corner carving combination?

I don't have an angle finder, but you can see that my relocation brackets (we corner-carvers often call these "anti-squat" brackets) are less aggressive than those used for drag racing. The objective is reduced squat on acceleration (obviously) and improved roll steering characteristics without the wheelhop on braking caused by more aggressive angles.

 

[BMR Tech]

Are you being serious? That looks pretty aggressive to me?

I would be willing your "anti-squat" percentage is higher than you "think"

Measure the center of the upper bolt to the center of the LCA bolt, let me know what you come up with.

 

[BMR Tech]

And I know what these do. We were mass producing these well before anyone even considered making them.

 

[Sky Render]

Are you being serious? That looks pretty aggressive to me?

I would be willing your "anti-squat" percentage is higher than you "think"

Measure the center of the upper bolt to the center of the LCA bolt, let me know what you come up with.

The length of the bracket is irrelevant, because the angle of the control arm and thus anti-squat percentage is dependent on vehicle height. My car has been lowered and therefore has a lower anti-squat percentage than if this were installed on a stock-ride-height vehicle.

And, yes, I have seen more aggressive LCA angles on cars set up primarily for drag racing, though I'm not sure what brand of brackets they were using.

And I know what these do. We were mass producing these well before anyone even considered making them.

I wasn't trying to insult your intelligence and apologize if I did. You said in another thread you were considering marketing handling packages for corner carving, so I was giving you some marketing advice.

 

[BMR Tech]

I am aware that bracket length does not play a role in determining the angle, AS% and IC point.

However, I am wanting to know exactly how far you dropped your arm from the stock position. My reasoning is based on your comment about YOUR combo being less aggressive. From the looks, it actually appears to be very aggressive. I typically have my customers who corner carve, run the arm in the top position on our CAB005 brackets....which is 2" lower than the stock hole. The greater the distance from the stock position, of course, the more aggressive the angle is.

I am waiting for Jared to reply about AS% and IC angle. This could be a very good conversation, and I would love to know how they chose that "single" mounting location.

 

[Chim-Chim]

Sky, that does look more aggressive than typical. You don't notice any roll oversteer?

Kelly, Norm and I discussed angles a while back (search should find it). Norm brought his always helpful info and also posted some spreadsheets.

FWIW, I have mine a degree or two from level (uphill towards axle), giving a slight bias towards roll understeer. I've tried a setup that was more aggressive and oversteer, especially on sharp turn-in, was more than a handful.

 

[BMR Tech]

Sky, that does look more aggressive than typical. You don't notice any roll oversteer?

Kelly, Norm and I discussed angles a while back (search should find it). Norm brought his always helpful info and also posted some spreadsheets.

FWIW, I have mine a degree or two from level (uphill towards axle), giving a slight bias towards roll understeer. I've tried a setup that was more aggressive and oversteer, especially on sharp turn-in, was more than a handful.

Yeah, I remember those posts by Norm, and agreed mostly with them.

Van @ Revan Racing is having good results running his LCA angle VERY aggressive on his 2013 GT500. Here he is exiting Turn 1 at Sebring at around 100 MPH with the go pedal to the floor:

 

[DRock]

Yeah, I remember those posts by Norm, and agreed mostly with them.

Van @ Revan Racing is having good results running his LCA angle VERY aggressive on his 2013 GT500. Here he is exiting Turn 1 at Sebring at around 100 MPH with the go pedal to the floor:

Hot damn he is getting it.

My Lca's are placed in the second hole of the new BMR brackets with a slight downward angle toward the axle. the car was damn near perfect tell i put my hellwig rear bar on. Now the rear comes around a little tooo much

 

[Vorshlag-Fair]

The relocation amount in the Whiteline brackets is a lot, but they aren't radically different than BMRs or other places designs (other than the lack of more adjustments), from what I can see. These have been around awhile from many vendors and the anti-squat changes are a noticeable improvement for lowered S197s that track or autocross. I am not a drag racer so I cannot comment on those aspects.

Many SCCA autocross classes that the S197 falls into do not allow pick-up point changes, so these style rear relocation brackets (and most "anti-lift" front roll center kits) cannot be used in FS, STX, ESP or even SMOD classes. But for other clubs/classes/groups these types of rear relocation bracket kits should be on your short list for mods, after you have the car lowered, on good shocks, real spring rates and adjustable bars. We have done one autocross and two track days with these Whiteline brackets installed and immediately noticed a difference in rear squat and forward traction.

Cheers,

 

[steve13gt]

No real update as of yet, I am waiting on new hardware. I developed a clunk back there but won't bother getting into it until I replace the bolts. I am a little iffy on the quality of supplied bolts but I will get them another chance. Only other thing that bothers me is lack of washer with this kit, any reason for it? also just wondering, does anyone else get quite a bit of whine from their rear with whiteline LCAs? I thought they were supposed to be quieter than poly bushings but I get alot of whine over 60 mph. If there is a quieter option that still performs I will try them out.