road racing..

[srt2stang725]

Is the average price for a day at the road course 250+? I would love to get into it, but i cannot spend that much everytime i want to go racing. Are there cheaper alternatives to it?

 

[SoundGuyDave]

A lot of it is track and organization dependent, but that is in the ballpark (towards the higher end of the scale) of what you're going to pay for a single track day.

Your best bet is to run a full weekend, which can range from 300-400 depending on the crew running the event.

Road racing is a LOT more expensive than drag racing, but the costs to stage an event are considerably higher, thus the price difference. Instead of 3/8 of a mile of track to pave and maintain, and a staff of maybe six or so for the track, you're looking at three to four miles of racing surface, and a staff of around twenty to thirty. Insurance costs for the event promoter are also a LOT higher.

Unlike the drag strip, however, admission is strictly limited in terms of numbers, and you'll get more time running the car in one session (of four, five or six per day) than you'll get in an entire day at the strip. If you want to compare costs, think "private buyout" of the drag strip for the day, for you and about 20 of your buddies. That's the kind of vibe you'll get at the road course, but with a lot higher car count, since the track is huge in comparison.

There are ways to cut costs for a season, but not really for an event. Most organizations use volunteers for the bulk of their staff, and by volunteering your services, you earn points which are redeemable for "free" track time. With experience, you can also become an instructor, which gets you free track time as well... They usually need help with T&S (timing and scoring), grid marshalling, corner workers, tech inspection and impound, safety crew, instructors, etc.

It's a whole different world than a drag strip outing, and yes, it's expensive, but it's a LOT more addictive than crack....

 

[srt2stang725]

A lot of it is track and organization dependent, but that is in the ballpark (towards the higher end of the scale) of what you're going to pay for a single track day.

Your best bet is to run a full weekend, which can range from 300-400 depending on the crew running the event.

Road racing is a LOT more expensive than drag racing, but the costs to stage an event are considerably higher, thus the price difference. Instead of 3/8 of a mile of track to pave and maintain, and a staff of maybe six or so for the track, you're looking at three to four miles of racing surface, and a staff of around twenty to thirty. Insurance costs for the event promoter are also a LOT higher.

Unlike the drag strip, however, admission is strictly limited in terms of numbers, and you'll get more time running the car in one session (of four, five or six per day) than you'll get in an entire day at the strip. If you want to compare costs, think "private buyout" of the drag strip for the day, for you and about 20 of your buddies. That's the kind of vibe you'll get at the road course, but with a lot higher car count, since the track is huge in comparison.

There are ways to cut costs for a season, but not really for an event. Most organizations use volunteers for the bulk of their staff, and by volunteering your services, you earn points which are redeemable for "free" track time. With experience, you can also become an instructor, which gets you free track time as well... They usually need help with T&S (timing and scoring), grid marshalling, corner workers, tech inspection and impound, safety crew, instructors, etc.

It's a whole different world than a drag strip outing, and yes, it's expensive, but it's a LOT more addictive than crack....

Thanks for the informative response! Lol @the crack comment. I want to try it so bad. Since I have no experience, would you recommend i autox first? Do the two coincide with eachother, i would think so but i also have no idea what im talking about haha.....I see why the cost is much higher, and i figured that was an average price, i was just hoping that my broke ass could do it more often...but with that price i will have to attend sparingly

 

[STEVE_POE]

wow, soundguydave to the T

It's a whole different world than a drag strip outing, and yes, it's expensive, but it's a LOT more addictive than crack....

Yes , yes it is.

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Thanks for the informative response! Lol @the crack comment. I want to try it so bad. Since I have no experience, would you recommend i autox first? Do the two coincide with eachother, i would think so but i also have no idea what im talking about haha.....I see why the cost is much higher, and i figured that was an average price, i was just hoping that my broke ass could do it more often...but with that price i will have to attend sparingly

Well.... Autocross and open-track are SORT of the same things, kind of like comparing a chamber quartet to a full symphony orchestra.

You can learn some of the basic mechanics of turning at speed on an autocross track, however, it pales in comparison to running a full open track. Speeds at an autocross event rarely get up there very high, but (for example) at Road America, there are three spots on the track that I can break 135mph, and do it every single lap of the session (save the warm-up lap, of course). No supercharger, no built motor, no turbos. Coming into turn five at speed, and then braking to around 40mph, can be nearly a religious experience, and flying through the kink up there in excess of 100MPH positively IS a religious experience. There's no way that running through cones at 35-45mph in a parking lot can equal that, from a sense of pure adrenalin.

My advice to you would be to buy a set of brake pads, like Hawk HP-Plus, go to nasaproracing.com, find your region, and then sign up for a weekend in HPDE-1. That's the entry-level group, and the sweet thing about it is that you will have your own personal instructor assigned to you to ride along in all your sessions and teach you the fine art of driving at high speeds. Whatever you know about braking and turning, throw it out the window, it's a LOT different out on the track. There is no additional charge for your instructor, which is what makes this really such a good value.

The reason that I recommend a weekend, rather than a single day, is that it will take you a full day just to get acclimatized to the situation, and start learning what's really going on. The second day, you will see tremendous progress in your confidence, entry and exit speeds, as well as car control skills. One day is just enough to dip a toe in the water, you'll learn to swim on the second day.

What region are you in?

 

[srt2stang725]

once again thanks for the info! i am in the northeast (ny) im checking out the site now.

 

[DusterRT]

Another option that would be a cheap way to get a taste (this is what I did) was join the BMW CCA ( http://www.bmwcca.org/ ), and enroll in their Car Control Clinic (CCC). While it is a BMW club, you do not need a BMW to join or participate in club functions. I was slightly concerned about a nose-up attitude towards my "inferior" car, my experience with both participants and instructors has been nothing short of great so far.

The CCC is basically the prerequisite to running any other events they host. The one I went to cost $125 for the day (but you have to have your car tech inspected and signed off by an ASE cert'd shop before every event, figure $35-50 for that too).

Anyway, the first half of the day was spent going over basic low speed car controls and manuvering and eventually built up to a small auto-x course. After lunch, you go out and take a few "parade laps" around the road course while the open track guys are on their lunch break. You're far from running full-tilt but you get a little taste of what it looks like from the driver's seat. After that comes your free hit of crack, riding along with instructors as they haul ass around the course! After you finish the CCC, you're able to enroll in open track/lapping days where you'll drive with an instructor on the big track and finalize your addiction. Then you can start moving up the tiers until you're flying solo. Also, expect to find yourself selling off your things/wives/girlfriends/children to feed the habit (don't worry, completely normal).

As far as auto-x vs. road racing..no comparison. Auto-x is fun in a quick, cheap, chaotic way but I have a hard time convincing myself it's worth $30-$40 to spend almost an entire day setting up, working the course, and tearing down for maybe 5 minutes of cumulative seat time (and in my case, it's a good 60-80 miles each way to events on top of that). Road racing has a better dollar to seat time ratio; but you get a lot more seat time so it is more expensive..

 

[blk08GT]

Not sure where you are in NY but if you can come out to one of the NASA/PDA events at Pocono(check the NASA site for schedules). They have several road courses and for the most part there is ample run off in the corners also if you get to run the south course it uses NASCAR turn one with the high banking, lot's a fun. As others have mentioned its very addicting, so be prepared. I did my first track day last year and nothing you can do on the street will prepare you for going all out on the track.

I thought the cost was pricey too but it's a bargain when you think about the amount of track time you get plus an instructor. In HDPE-1 you also get a classroom instruction.

 

[x96283]

Not sure where you are in NY but if you can come out to one of the NASA/PDA events at Pocono(check the NASA site for schedules). They have several road courses and for the most part there is ample run off in the corners also if you get to run the south course it uses NASCAR turn one with the high banking, lot's a fun. As others have mentioned its very addicting, so be prepared. I did my first track day last year and nothing you can do on the street will prepare you for going all out on the track.

I thought the cost was pricey too but it's a bargain when you think about the amount of track time you get plus an instructor. In HDPE-1 you also get a classroom instruction.

I'm at Pocono right now and just completed day one in a regional Corvette club outing. I'm the token late model Mustang :0 Our track today is Turn 3, in reverse, into the infield through 4 turns and back onto the big Turn 3 sweeper. A little over a mile in length.

Yes its crack. And dare I say it... better than drag racing? I get to drive a whole lot longer than 11 sec at a time

My fee for the two days is 300. Four sessions per day, about 15 min each session, ride-along instructor for knowledge sharing, plus 4 hours classroom instruction.

 

[ZmanM3]

Well.... Autocross and open-track are SORT of the same things, kind of like comparing a chamber quartet to a full symphony orchestra.

You can learn some of the basic mechanics of turning at speed on an autocross track, however, it pales in comparison to running a full open track. Speeds at an autocross event rarely get up there very high, but (for example) at Road America, there are three spots on the track that I can break 135mph, and do it every single lap of the session (save the warm-up lap, of course). No supercharger, no built motor, no turbos. Coming into turn five at speed, and then braking to around 40mph, can be nearly a religious experience, and flying through the kink up there in excess of 100MPH positively IS a religious experience. There's no way that running through cones at 35-45mph in a parking lot can equal that, from a sense of pure adrenalin.

My advice to you would be to buy a set of brake pads, like Hawk HP-Plus, go to nasaproracing.com, find your region, and then sign up for a weekend in HPDE-1. That's the entry-level group, and the sweet thing about it is that you will have your own personal instructor assigned to you to ride along in all your sessions and teach you the fine art of driving at high speeds. Whatever you know about braking and turning, throw it out the window, it's a LOT different out on the track. There is no additional charge for your instructor, which is what makes this really such a good value.

The reason that I recommend a weekend, rather than a single day, is that it will take you a full day just to get acclimatized to the situation, and start learning what's really going on. The second day, you will see tremendous progress in your confidence, entry and exit speeds, as well as car control skills. One day is just enough to dip a toe in the water, you'll learn to swim on the second day.

What region are you in?

Are you talking about the Road America in WI? I grew up 30 min from there, my parents still live there actually. I've been thinking of taking my car there if I can ever manage to be home on a weekend they have something going on I can go to.

 

[blk08GT]

I'm at Pocono right now and just completed day one in a regional Corvette club outing. I'm the token late model Mustang :0 Our track today is Turn 3, in reverse, into the infield through 4 turns and back onto the big Turn 3 sweeper. A little over a mile in length.

Yes its crack. And dare I say it... better than drag racing? I get to drive a whole lot longer than 11 sec at a time

My fee for the two days is 300. Four sessions per day, about 15 min each session, ride-along instructor for knowledge sharing, plus 4 hours classroom instruction.

Someone from another board told me about this event, I was going to go but family obligations got in the way. I've done that course, I thinks it's the north course. It's fun coming out of the infield up to the wall at full throttle. If you can sign up for the NASA grand slam weekend in July. I did that last year and we had seven runs during one day, 2 on the north course, 2 on the east course and 3 on the south course. Each run was about 1/2 hour.

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Are you talking about the Road America in WI? I grew up 30 min from there, my parents still live there actually. I've been thinking of taking my car there if I can ever manage to be home on a weekend they have something going on I can go to.

Yessir, I certainly am... I'm heading up there this weekend, as a matter of fact, for the NASA event. If you're in town, come on out, if not, let me know when you're going, and I'll gladly meet you up there. ANY excuse is a good one to get out on that track... Truly world class.

Oh, and don't forget to hit Siebkin's!

 

[ZmanM3]

Yessir, I certainly am... I'm heading up there this weekend, as a matter of fact, for the NASA event. If you're in town, come on out, if not, let me know when you're going, and I'll gladly meet you up there. ANY excuse is a good one to get out on that track... Truly world class.

Oh, and don't forget to hit Siebkin's!

Haha, I'm stationed in MO which is the closest I've been stationed to home ever but its still an 8 hour drive, so on 4 day weekends I sometimes try to get up there. Up till he sold his body shop and tow buisness my friend Mike Simon operated one of the tow trucks over weekend events that they had there last year.

 

[Random Asshole]

Well for those who want track time for a "cheaper" cost and you live in the midwest, look into the Midwestern Sports Car Council. I'm in one of the affiliated clubs (north suburban sports car council). They run "High Speed Autocross" which is basically the timed lap format of autocross, but on a real race track. It's nice because you can run ANY car, ANY prep level, and even get an instructor to ride with you on your practice sessions if you are a novice. It's the cheapest way to have fun and compete on a race track even if your car is stock. They usually run about $150, which ain't bad if you think about it.

 

[SoundGuyDave]

Yeah, Council is a good crew...

 

[fhlh]

a REALLY cheap way to try road racing is to get on with a 24 Hours of LeMons Team.
I've done the race down here in the Houston area (Motorsports Ranch) twice and OMG is it a blast! This is what has gotten me into Road Racing (plus I have a good friend that runs GT2 911's every other month).
I personally can't wait to get my GOGT out to MSR for a chance to run it around the track for a day... It's worth the money!
http://www.24hoursoflemons.com/

 

[Random Asshole]

Well for those who want track time for a "cheaper" cost and you live in the midwest, look into the Midwestern Sports Car Council. I'm in one of the affiliated clubs (north suburban sports car council). They run "High Speed Autocross" which is basically the timed lap format of autocross, but on a real race track. It's nice because you can run ANY car, ANY prep level, and even get an instructor to ride with you on your practice sessions if you are a novice. It's the cheapest way to have fun and compete on a race track even if your car is stock. They usually run about $150, which ain't bad if you think about it.

Edit: It cost 90 bucks for the autocross event on memorial day. If you aren't a member, it may be like 15 bucks more. So if anyone in the midwest wants to do this more than twice (and u will), you might as well join the council (50 bucks) and get the discounted rate every time you run. I'm doing a track day on the 23rd at blackhawk for $150. That's prolly the best "bang for the buck" you are gonna find. Should be a good time. Lookin at the entry list so far: Audi R8, Porsche GT2, Vipers, Termi Cobras, Vettes, an Elise, and a plethora of Evos and STi's. Should be a good show.

For the rest of you outside of the midwest: lookup myautoevents.com, trackdaze, mvptracktime.com for stuff like this nearest you.

If you're a rookie, don't worry. Just don't do anything you aren't comfortable with and let people by if you aren't as quick. Also be prepared to probably destroy your front brakes (depending on the course and your driving style) Thank god for newtakeoffs.com

 

[Thinkkker]

Also be prepared to probably destroy your front brakes (depending on the course and your driving style) Thank god for newtakeoffs.com

I have always had issues with rear brakes. With stock pads it would eat through to metal in under a weekend. For most noobies, I do not forsee this problem.

Just as a note, A DE is a DE, its not a race. Do not treat it as one, please. Instructors are there to teach you how to drive fast, and depending on the course you can take out your car quick if you are over zealous.

There is always truth to the old saying, if you arent willing to push it off a cliff, then do not tke it racing. DE's are safer, but you can and probably will screw up at some point. This is why I am not out on track with mine anymore.

 

[SoundGuyDave]

I have always had issues with rear brakes. With stock pads it would eat through to metal in under a weekend. For most noobies, I do not forsee this problem.

Just as a note, A DE is a DE, its not a race. Do not treat it as one, please. Instructors are there to teach you how to drive fast, and depending on the course you can take out your car quick if you are over zealous.

There is always truth to the old saying, if you arent willing to push it off a cliff, then do not tke it racing. DE's are safer, but you can and probably will screw up at some point. This is why I am not out on track with mine anymore.

The last two points should be well taken, he's dead right. That said, however, as you climb the "HPDE ladder," you WILL increase your corner entry speed and shorten your braking zone, and that will lead to accelerated brake wear.

Chewing through the rear pads, though, tells me that you're leaving the Traction Control engaged. The TC logic circuit applies rear brakes to help keep the car stable, and that's the ONLY reason that you would eat up the rears. Under braking, the rears do so little work, that it's hard to wear them out. In the last year, I've gone through five sets of front pads, and I have five sets of 30-40% worn rear pads, and those are race sets.

 

[Thinkkker]

Chewing through the rear pads, though, tells me that you're leaving the Traction Control engaged. The TC logic circuit applies rear brakes to help keep the car stable, and that's the ONLY reason that you would eat up the rears. Under braking, the rears do so little work, that it's hard to wear them out. In the last year, I've gone through five sets of front pads, and I have five sets of 30-40% worn rear pads, and those are race sets.

Guarantee I didn't. Also, it has not been just mine. I instructed with SVT out at TWS in '05. They brought a 05 Mustang GT *one of the first ones then....* and burned through the rears. I went out with under 5000 miles and killed the rears on mine.

For some reason the car does not like stock pads, I am not sure what it is. Throw on some "race" pads and they last. I have not checked temps on the brakes when I came off, but the only thing I could come up with is that the temps in the rear just burned off pads. I have no tech to back this up. Just know that the stock rear pads died on track .