Roll Cages Road Race/Autocross/Driving Days vs Drag Race

[TLeroux]

...what are the thoughts on an R3 with stock seats, 3-pt belt, and no roll bar? I've heard anything from "it can only help", to "you're making things worse" for any such HANS-ish eqpt without a roll bar. For what I've researched, I'm leaning towards the "it can only help" camp, especially in a non-roll event. And with the 3-pt seatbelt (for which the R3 is the ONLY device that can be .

So.. Simpson/Safety Solutions R3 = good in most or all cases? Are there any instructors here who use it hopping from (student) car to car?

I picked up an R3 specifically so I could wear it in my students' cars. There is more movement in a 3 point set up than there is when it locked down with shoulder straps, but it will limit how far you neck can snap forward. I also use it in MM roll bar equiped Mustang in TT and have used it for racing WTW. I'd say the only disadvantages are the limited ability to turn your head to see to the side, and a bit of discomfort sitting in the grid (never notice it on the track.)

 

[DILYSI Dave]

Does anyone see any faults in how these guys fab'd theirs?


http://forums.themustangsource.com/f660/daily-driver-rollbar-project-479304/

Unconventional, but given the need to take it in and out quickly, not bad.

The floor plates with the captured nuts I like. The splice plates up by the top of the hoop, I don't particularly like. Ideally the whole thing could have been one weldment. If not, I still think I'd rather see that joint slugged. But that's just me being picky. It's better than 90% of the bolt in stuff I've seen.

 

[jayman33]

I contacted Kirk racing today on a 4pt set up for our 13 Boss. After he told me the price and what it includes and after we talked, I'm picking one up tomorrow. They do have a 3 week turnaround but I can live with that.

Kind of depends on the car and the 4-point roll bar design. I've done several pre-made 4-point bar installs in various BMWs (E30, E36 and E46) made by Kirk Racing (I have no special deal with them - we're just a customer) and each install took almost zero visible interior mods. A slit of carpet here, a squeeze of a rear downbar between the backseat and interior panel, and some holes drilled out of sight. Their stuff always fit so well and you could easily remove the bar and nobody would have known without pulling up carpet to look for old holes.

This Kirk 4-point roll bar shown above went into this BMW E30 with almost no visible interior mods. Don't know if that is going to be possible for an S197. We'll bring our '11 GT back into the Vorshlag shop next week and take a closer look. I'm going to pick up a bunch of 1.75" x .120" DOM in a few minutes (for another project) but who knows?



Agreed - it would be pretty dumb to have passengers contort to get in the back seat with a roll bar in place, so if you are adding a roll bar yank the back seat. The only reason we ever keep the back seat in a car we have added a roll bar to is because they are usually being built to fit in some sort of SCCA autocross class, which almost never lets you pull interior pieces out. Even when you are trading 30 pounds of back seat for 60 pounds of roll bar. Logically they should allow the safety item to partially offset a removed back seat.

But logic plays NO part in the SCCA rule maker's minds.


Cheers,

 

[zquez]

I contacted Kirk racing today on a 4pt set up for our 13 Boss. After he told me the price and what it includes and after we talked, I'm picking one up tomorrow. They do have a 3 week turnaround but I can live with that.

Do you have any details or pictures of their setup?

 

[jayman33]

No I don't, just talked about it over the phone.

 

[Vorshlag-Fair]

deleted!

I found more data that made me change my mind about the Kirk S197 bar... please see my updated response below.

 

[Vorshlag-Fair]

After doing some searching we found a picture of the Kirk Racing 4-point S197 bar... well, it was somebody selling a used one, so it might be correct:

Notice the length of the main hoop downbars? Yep, it looks like it mounts to the floor. Which is weak sheet metal and could be a problem with a rollover. PLEASE call Kirk Racing to confirm.

Alternatively the Maximum Motorsports 4-point and 6-point bolt-in rollbars are made to bolt to the rear seat lower bulkhead, which is BEEFY and strong. Much thicker metal here than the floorpan in front of this spot. I would feel much safer with this style bar than one that bolts to the floor. So please, if you are thinking of a Kirk Racing bar based on my earlier posts (of BMW bars), please check with them to see how and where it mounts...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8znqNFX5HM

The guys at CJ Pony Parts made the installation video above for the 6-point Maximum bar. EXCELLENT VIDEO. It shows these key features...

That looks like the right way to do it. Safer than bolting to the floorpan sheetmetal. So if you like that style then get the Maximum. And since they did such a good job with the video, buy it through CJ Pony Parts (I have zero affiliation with these guys - other than watching their video). $577 for the 4-point version sure seems like a good price, to me.

That's just my two cents....

Edit: I forgot to mention to track guys - GET THE OPTIONAL DIAGONAL, +$100, add part # MM5RBO-1 to your shopping cart. The 6-point version is only for drag racing, so don't bother if you're tracking your car.

 

[SoundGuyDave]

The MM bar is a nice one! I would NOT bother with the 6-point, though, those "door bars" are pure drag-race and won't help you a bit on an open track. Do make sure you get the diagonal bar option, though!

 

[zquez]

EDIT: Dave beat me to it.

The more I think on it, I'm probably gonna end up getting one soon.

 

[Department Of Boost]

I've only just put my MM bar in and have not rolled the car over so I haven't tested it. But it sure seems nice to me and the price is good. Don't forget to get the diagonal down bar though, I did. Time to get the welder and some tubing out.

 

[2008 V6]

Notice the length of the main hoop downbars? Yep, it looks like it mounts to the floor. Which is weak sheet metal and could be a problem with a rollover. PLEASE call Kirk Racing to confirm.

++++++++++1

 

[jayman33]

Thanks, I'll talk to them about it. Never asked as I thought it would be common sense not to bolt to sheet metal. Calling tomorrow, tied up in class all day today.