S197 Chassis Stiffening Needed?

[Ivan 5.0]

Browsing Griggs website I came across the following note:

"The S197 (2005 and up) Mustangs have a significantly more rigid frame than previous year Mustangs, so we do not recommend any chassis stiffening for street, autocross and open track cars. However, if you are building a race car, frame stiffening is a valid option since you can never have a chassis that is too stiff in a race vehicle. In such applications, we still advise concentrating on removing excess weight first since the vehicle is heavy in stock form.

Except for racing, please do not be tempted to purchase chassis stiffeners offered for sale by some unscrupulous merchants and manufacturers. The only result of installing subframe connectors or frame stiffeners on an S197 Mustang or Shelby will be a heavier car and a lighter wallet."
​

So I checked a few other vendors:

• Kenny Brown has their Extreme Matrix System and Stifflers has their FIT system.
• Steeda offers their Three Point Frame Rail & Torque Box Brace. Maximum
• Motorsports does not offer something like that for the S197.

What are your thoughts?

Would chassis stiffening be a worth-while suspension upgrade?

 

[Sky Render]

Any vendor is going to sell you parts whether you really "need" them or not. Are you driving your car hard enough to actually notice the "flexibility" of the chassis? What are your goals? What type of motorsports are you competing in?

 

[BMR Tech]

We offer a very nice subframe connector for the S197 chassis. Two options actually.

I would surely not consider myself or the company I work for, an unscrupulous manufacturer. And I also tell each and every one of my customers that none of these parts are needed, but I thoroughly explain the advantages of each individual component that they are considering.

In all honesty, I (BMR) do not have to sell our SFC's. They sell themselves.

When a customer calls me and requests a set of our SFC011 or SFC012, I do not tell him they are a waste, but I do explain to them how much of an inprovement the S197 Chassis is over the prior platforms.

Often times, I will end up providing a customer with a small package of parts, in replacement of the SFC's.

BMR's view is, a vehicle chassis that has the ability to be stiffened...can always benefit from a quality set of SFC's.

On another note, I wouldn't have the time of day to sit here and post how many letters, emails, and phone calls that we have received from customers claiming that our SFC's "saved their lives" (BMR has been manufacturing SFC's for 14 years)

All in all, I would have to specifically discuss one's needs and goals to be able to reach a conclusion as to whether the SFC's will benefit their platform; in comparison to the other products available.

 

[pcdrj]

Would chassis stiffening be a worth-while suspension upgrade?

No, definitely not in a S197 chassis. Some manufactures produce a torque box but it's just extra weight. AI championship cars (Martin, Cobetto) and World Challenge champ Paul Brown don't run any. In fact this was a topic of discussion on FB and here's a quote from one builder, "Ford finally builds a car that is strong right out of the box and people still want to add "stiffeners". Really? Look under any professionally prepared newer Mustang, see any of this stuff?"

 

[Liftedbronco]

i do believe what is being said in your quote up there. With that said, I did the steeda 3 point braces welded on because i added alot of power to the car, and these braces bolster the frame mount for the LCA's. For the little cost, i like the peace of mind.

Also, there is the steeda brace that goes across between the front A arms. My car had a factory brace there, others ive seen had none. Seems to me that the older ones didnt get it. So I deduce that ford decided it was necessary. So with that said, i "upgraded" the somewhat wimpy factory one with the steeda g-trac brace. Not sure that i could feel a difference, but again...it was cheap.

 

[06GTMustang89]

I have the bmr subframe connectors (the boxed ones) welded in. As many of us know about how much stiffer our chassis is compared previous generations... I still saw room for improvement. After installing them... you could immediately feel the difference in how solid the car felt afterwards. Do you need them? No. Are they nice to have? Of course at least in my opinion.

 

[Liftedbronco]

and you know what those probably give you? as kenny brown says...jacking rails. which honestly is a nice thing to have

 

[BMR Tech]

You would be amazed at how many S197 owners purchase SFC's specifically to have convenient jacking points.

 

[DRock]

I plan on doing it brcauserepeated hard use of the Cr in any racing situation can lead to some kind of problems down the road

 

[06GTMustang89]

No, definitely not in a S197 chassis. Some manufactures produce a torque box but it's just extra weight. AI championship cars (Martin, Cobetto) and World Challenge champ Paul Brown don't run any."

wouldn't the reason they don't have subframe connectors and such is because they have full triangulated roll cages that provide outstanding chassis rigidity... making subrame connectors pointless and yes added weight in their circumstance?

 

[BAKnBLK2010]

On my 2011 GT you can put a floor jack underneath either front a arm and lift 3 wheels off of the ground. That's a pretty stiff chasis if you ask me.

 

[pcdrj]

This was in an SAE article some time ago. Right now I can't find it but i'm sure an extensive search can locate it. ANyway, here's the quote, "The '05 Mustang GT's torsional rigidity figure was 21,000 NM/degrees, which was more than the McLaren F1, and almost DOUBLE that of the BMW E46 M3 and the last 911 Turbo. The 2010 version improved on that a bunch, and the 2011 incrementally improved again. The lack of flex in the chassis is a MAJOR contributor to solid handling and the feeling of solid construction."

 

[Liftedbronco]

it baffles me though, on that topic of handling as a result of structural ridgidity - that in the grand scheme of handling though, the mustangs still pale in comparison to any of those european cars. Though i understand its all tuning. Even a flexy frame can handle well under the right circumstances.

 

[pcdrj]

...the mustangs still pale in comparison to any of those european cars...

??? Boss Mustang out of the box outperforms an M3, 911, and several other euro plates on the track. Although the S197 is heavy it can be made to perform as well or better as anything with similar power to weight solid axle and all. I'm sure you're familiar with the following comparison. Keep in mind it's not even a Boss.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests...ang_gt_vs_2011_bmw_m3_comparison/viewall.html

 

[908ssp]

The Boss LS strengthens the frame in two places. They connect the K member to the radiator support and X brace the trunk pass through. I think Ford might be on to something.

 

[Shotokan1509]

The Boss LS strengthens the frame in two places. They connect the K member to the radiator support and X brace the trunk pass through. I think Ford might be on to something.

Hmm havent heard about the K to radiator, got any pics?

 

[Thekid760]

Not sure, but prob something like this:

Whiteline's.

 

[GeorgeInNePa]

The Boss LS strengthens the frame in two places. They connect the K member to the radiator support and X brace the trunk pass through. I think Ford might be on to something.

Is that any different from the 2011+ Z-brace on the normal GT?

 

[Chim-Chim]

it baffles me though, on that topic of handling as a result of structural ridgidity - that in the grand scheme of handling though, the mustangs still pale in comparison to any of those european cars. Though i understand its all tuning. Even a flexy frame can handle well under the right circumstances.

Seriously? I take it you don't track your car much?

I think most of us in this subforum have put the hurt on plenty of those european cars every time we hit the track.

 

[Cheyne]

Dean Martin built by car for SCCA Touring 3 and there was absolutly no need for any kind of stiffener. We did put in a plate on each side about 1/2 way between the wheels for jacking, but that is it. My car is a track only race car and in my class there are only two American cars. The 2011/12 Mustang V6 and the Cobalt SS. The rest are European and Japanese. In the rain at the Runoffs due to a problem on the grid I ended up starting last out of 18 and spotted the field a 30 second lead and finished 10th.

Cheyne